Shed Geek Podcast

From Expo Energy to Industry Evolution: Humility, Media, and the Future of Shed Sales

• Shed Geek Podcast • Season 5 • Episode 88

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The loudest thing we brought home from Shed Week wasn’t a new tool—it was a clearer mission. After a week packed with the Shed Sale Summit, NSRA meetings, and an expo floor buzzing with real conversations, we unpack what actually moves the needle: the human element of selling, cleaner workflows from quote to delivery, and a community willing to ask hard questions about bias, standards, and growth.

We walk through standout moments—Rob Ball’s high‑energy kick‑off, sharp insights from Connor Dalen and Joe Ignace, and a panel that tackled RTO, finance, and dealer realities without flinching. We talk openly about NSRA’s evolving role and why this industry’s willingness to collaborate—even among competitors—might be its greatest strength. Then we get personal: receiving an award while staying grounded, the tension between humility and visibility, and how new media forces creators to define fair play, partnerships, and where the line is between influence and integrity.

Here’s the shift: moving from endless one‑off calls to a defined consulting model that actually serves operators. We introduce GrowthOps—fractional C‑suite support for founder‑led companies that have hit their ceiling—and map out what changes next for the show. Expect more structure, clearer boundaries, and new voices stepping behind the mic, all while keeping the same promise: practical insights that help builders, dealers, haulers, and RTO teams win. Less noise, more outcomes.

If you value candid industry talk and useful playbooks, hit follow, share this with a colleague, and tell us what you want solved next. Your feedback shapes the conversations—and the solutions—we bring to the shed community.

If this episode sparks ideas, share it with a builder friend, subscribe for more smart conversations, and leave a review to help others find the show.

For more information or to know more about the Shed Geek Podcast visit us at our website.

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This episodes Sponsors:
Studio Sponsor: Shed Pro

NewFound Solutions
Cardinal Manufacturing
CAL
Identigrow
LuxGuard

INTRO:

Hello and welcome back to the Shed Geek Podcast. Here's a message from our 2025 studio sponsor. Let's be real. Running a shed business today isn't just about building great sheds. The industry is changing fast. We're all feeling the squeeze, competing for fewer buyers, while expectations keep climbing. And yet, I hear from many of you that you are still juggling spreadsheets, clunky software, or disconnected systems. You're spending more time managing chaos than actually growing your business. That's why I want to talk to you about our studio sponsor, ShedPro. If you're not already using them, I really think you should check them out. ShedPro combines your 3D configurator, point of sale, RTO contracts, inventory, deliveries, and dealer tools all in one platform. They even integrate cleanly into our Shed Geek marketing solutions. From website lead to final delivery, you can quote, contract, collect payment, and schedule delivery in one clean workflow. No more double entries, no more back and forth chaos. Quoting is faster, orders are cleaner. And instead of chasing down paperwork, you're actually running your business. And if you mention Shed Geek, you'll get 25% off all setup fees. Check it out at shedpro.co forward slash shed geek. Thank you, ShedPro, for being our studio sponsor and honestly for building something that helps the industry.

Shannon:

Okay, welcome back to another episode of the Shed Geek Podcast here in Metropolis, Illinois court. I've never showed you these buttons, but there's if you turn the volume up on this, you'd have to have your headphones on. Oh, right. But there's all kinds of like claps and audience participation, boos. I'll do that whenever I inter introduce you. Yeah, absolutely. But I'll have to show you these sometime and you have to put your headphones in. Uh I think the audience maybe gets a kick out of that sometime. Yeah, absolutely. But uh what are we doing here today? We're doing a podcast and fresh off the expo. Fresh off the expo. Roll forming show. Roll forming show in Dayton. Yeah. So, lots to talk about. Our last week's episode would have been the interview we did at the expo. I did at the expo. Yep. There was a lot more that came out of that that you you people are going to hear. Right. Ten or twelve lined up, but we only did one.

Cord:

Kind of live on the floor. Yeah, exactly.

Shannon:

Well, we you know, we're we were busy because Shed Week's killing it.

Cord:

Yes. You know? What a show. Um, I've been a part of several different industries at this point, and um just very impressive. Not just the expo itself, but really the week. Uh obviously, we came in on Sunday night, so we were there Monday for uh Shed Sale Summit, which was great. Um uh Connor Dalen was the sort of headliner at the end of the night, was great. Joe Ignis uh Velocity 360 was there. Uh he did great as well. And then what was the first speaker's name? Uh it was Rob Ball. Rob Ball.

Shannon:

So, Rob spoke at the last year's summit. He was kind of like keynoting it last year at the event.

Cord:

So, he did a good job. He kind of kicked it off this year.

Shannon:

Kicked it off this year. Yeah, did a really great job. A lot of good energy. He does like the uh he does like the oh gosh, the tear pads, the tear pads.

Cord:

Yeah, exactly. The sticky, huge sticky tear pads, yeah. Yeah, that was really fun. And then you had a breakout session. I did. Which I thought went, I mean, you know, obviously I suppose I'm biased and I was in your room, so maybe I don't have the broadest perspective, but I thought it went really well. Uh the human the human element. The human element of shed selling. Yeah, yeah.

Shannon:

Yeah, we talked a lot about like the uh unspoken language, the body language, and just different things that you pick up on. And really I didn't learn those in my opinion in shed selling. I learned them more in the casino industry because they were phenomenal teachers about like selling yourself, so to speak. Right. Like as an employee, that you know, I I've told this story before. People come in, they walk out without anything tangible, right? So they walk that means they had an experience, kind of like Disney World. Yeah, you know, like uh casinos are just Disney World for old white-haired ladies, I guess. Right. Yeah, yeah, that's about right. So that's about right.

Cord:

Basically, they go to Disney World too, some, but yes. Yeah.

Shannon:

Somebody's gonna question whether or not that should be edited out. Yeah, right. Um, but no, I mean, I mean, like, you know, you go to Disney World, you come back with a with a bunch of memories. You spent money and you had an experience. Well, the casino was that way, so they were really good teachers to their employees about like making sure that you own it, you know, making sure that you offer customer service to the