If Leads Are Not The Problem Then What Is

Your lot can be packed and your calendar can be full, yet sales still feel stuck. We sit down with Joe and Brandan from Velocity360 to unpack why shed dealers and portable building businesses plateau, and why the fix is usually not “more leads,” it’s a better sales operation underneath. When follow-up is inconsistent, quotes go out with no call behind them, and online buyers can’t get what they need fast, you end up paying for marketing that never gets a fair shot.

We dig into the sales velocity formula and the real bottleneck most teams ignore: human capacity. If a sales rep is buried in manual steps, they cannot respond quickly, nurture leads, and keep relationships warm. Velocity360’s approach uses automation to speed up first contact, improve response rate, and move people toward a real conversation without trying to “automate the relationship.” We also talk about how buyer behavior has changed, why so many shed sales originate online, and how a digitized sales process helps you win the shoppers who are researching quietly.

Then we get practical: the metrics you should track, the funnel benchmarks that reveal where you’re leaking deals, and why quote follow-up is often the biggest missed opportunity. Joe and Brandan also share what they’ll be teaching at Shed Expo, including their talk on stopping wasted ad spend and converting digital shed leads before they ghost. RSVP NOW to receive a special gift at the Expo.

If you want better conversions, cleaner follow-up, and a sales process that feels like concierge service, hit play, then subscribe, share this with a shed dealer friend, and leave a review so more builders can find it.

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This episodes Sponsors:
Studio Sponsor: Shed Pro

Shed Suite
First Choice Metals
Challenger
LuxGuard

Transcript

INTRO 0:00

Hello and welcome back to the Shed Geek Podcast. A quick word about our studio sponsor. One thing the team at Shed Pro has been hearing lately from Shed businesses is that many of them aren't struggling because of lack of demand. Things just kind of stall out. The lot is busy, but growth flattens, and it's not always obvious why. Usually it's something small. The website, the follow-up, how customers interact with you before they ever pick up the phone. So Shed Pro put something together called the Shed Sales Audit. It helps you get a clearer picture of where you might be losing people. It takes a couple of minutes, and if you want to dig deeper, their team will walk you through it. Here's the thing nine times out of ten, the fix isn't more leads. It's a tighter operation underneath. That's the rest of the Shed Pro platform. Configurator, point of sale, RTO contracts, inventory, deliveries, and dealer tools, all in one place. From website lead to final delivery, one clean workflow. Start with the audit at shedpro.co forward slash shed geek. Thank you, Shed Pro, for being our Wednesday studio sponsor and for building something that helps the industry.

Welcome And How To Connect

Shannon 1:16

Okay, welcome back to another episode of the Shed Geek Podcast. Just a few things uh joined obviously here today by the guys uh over at Velocity360. You guys know them, you love them, we do too. But before we get rolling, a few ways to stay plugged in with us. Give me a call over here at 618-309-3648. Uh email us at info@shed geek.com or just go check out our website and fill out a lead form at www.shedgeek.com. Um check us out on the Shed Sales Professionals page and for the playing community who want to call in, 330-997-3055. Uh maybe you have a playing community friend who would want to listen to the podcast. And uh we do have a lot of those. Matter of fact, we have about four to five hundred a week who actually call in and listen, and we're very excited that you're willing to take your time and go down and listen to something that we have to say or something our guest has to say, and we hope it's entertaining for you and also informative here at the Shed Geek Podcast. Here we are in year number six. My old friends are back. Uh Joe, gosh, I guess it was season two or three we first talked. Now here we are in year six, uh, doing business together. And I'm telling you, there are some gems. I just want to throw this out there, Joe and Brandan, before we even get started. There are some gym podcasts that are back over the last couple of years that we have done, people that we're still continuing to talk to and work with and partner with for future endeavors. Go back and listen to some of those. Because, like, trust me, some of those guys are going to end up making the splash just the same way that Joe and Branda did uh the last couple of years in the industry. And kudos to you guys. You just have been absolutely excellent people to work with, to hang out with, to talk to. Um, can't say enough good things about Velocity 360 from over here at Shed Geek. We thank you for all that you guys do for the industry.

Joe 3:12

Thanks for having us. Thanks for helping us get in to the industry.

Shannon 3:18

It's awesome. It's a cool industry. Full industry, right? Like it's really fun.

Joe 3:23

Yeah, it's a really fun industry. Yeah.

Shannon 3:25

You you and you guys and you guys have done great. So, what are you up to now? Now we're looking at what it's June now. We got the expo rolling around here before too long. Uh, obviously, you guys have made it onto the scene. You're doing well. You've

Door To Door Lessons

Shannon 3:40

uh you brought on a lot of clients. Very excited for you guys and to see your success in that, just knowing both of your stories individually. And I mean, all the way back from your time selling door to door. I got to thinking, we just took a trip to Jackson and I was like, man, why is nobody doing the door-to-door shed things? I guess a couple of people are. And I was like, how discouraging would it be to just have the door slammed in your face? And I thought about you guys, and I was like, I was like, man, you guys have just like you did it. Like you just you crossed the divide, you figured out how to make it work. Um I don't know. I maybe we shouldn't even go down that rabbit hole of door-to-door shed sales. I bet you guys have all kinds of thoughts on it.

Joe 4:21

But uh let's talk about it. We can make a training program one day.

Shannon 4:25

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, let's talk about velocity. Let's talk about what you're doing, what you're finding out, what you're seeing in the industry, what's new.

Shed Expo Plans And Community

Joe 4:34

Yeah, no, sure. Yeah, we're gonna be at Shed Expo uh booth 1225. So come on by. Um there's uh there's a link, and we're gonna get anybody who's gonna RSVP prior to the event um a special gift. Um, we'll throw that link somewhere in the description. Um that's all right. It's our it's our website slash shed expo slash 2026 slash RSVP. So velocity360crm.com/ shed expo/ 2026/ RSVP. It's a mouthful. Uh go click the link instead of trying to type all that in. Um I want to give you guys a special gift if you're able to make it out there. Um, we're gonna be right across from Shed Pro and I'm sure Shed Geek will be around and um some of our friends. Um yeah, there's a there's a lot going on. We we you know we're we're joining the industry coming from a perspective of how do we help the most possible people, you know. Are we say this on so many podcasts, but we just really care about small business owner, really the privately held business. I mean, at the end of the day, it's probably all privately held businesses because we have some larger businesses we work with, but the trend is that they're generally Christian owned. Um, they care about couples, a lot of family businesses as well.

Brandan 5:45

A lot of brothers, yeah.

Joe 5:46

You know, they're creating legacies and generational wealth for so many people. It's like it's just a really cool group to be a part of. They always treat their employees well, like, you know, like I've just never met, I haven't met yet. And I'm sure again, I'm sure there's somebody out there, but um, who doesn't treat their team well, their clients well, and just want to want to steward and build relationships with everybody they meet on their lot or online. And um, you know, coming into the industry like that, it's it's so fun. And you know, there's areas we're trying attempting to help people just because of how the world is moving more technologically, you know.

Brandan 6:22

Absolutely softwares and if I could just gush on the industry for a second, too. Um, yesterday was Father's Day, right? So happy Father's Day to all the fathers out there. Happy Father's Day. Yeah, happy Father's Day, absolutely. It's such a family-friendly industry, and um the community is so small, it's like everybody knows each other, a lot of family businesses. And that was the thing that struck me the most about going to the Shed X school last year was seeing like a thousand Amish people and all their wives and children, and just like cool, fun hangout spots for the families to hang out. Yeah. Um, so I'm gonna see if like I'm a father for the first time. We've got a baby, he's gonna be like about a year old at that time, see if they can come too. Um, but yeah, just super nice people who do a great thing and want to help other people too. Um, I uh Joe's building like kind of an outdoor back backyard office type thing right now, and I'm like getting ready to build something similar or at least get a storage shed because I got all these new toys and stuff for the kid. Got a dirt bike, you know, I got I gotta take care of a lawn now, right? Like home homeowner, like things are like responsibilities as a family um are growing. I think that makes the need for things like this grow also. Plus, like being in software, we get to work from home. Uh, I think you saw a lot more of that after COVID. And that that just really kind of exploded the demand for this industry as well. Um, so it's just really cool to see how all those things work together and to help an industry that's full of good people that help people.

Shannon 7:47

Uh, for sure. You know, when you use the word community, which I was writing down just to make sure that I remembered to say something about it, you know, that is that is really this industry in a nutshell. I mean, like you can be talking to someone uh in in Pennsylvania and they've got a cousin that's in Illinois or down in, you know, uh Kentucky or something like that. It's amazing, even whenever you start to uh I just want to say like if you do a good job in the industry, they tell everybody. If you do a bad job in the industry, like somehow everybody still finds out. Whether everybody's actually doing the telling of it, I don't know. But uh the uh my Amish friends, I hope will get a kick out of this. I like to tell them all the time that we have the internet, we have technology, but man, you guys can sure spread information quicker than we could ever imagine. Um it's way faster than we can do on Facebook or a website. I don't know what networks they're using. Uh but they were screen fine. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's amazing. And uh they are, they are. I mean, yeah, there's a lot of technology that is crossing over. You know, we were, you know, I'm not gonna do a plug here, but we were building like a little phone system or whatever. And I think I told you guys we're working with a developer a lot more now. We were talking about trying to like build out that phone system. We actually we did build it out, and we went ahead and submitted it to like that first client that asked us to, and we thought this might be something we can sell. That'll be for another day, another time. Matter of fact, we'll talk with you guys on it. We'll figure out where we can connect with uh the CRM and tie everything into velocity. But uh no, it it really is, you know, Brandan. It it's community driven. We've always been thankful for that. It's uh it's a small, it's a big, small industry, you know, but everybody's connected. And uh so because of that, like uh what do you feel like your experience has been? Like really, even just since like the the last expo to this year, it feels like you've had good success. You've met a lot of people and made a lot of connections. I mean, where do you want to take this thing? Where what are the things that you're most excited about? What do you want the people to know? I'm gonna I'm gonna hit you with 30 questions and let you answer one of them.

AD-SHED SUITE 9:59

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Sales Velocity And Lead Capacity

Joe 10:54

I think what we want people to know, um, I think we have so there's a couple things. Like we've got, I'm going on the website right now, clicking on this. I think we've got 20, almost 20 case studies. Let's see, one, two, I think we've got 13 um on the website right now. And there's like seven more, I think, in production or something. Um you know, that'll they'll be coming out pretty soon. And I just uh our heart is that every client gets a case study. And what I hopefully what that delivers is that we're a quality first approach, and we would rather go a little slower and growing the business, a little slower and onboarding. We, you know, we market a certain number of days, and we might even extend that a little bit um just to make sure it's always done right. So, people have good expectations. But that's our goal. Our goal is that every person that we talk to have a similar experience. And the outcome, right, is an improvement on their sales velocity formula, right? So, sales velocity formula, if you listen to the other shows, is leads times average conversion rate or close, right? So, somebody in a Facebook group asks, What's conversion mean? It means they bought, okay, for us. Okay, average people who buy, right? So, out of 100, what percentage of them buy um a shed or a building or a gazebo or whatever you're selling, furniture, um, you know, times the average, you know, price over sales cycle length, so how quickly it takes for them to buy. And that creates a velocity, means like revenue per unit of time, right? So, per month, per year, you can change you know, to be whatever you want. Um and what we want to have happen every time is that uh the total leads that your team can process, so there's a limit, right? So, if we want to get real detail, there's a limit to your sales and it's human operational capacity. It's called sales operations, at least when it comes to the sales part now. Operations when it comes to building the sheds is not what I'm talking about, but that's generally what people associate with it. So, sales operations is the amount of time or like all of the process steps for a salesperson to close a lead, essentially. Okay, get the contract sent, get it signed, cash collection, all of that. Okay. So, it usually starts from lead capture, goes to contract and payment. Okay. So, your sales rep can only process so many leads before they are just at 24 hours a day. Which they're probably not working for you anymore if they're, you know, at that point. And so anyway, you have this limit, and so what we want to go up is that they can process about five times more leads. So, if they used to process 30 leads, now they can do 150 with velocity. And that's really valuable and something we've never said on one of these shows, um, because it means uh you don't need to, you know, you just don't need to hire maybe as many people who have to get trained, which is a really important thing. Um and you can scale up your marketing budget a lot easier without worrying about leads not getting contacted and kind of wasting them. Um our whole I think a big part of the value prop is literally convert more leads with less time because why would why if you have tons of leads that aren't getting nurtured really well, why would you increase the marketing budget and scale your chaos? Um, don't spend more on marketing and just close more of the sales, you know? That's that's actually a lot easier. And people generally don't think that's super possible because they're not they're learning maybe about sales ops or have never thought, what is my sales operation start to finish? What's even every step that's supposed to happen? And then we talk to a lot of people and they don't even know what the right process should be, and so we're able to help them with that. Um so we want lead capacity to go up, right? And we want conversion or close rate, right? Percentage of people that buy to go up as well. Okay. And so if you break out close rate into a few categories, okay, these are generally the categories that we recommend people track. Response rate. Okay. We we see at least that's our baseline for our clients. We want to see 60% of leads responding with our automations every time. Okay. And our strategy is not to replace salespeople, it's to make them more efficient. Every client we work with, they're really good at talking to people. We just did a poll on Facebook and you know, we had like 40 people respond, and we're just we're just asking, what's the number one reason people buy from you other than a quality product? And 52% of them are saying, which we totally agree with this, because we and we sold door to door, it's all relationship-based. I said that the number one reason, those 52% said the number one reason we move forward or people move forward with us is because they like us. It's a relationship-based sale. And I think uh that first piece where there's some automations going out, I think this industry's there's a there's a large majority of the industry, fit probably 52%, if we're taking the sample size, that struggles with if I automate anything, uh, I'm gonna lose the relationship piece. And I just want everybody to hear this that our strategy is not to automate somebody away, it's to help qualify the lead and get them on the phone with you. And then you do the thing you've been doing for 40 years or 20 years or 10 years or however long you've been in business doing you know, shed sales, right? We just want your people to have more conversations because the problem with the response rate is like the industry average that we see is like 20 to 30 percent, because there's not enough follow-up, because there's not enough time to follow up, because the sales operations limit is causing us not to follow up in a way of intentionality. We're not to be able, we're not able to be intentional with every lead, call them a few times, text them a few times, or email them a few times because we're so busy with everybody else. And so what ends up happening is you can build more relationships.

Automation That Protects Relationships

Shannon 16:32

Um so it almost begs the question, you know, when like what was it we used to say? Like uh like I I'm not I'm not struggling here. I am a fan of unmanned lots. I'm not gonna say that I'm not uh I'm I hate unmanned lots. I think if you do it the right way, I think they work really well. But for the longest time, you know, there was like this thought that like an unmanned lot may be uh a worse experience if there's no one there. If there's no one there, kind of like if you don't answer an email, uh if you don't respond to an email, it's a worse experience than if you respond to it uh through automation. Right? So, like I I'm trying to tie this into where like the mindset is kind of like I wrote this down and I've been harping on this for probably a year on the podcast, so I'm sure people are tired of me beating this dead horse. But you know, like we often sell the way we buy. And that can be a mistake because we'll only buy a certain way, but people buy from a variety of different ways, and you've got to be able to reach all of the people. And some people want a quick response. Yes, some people want that authentic response, but I think you're giving them that authentic response because you're training with their salespeople to find out what that natural language should be until it's time for that person to get a rebound.

Joe 17:53

It's what it's however you want it, right? So, we when we when we do onboarding with people, it's like, what do you want it to say? How do you normally respond? Or give us like some messages and we'll help you with content if we know it works, because it's all about making it making them like whatever your best response would have been, sending that just happening automatically because there is a time and a heat to the lead, and after 60 seconds, like the statistics show that you're way less likely to get a response and a close. Um, and so it's marrying that relationship with statistics, right? Like a lot of people, and it's not wrong, it's just the way that it is, and are not data driven in how they run their business. There's a lot of data analytics that are hard to come by that we've we do solve for people. We've talked about that a lot. We can talk about it more. Um, but when you have the data, what I always tell clients is like you're a smart business owner, you've had this business for a very long time. You probably understand very easily operational, you know, turnaround times, lead times. You get it. Like if you have like data, where's the bottleneck, right, in your operations? Well, we need three more builders. It's like it's the same thing in sales operations. And so what I'm trying to do is educate um the industry on sales ops and operations are very similar. They are very similar and start thinking about your sales ops the same way you think about your building ops. Where it's a it's just uh it's an assembly line, right? And the same thing needs to happen every time.

Shannon 19:18

Right.

Joe 19:19

Best practices, right? You know, you use the right type of screw, you say the right type of language. Does that make sense? So, it's like it's the same thing and it's just sales, it's just communicate, it's more communication driven rather than a spec sheet driven, you know, process.

Brandan 19:37

To borrow and add on to that metaphor, um, I've often heard like if you give a boy a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Shannon 19:43

Yeah.

Brandan 19:44

Right? And if you're trying to use a nail and a hammer when you need to use a screw, it's not gonna go well. Um, so to kind of merit your two points that you're making here with a quick anecdote. Um, you know, I'm 36, turning 37, kind of that millennial age where uh, especially if I'm an online shopper, right? I want to do all my research. I want to, I want to maybe text with them or instant message through their website, do a bunch of research, probably have a bunch of tabs open. I don't want to visit the lot, and I don't even want to talk to anybody until I'm pretty close to making my decision. And that type of online digital lead buyer, like you know, my age bracket, is totally different, I think, than what a lot of the older school generation is used to. Um, so if they're just treating every buyer like it's a nail, like, oh, we have to meet in person, right? That's how we like to sell. Man, they could be missing 50 to 75% of the leads. In fact, I was looking up some stats earlier. Uh, about 62% of all shed sales uh originate online. Actually, so now it's more than half, uh, or kind of more like me, where they'd rather do some research. And so the anecdote I heard from somebody this morning, he said, uh they got an online lead that used like a 3D configurator, like Shed Pro was pretty interested, built out a building, and he watched his salesperson call them, introduce himself, get hung up on right away. And he said, Watch, send that person a quote anyway. Email them a little bit, massage it a little. And he's like, No, no, no, no, they're not interested. And he was just being really stuck in his ways. And he's like, Okay, fine, I'll do it. So, he emailed him, sent him a quote, got a response that same day, ended up making the sale. They just they just weren't ready to talk on the phone or build a relationship yet. They just needed a little bit uh more online. So that that's I think kind of the heart of what you two are getting at is that uh buying behavior is changing.

AD-FIRST CHOICE METALS 21:30

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Joe 22:33

Right. And so, we have a we have a handshake sales process and we're trying to sell digital leads, for example. So, like a big problem is people spend all this money and they do the handshake sales process online, which doesn't work. You know. And so, people have to digitize their sales process. So, it ends up being a big shift. And I think what people find is they most people, when they talk to us, they would say they wish they would have heard about us sooner because they just didn't realize, right? Like we often don't take vitamins, right? Vitamins, everyone knows they should take vitamins. We don't take vitamins because we're not in pain. And we take ibuprofen or Tylenol or whatever, you know, when we're in pain, right? Like we're in pain, toothache, whatever. You go, you go solve that quick. And one of the things that is we want to be proactive thinkers as business owners, right? It would be a lot better to get ahead of the problem, maximize, you know, the efficiency, close a lot versus get a bunch of online leads that don't close. You know, it's not the leads because you know we have clients, and this is the highest that we see. We have clients close almost 50% of their online digital leads. Like it's crazy. Very nice. Very nice. Yeah.

Shannon 23:42

Um I wonder what how that compares to like most for anybody who's keeping up with that. I wonder that how that compares to the online traffic.

Joe 23:51

Yeah. So, on lot traffic does close in the 60s as well. So, like it's not about to me, it's not about which is better. It's about do all of the above. Right? Like if you can get them in person, they're a very high intent lead that's going to close probably two out of three, like are gonna close because you're so good at sales in person, right? And they show the heck up, which means they're buying a shed to soon.

Shannon 24:14

And proven which is better doesn't really matter anyway, to your point, Joe, because like if they're if they're success in both, then conquer both. Why not, why not the all the above approach, like you said?

Joe 24:26

Right. Exactly. And it's like if you have one person working the digital leads or multiple people, right, like just dedicated or certain time blocks of the day that you'll work the online leads, they close too. It's like, and they're starting to get to the point where it's again, some of these clients of ours, and again, that's like the top of the top, but like, you know, some clients are closed 20%, and that's pretty normal as well. Some of them the 30%, you know, some of them are still working towards that, you know, because it takes time, and you sometimes you have to you have to train all these people, right? Um, to follow up. Like we have a stat now, and I'll and I'll go back to the sales funnel, like breaking down the close rate of whatever EP

Quotes Follow Up And Benchmarks

Joe 25:01

should be. We have like a whole, you know, um breakdown of this now, all the percentages we recommend. Um, but we have found uh roughly 80% of quotes never get a call. You say you email a quote and the sales rep does not call that lead ever. You know? Um and it's so interesting. And so, this is a stat to tuck away if you're listening to this. Only 40%, this is high, only 40% of emails even get opened. And so what you're finding is that if only 20% of your leads get followed up with after estimate when they're so close to the close and decision, if you're not making a call, they may never have even seen, they never saw the email and they go with somebody else. Wouldn't you be upset? Because maybe they liked you, right? So 52% of you listening, let's just say, based off that sample case study, which may not be completely accurate, but let's just say 52% of everyone listening believes in the relationship and they send a quote and they never call the person, you know, and they don't even know you send a quote. You said you'd send a quote, they never saw it, it's in their spam. That's not relationship-based selling, right? That's missing out on the relationship. They feel like you never sent them a quote. And I have seen many a time where you know someone finally calls a lead after a week or two and they're like, hey, you don't call me again. You never sent me a quote and I bought with somebody else. Please do not call again. Because they lost trust because there was no follow-up on the quote, which is the opposite of what relationship-based selling is, right? And it's probably it something happened, they got busy, like, you know, it's like not intentional. And so the whole point is like, how would how do you want your sales operations assembly line, right? How do you want every client to feel every time? And we need to build that.

Brandan 26:50

Yeah, you want them to feel well taken care of, like that they got a quick response, they got helped quickly, their questions got answered, even if they're shopping at 8 p.m. on a Sunday, like you could still get them some of the information they need through automations and then prepare them to be ready to have a phone call or a meeting the next day. And that's the other thing is like these online leads, um, you know, they're earlier in their buying decision, right? If they show up, they're like pretty much ready to buy. But if they're just doing their research online and kind of browsing, well, that's gonna be a much more transactional, competitive situation than somebody who shows up on your on your lot. And uh, and you can't just send them a quote and be like, well, if they really want to shed, they'll get back to me. It's like, no, they won't. They'll get back to whoever's following up with them. Like, they're probably gonna go with the first person they have a meaningful conversation with.

Shannon 27:37

I think it's such an important like metaphor uh to be able to point out, like you did, that relationship-based selling in a in an otherwise uh impulsive, like this is to me, this is an impulsive buy. Relationship-based selling goes way farther with home building, post-frame building, some of the things we're talking about even before we came on the podcast here today. To me, uh trying to build a relationship on an impulse buy is very hard because a lot of the shed sales happen very quickly. But I think you guys have already pointed this out. Like, that doesn't mean that they have not researched and researched and researched and went online and looked. That's what we talk about brand authority a lot. Like I have uh like I have someone that we've talked to recently that we've really tried to talk them into rebranding, and they're like, Why uh, you know, I don't want to spend all of this, and it's like, gosh, I really wish we could uh I wish we could look into the future two or three years, whenever they end up saying, Well, I should have just done this back then. And it's like, right. We were saying that, but we understand that that looks like we're trying to upset you because it costs more to start over again versus taking the wrap off your truck or whatever, but you're losing you're losing SEO, you're losing brand authority, domain authority, whatever it is, because you're not in the in the working in the digital side the way it needs to be. Right. To Brandan's point, people are starting here. Like you want you want to be able to capture them with your personal uh relationship, I agree, uh, at the right time, but they're starting and they're finding out about your company before they call you.

Brandan 29:08

Yeah, you can't start them out on second or third base. Like you gotta get your at bats in, you gotta get to get on base first. You can't just start out at second or third base.

Shannon 29:17

Yeah.

Joe 29:17

Yeah. And you know, this is where the stats come in, right? Um, you know, marketing, it's like that everything needs to lead to a lead, right? That's marketing. If the stats are not improving your impressions or your click-through rate and all of that, and if it's not being talked about, you know, that's a problem because you've got it, yeah, that's what all that's supposed to do, right? Are we losing? Are we improving impressions, click-through rate, lead form submissions, 3D submissions, you know, Facebook form submissions, etc. Um, and then it's like for us, like when I'm saying the 60% rate, like it's usually a 2x what you're currently doing of number of people who answer who talk to you, right? And there is no relationship if they don't talk to you. And so there's nothing wrong, like relationship relationship-based selling is the best way to sell. It is, it's just it just is. And you can't that's the best use of your time. What's not the best use of your time is calling and texting people who are unresponsive, you know, over and over and over again to maybe get a response. It's important, and they will never respond if you don't do it. But when we talk about increasing sales ops capacity to where you can handle more like 300 leads, 150 leads instead of 30 or whatever. Um, all of those leads get nurtured at the same time. You know, I mean different times, but you get the idea. It's all happening, and we're funneling everybody to talk to you, which is the greatest use of your time and your skill is talking to people, is actually getting them the right quote, the right customization, building a relationship. So that's when we talk response rate, that's why that we're a response rate solution. Uh our marketing manager, Riley, um, she's wonderful, but she's doing these, you know, us versus a HubSpot versus uh go high level versus a marketing, you know, you know, company does a go high level add-on agency and all on all these different pipe drive, etc. Monday. And what are the differences? And she's like showing it to me today, and she was trying to find some of our stats. So, like, what's the what's the response rate floor that you get when you use HubSpot or go high level from a marketing company or all these things? She's like, hey, there's nothing on their website about response rates. And I'm like, that's what you need to show. That's the whole point. The whole point is that they're a tech that's not gonna solve the problem that you intimately that they like they're not getting it. Like they're an organization or a marketing or whatever software, they're not getting you the leads to respond to talk to you more, which is all you need. All you need is the leads to talk to you, and you've been doing this a long time. You're gonna close them.

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Joe 33:20

You're going to close them. You just need to talk to people more.

Shannon 33:22

Part of the reason we were excited to partner with you guys. I mean, like, we've we've been down this road. We've seen what some of this does, and we saw the results that you're getting. It's just been amazing. You know, I wrote down on here earlier, marketing to save you money. I mean, like, that's one of our biggest pitches, Joe, is like we don't like, I'm not saying we're gonna like mark like uh work ourselves out of work, but some of these things are one-time cost that we're doing, some of them are monthly. Our idea is to like get you uh uh branded so well that you're in front of people that you can like turn your marketing like an like a knob. I mean, like if you're not using your Google ads and your and your meta ads to like move them up and down whenever business is slow, uh, but then having the backbone to be able to, if you've even got that many leads coming in, having the backbone with the with a velocity uh 360 CRM to be able to handle those leads. So, now you start to like really control your environment. When you say operations to your point is down because we lost a guy in a bay, or maybe we're not a large company that has all the automations, you know, like some of these guys that's been on the show recently, you know. Uh uh how can how can we just be more effective? Well, you you do that by intentional growth. And I think you can have intentional growth when you have a velocity 360 CRM because you can you can kind of like manage that flow. You're saying 150 roughly. Are you kind of putting that out there as like a uh uh as like a statement, saying like roughly 150 leads, or does it vary based off certain companies?

Joe 34:55

I think it definitely varies. I mean, that's that's a random, you know, I I generally you should you should be able to 3x number of leads a person works. Um, you know, and again, that also depends on your current systems a little bit. Like there, there are caveats. I mean, if somebody's working 100 leads now, 300 might be a lot, but they'll all get, I mean, we you can scale it to that. But if you're getting 60% of 300 now to respond, you know, that's 180 people responding. I don't know if that's in a week or in a month, but that is a lot of people to follow up with, of course. Um, and once they do respond, what we want to track next is did the the rep make an outbound attempt? So, there's a big list of people that actually got called again, like they got a response, did they get reached out to you again? And then we're also able to auto-track did the was there a second response, you know? So, if there's a second response, it moves into a warm lead. And then did they get a quote? Did was there a quote sent? Did they follow up on the quote? Did the quote close? Right. So, those are generally what you need to track um to know if you have a good sales process. So, you know, a hundred percent of leads that respond should get a touch, and you should get about eighty percent of those people to respond back if you had a good touch, or at least we're within a good amount of time, like next day within 24 hours. Really, you want it to be the same day. Um and then you know, you want 80% of those people to get quoted. Um, you know, and and that doesn't happen a lot for most people. We're usually seeing an industry average of like between 20 and 40 percent for quotes actually sent to people. So, you got a hundred people who've responded twice now, right? Um and your sales rep's actively communicating, but they're not getting them a quote. That's a big drop off. And then the close rate, the close rate from there is often, you know, 20% of quotes maybe close. Um, but we have we have companies doing that much higher, 80%. So we say your baseline, if you get a quote to somebody, you know, you should be closing one out of two, uh 50%. And so you essentially should have 60% of leads responding, 100% of them reached out to you manually by a sales rep after a response. You should have 80% of them respond a second at a time, 80% of those people should get a quote, and 50% of those quotes close. And so it ends up being of all of your digital leads, and I'm going off of 3D configurators, Facebook's much lower, about 19.2%. So 19 out of 100, you know, 3D estimates that you're getting actually should buy if you have a really dialed in sales process. And if you listen to this and you don't even know your numbers, you can't manage what you can't measure, right? And I'm not that's right, that's not shameful to not know your numbers, it's just it is what it is. And if you don't know your numbers, you cannot improve. You have no snapshot.

Shannon 37:22

You gotta start somewhere, yeah.

Joe 37:24

That's right. You can't just can't look back and see the progress, which is so valuable. And again, when you have these things, when you see your quote sent is 80%, but only five percent of quotes close, it's like very simple to know what to work on, you know, and you get that number to 15, you've tripled your revenue in that example. Go ahead, Brandan. Sorry.

Brandan 37:47

Yeah, yeah. Um it kind of goes back to the painkiller versus the vitamin analogy that you were giving, right? Um, when you're working online leads that are so competitive, just to kind of show what the gap is, like you said, here's the best practices, what to shoot for. And like you said, most people either don't know, or what I hear pretty commonly, and this is like in say a smaller situation or a big situation, but I'm thinking of uh a couple of owners, one or two salespeople, one or two locations where they may only have 30 to 75 leads in a month. Like that is still enough leads that they're dropping the ball regularly enough where it hurts. Like I was I was thinking of a dealer that I talked to today, and they're like, Yeah, we might close 10%, you know, definitely not 19% of their shed pro leads. In fact, they're like, we saw one where they got pretty far along with us, and then we saw that their name popped up with another dealer for the same type of building that we sell, and somebody else got that lead because our guy didn't follow up well enough with it. Um, so even with just like a handful, you know, 30 to 60 leads a month, with only one or two salespeople, that's enough to need a system like this and to see meaningful improvement in conversions. Because when people start spending money on a 3D configurator or online leads and a new website and SEO and all of the above, right, that's when they realize, wow, we have a lot more leads than we have sales operational capacity. And the trap that they think is, well, if we keep doing it the way we've always done, I'm gonna have to hire like three or four or five more guys, and that's a lot of salaries and a lot of commissions. And then I'll have to lay them all off when it gets slow in December. And that's not good for anybody. It's like, well, you may as well just make sure your one or two salespeople eat really well. Make sure their kids aren't skinny, right? And make sure that they get they can they can process a lot of leads by having a good system for them, and then you'll get a ton of Google reviews from your happy customers, and then you can hire new people uh sustainably and not have to lay them all off later.

Shannon 39:45

I don't know about you, but when I was growing up, Brandan, skinny to my grandma meant unhealthy. You know, that boy's that boy's not eating that. So, Joe, you'd be in trouble around my grandma, buddy. You're just not eating enough.

Joe 39:58

Yeah, you know, all this to say, you know, um our whole heart and intent on this and sharing analytics um and why we're doing it, you know, it's a big differentiator, like HubSpot, like all these companies don't do that. And the reason we're doing it is we want to steward the relationships well and have people have expectations of where their sales process should be and what it should look like. Um because there's just a lot of opportunity on the table, you know, for all these wonderful business owners out there, these sales teams, you know, there's just there really is. And it's just a modernizing industry that just needs to, instead of fighting the technology, just take it by the horns and think, look, I it's not about, you know, um automating people away or

Stop Spamming Use The Kill Switch

Joe 40:41

anything like that. It's about how do I help more people? How do I hire more? How do I grow more? How do I be more efficient so I can retire? You know, whatever it is for the goal, it's like the software is just a tool. It's about how you use it that makes it good or bad, right? If you use it in a way to spam people, like yeah, you're probably gonna get some negative responses and we're gonna push back to like help you not do that. If this is their first time, like we're gonna just have us write the content, you know?

Brandan 41:05

Like just add-on in in there too, um, and then keep going. But I think there's a big misconception where people think, oh, we're just gonna spam the heck out of everybody and keep going until they buy or to until they die, or they say, Never talk to me again. And again, like the point is if they were not gonna respond for your first eight, nine, ten messages, those may as well be automated, right? It may as well be what you're gonna say on your best day anyway. And then when they do respond, we hit the kill switch automatically. Like there's a kill switch, so they stop getting automated messages. I think that's something we didn't touch on. Same thing, like if somebody already left a Google review, you don't need to keep sending them text and email reminders, hey, leave a Google review. So, like when those actions are taken, um, the workflows are over, and then it is that's where the relationship building starts.

Shannon 41:51

Yeah, the idea is no things to bother them, but just to be consistent, Joe. Like it's just to be consistent. I think you said something earlier that really hit me. It's like, you know, we're relationship-based, we really want to take care of our customer. Well, true. Like the gosh, I almost want to like steal that line from you, you know, in our in our in our marketing quiz. Uh, because like if you're really doing what's best for the customer, then you're gonna do genuinely what's best for the customer, not just what's best for you. I understand you're in business, but like you've got to meet the customers where they are. And we just find ourselves in a really weird place, even I've been I've maybe said this for three years, and I don't think we're really like out of the out of the wood yet, that like we're in this weird time and space where because of the price of the product that we sell, you have to almost perfect the on-lock process, whether it be the walk-up, the way it looks, facing your buildings, doing all the stuff. And then you've got to also perfect the the digital landscape. And part of that includes your website, your domain authority, your brand authority, your Google ad, your Facebook ad, your, your CRM, like your what does your process look like completely? Your 3D configurator. Like, you know, I mean, I have I can't say how many things I've sold that I wrote down on a notebook piece of paper and sent it into the manufacturer years ago. That that's still happening today. That that still gets the job done, don't get me wrong. But what does it say for a customer whenever they see like your brand uh uh represented correctly in every aspect, whether it be digitally or when they show up to the lot. You don't want a beautiful website when they show up to the lot, it looks yikes, right? Like you know, I don't know, but you don't want the opposite effect either, where you've got this beautiful, you know, like like like storefront and your your website looks rough, your follow up process is kind of like I'll get to it when I can. And then and then you and then you defend that by saying, I'm gonna get myself in trouble here today. But you defend that by saying, Well, I don't want them to think that I'm not a real person. So that's why I don't think. That that the automation works, and it's like, well, I'll tell you what, they don't think you're a person at all if there's no response. I'm not even sure if you're a legit company.

Joe 44:09

That's right. They start to lose trust in you actually unintentionally because you're too busy, you know, or whatever. And honestly, like some some of us, we just gotta also just, you know, say say the truth that we just don't like to call people and follow up because we feel like we're bothering them. And therefore, we don't follow up and we don't quote unquote bother them, which is not bothering them if you're being very nice and polite and helpful. Um, but you might have that in your head. We have a client who was just like that, and the system now follows up for her, and she's up a lot. You know, I think she grew 20% in the first 90 days, and it's just like sometimes you need tech to do things for you, you know, because you just don't have the you just can't it's hard, it's hard to do it for yourself, you know, because maybe yeah, you wouldn't fall up 14 times, but if it did happen, you would sell more and you'd have more relationships and more happy customers than if you didn't. It's what's the goal of this business, by the way?

Shannon 45:01

The question is, are you bothering them, Joe? Are you bothering them or are you making sure to serve them? I think we've got to get I think you've got to come to that conclusion in your head.

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Control The Controllables

Joe 46:42

Yeah. And so the other piece of this too, so a really good piece of advice. We used to hear this all the time when we were doing door-door sales. You just want to control the controllables, right? You can there's a vast majority of life is out of your control. Like the circumstances that happen to you, when it rains, all of these things that, you know, it impact buyer behavior. You know, uh straight-of-formes, like you can you can go through all the things that are completely out of your control that do affect you. And then, you know, so that's life, life's 10% what happens, it's 90% how you react, right? So, you control the controllables. You can control how you react to things, and you can control what your website looks like, you know, you can control what your lot looks like. Like when I was going door to door selling, you know, I would, I would want to look good. You know, I would want to wear a nice polo, you know, some decent looking shorts, you know, smell nice. Because not because I thought wearing a t-shirt versus a polo would make or break the sale. I just wanted to control the controllables to never be, I never wanted to have something that I could control be the reason someone didn't move forward, right? And so, if that's a good website or a good lot or a good t-shirt or whatever it was, because you know, if you if you go up knock on somebody's door and you got tatters in your t-shirt, you know, they might judge you. Right? It's the same thing you're saying there. And so, the whole point is like control the controllables. Respond to everybody. Call everybody who responds to you, quote everybody who's interested in the shed. Follow up on that quote out of a concierge mentality that, hey, I sent you that quote. Did you get it in your email? Well, let me help you find it for you really quick. So, I can know it can go to spam and that can be frustrating for you. It's all about how do I make you have a great experience versus me, me, me getting the sale. It doesn't matter, you know. Like it doesn't matter like about me. It's just like, can I help you? And so, the basic thought is um if you help as enough people get what they want, you get what you want. You know, and that's what we're trying to do at Velocity. We're just trying to help people get what they want. What they want is a uh is their analytics to be tracked, revenue uh to close. They want to be profitable, right? And they want to, you know, enjoy time with their family, basically, right? And like and good software implemented well, so you know, in a way that actually solves problems, at least for what we're doing, sales operations, right? Um, leads to that, which is the end goal. You know, I was talking to someone yesterday. Like, I want my kids to take over the business. It's happening a lot right now. And he's like, I want to leave them in the best place possible, and everything right now is in my head. And how do I transfer that? It's like, well, you put it, you put it all into a sales ops process software like ours, and it just happens. And now when you transfer, the best things you used to say and do, the whole process is laid out, and your kids take over. And they get to you get to leave a legacy for the rest of the time they own that business, which could might be multi-generational for a lot of these clients. So, it's just like that all anyway, that stuff just gets me super excited and like want to jump around and help people.

Shannon 49:30

It's the relationship side, it's the relationship side. You get to know these people, so you get to know their kids too, you know, and like you watch them grow up. I mean, I've watched Cameron grow up over at Summit Portable Buildings with Irvin for like years now. And like, like the guys now, whenever I go over there, I first showed up, he was mowing on the zero turn, and I was like, is he old enough to do that? I feel like I wouldn't put my child on the zero turn, and like he knew how to run it better than I did uh uh from after watching him. And then like you start watching him build sheds, and then it comes full circle where like I go over there and he's in a bay now and he's running seemingly running a crew, running a lot of the stuff. Uh and it is very personal to you when you get to know people like that. Uh and you want to see them do a good job, you want to see good work. You know, you said the famous Zig quote, you know, to help others get what they want to get what you want. You know, like what is what is uh I'm gonna ask you this because we're 40 minutes in and we both have a three o'clock. Uh so I know we're gonna wrap up pretty soon. But what is what

Legacy Faith And Serving Owners

Shannon 50:30

does Joe want? What does Brandan want? What are the things that you want when you help others uh get what you want? Uh uh just to do a good job. Uh is it to leave a legacy for your own children? Is it to uh to uh start a I believe people buy from people that they trust, and I think when people know your intentions and who you are and what you stand for, I think that's important too. So, like I know you guys, I know your Christian roots. Uh Joe, you know, I know you guys did door-to-door Bible sales. If there's ever been a harder job out there, is like you're not just selling door to door, but now you're selling a Bible while the Gideons are out here giving away for free.

Joe 51:08

And uh you know there was some educational stuff too, to be fair. Yeah, yeah, okay. But there's a whole lot of children's Bible series, though.

Brandan 51:18

There's also Amazon and there is so much online competition. Um so, I talked about this a little bit on the podcast uh last week, actually, local one, where the whole point of that door-to-door books selling thing, it was not to sell as many books as possible. The thing that they said it was to build character in young people. And uh I was not uh saved at that time. So, I was like very much excited about like self-improvement, me, me, me. I want to get better, I want to sell more, I want to be able to graduate debt-free. Um, but the cool thing was there were so many great Christian role models in that company who talked about their faith all the time, helping people, serving people. I finally, slowly but surely, listened to when God was knocking at my door and realized what he was trying to tell me, which is the world does not revolve around me. Like helping and serving other people uh is really where it's at. And that's uh where I think work can be a form of ministry and like a way to expand God's kingdom, especially when we're helping Christian business owners win more. You know, like I'll say that all the time. Like we want to help David, not Goliath. Like, we're not out here helping Lowe's and Home Depot. Like we want to help the father sit down with a son who's running the business with his brothers, um, who has you know a fourth kid on the way, and one of them has some expensive medical bills. Like, we want to help those people have peace of mind and help them win more.

Shannon 52:36

The residual effect of helping those companies goes way farther and creates a ripple farther than what we'll ever see, Joe. Exactly.

Joe 52:43

Yeah, yeah. And I think a lot of those companies, you know, there might even be 80 locations or 100 locations, like some of our clients. It's just like all the people they employ and hire too. It's not just the owners, it's just there's just this huge ripple effect. And you know, what do what do I want? I want to love God and love people, like to put it as simply as possible. You know, um, you know, helping others do what they what they want, believe in themselves is is so valuable. Um, I think I've got like a vision statement somewhere that goes something like this. Uh you know, we believe in a world where the vast majority of people wake up every day knowing what they do is valuable. Like if that could happen, you know, where the vast majority of people wake up every day believing that what they do in their life is valuable, like that's what I want. Um, I think there's a lot of, you know, uh social media and content and all these things, which is probably why a lot of these uh you all listening to this do not like technology. Um it really rips people away from their families and you know can create a um comparison effect where there's just this constant depression and upset um from all of these things because they are, you know, a lot of these things are designed to addict you because it's just like it's just like any other addiction. It pulls you away from God and all the things, right? And it's like I want people like there's such a huge amount of people in the world that are believe in nihilism where like they really believe that like their life doesn't matter and there's no impact, you know. I always just come back to like there's a Billy Graham story, which everybody knows about, but there's a guy named uh you know Graham. Um can't remember his last name right now, but it's this small town guy um went past the shoe store every day as he was on his way to church to be the local pastor or something. And uh one day he pops in the shoe store, evangelizes this young shoe clerk. The shoe clerk goes on to be a famous um pastor, and you kind of go down a couple lines of that ripple, and it's at some point the guy's the fourth or fifth pre preacher or whatever is preaching to Billy Graham. You know, everybody kind of knows Billy Graham because of you know how big of an impact he had, but uh but it all came with that really small town gentleman who's just like I'll just go share my faith today, you know? And so everybody's got impact. It's not about what you know the world deems as impressive or valuable, you know, it's about what God sees as valuable. And so that's sort of the lens that I'm always trying to do.

Shannon 55:02

You gotta have that to measure against, man. You gotta have something to measure against, other than just like the world, and like uh communication for me is the key, guys. Like communication for me is the key. That's why I started a podcast, that's why I've been listening to talk radio for 30 years, is like uh, you know, like I just love to hear people's stories and I love to hear how those things affect, you know, business or whatever. To me, it all gets thrown into uh uh uh one big junk drawer, uh if you will. And it just like I don't know where your religion uh and your life and your business, I don't I don't see how you keep those separate. It's just easier for me to just keep all those things together. It's also very difficult, by the way, to keep all of those things together. I think that's God's sense of humor. Uh but I just hey look, like you guys have just been uh you know, just been great since day one. Uh, you know, and you continue to be, you do good work, you're good people, you have a good mission. I know you guys got a meeting coming up. Well, it's we got four minutes till we're 10 10 minutes away from all our meetings. What do you want the industry to know? Uh, you know, obviously you're coming to the show. Final thoughts.

Shed Expo Talk And RSVP

Joe 56:17

Yeah, um, I'll just I'll just kind of end with this. Uh thanks for listening, and uh thanks for all our clients. And uh, you know, if this if this topic of how to close more digital leads, if you're if you're running ads right now or have a 3D configurator, um we'll be at the Shed Expo. I don't know if it's Wednesday or Thursday yet that we're gonna be having our talk, but we're gonna have an educational talk. The title is gonna be Stop Wasting Ad Spend, How to Convert Digital Shed Leads Before They Ghost To You. Um it's literally all about what we're talking about, um, the sales funnel, what should be happening at every stage of your sales funnel, um, what the percentages should be if you have a good sales process, and if you're not hitting these ways to actually improve that. So, if this is like, man, you want to solve that problem this year, um, please come to that. You know, it's completely free. And um, our goal is to be able to give you something where you have a you know an improved sales funnel blueprint um to take that with you and grow your business. So um, I don't know what day. Again, we'll we have that link. So, if you're um able to uh get that link from this podcast in the description and just RSVP, we will email you out when um we're gonna be talking. But if you see that on the expo schedule, stop wasting ad spend, you just see those four words, that's probably us. And it will be either me or Brandan. I am having a baby in September, number two. So, shot if it's uh due date September 22nd, I believe the expo is like a few days after. So, we'll this child comes, but it's gonna be either me and Brandan or Brandan running the show for that one. Um, but yeah, come on, come to that. Uh we'd love to see you there. Go ahead, Brandan.

Brandan 57:56

And just real quick to add on to that, I would say uh we do love meeting people in real life, also. We love shaking hands. So, like, please come visit us at the booth at 1225. We'll have a present for you. We talk all about how to be effective and personable and efficient and close more in less time online. Um, but man, do I love going to the Shed Expo. So please come visit us at uh booth 1225.

Shannon 58:17

Can't wait to see you guys there. It's always a pleasure. You guys always bring such good uh uh energy, but you bring good knowledge to the show. You always leave me with some thoughts to ponder, Brandan and uh Joe. There's always something that I'll take away from every podcast that I'll think about. And I'm uh now I'm already thinking about ways to incorporate some of what you guys have said here into my own thoughts. Uh and they start to interweave in between our conversations. So, uh I'll give credit where it's new, and you guys have been just absolutely excellent, just uh like I said, since day one. Velocity360, guys. We trust them over here at Shed Geek Podcast. As a matter of fact, they are our exclusive uh partner in the CRM space, and uh we just love what they do, we love the results they're getting. That matters. Sometimes you can look past a lot of things whenever results happen. People love results. I've noticed that more than anything. They love good results. So um, you know, whatever you've heard here that you disagreed with, call us. Let's talk about it. Because we want to we want to eventually uh have a conversation with you and prove those results. You're so data-driven. And that matters, that matters to me more now. And really, truly, the tech conversation is uh I mean it's just something that's gonna continue to move forward. And congrats on uh baby number two and congrats on baby number one. Like you guys are both, you know, like young fathers, and like I'm just uh gosh, I'm a grandfather now, guys. Uh I'm envious, I missed that. The cool thing about the grandkids are you get to fix all the things, hopefully, that you did wrong the first time. So, it's been so much fun for me to have the girls over to the house constantly. That's why I'm not on the road so much. Uh they uh they have just been really, really great. But uh just love you guys. Can't wait to see you at the expo in uh Knoxville. You guys check them out, Velocity 360. Thank you.

Brandan 1:00:11

Thank you. Thank you.

OUTRO 1:00:13

Thank you for listening to another episode of the Shed Geek podcast. A quick thank you to our studio sponsor, Shed Pro. Head over to shedpro.co/ shed geek and take their free Shed Sales Audit. It takes just a few minutes and it gives you a clearer picture of what's going on underneath. Thank you for listening as always. And thank you, Shed Pro, for being this year's Wednesday studio sponsor on the Shed Geek Podcast.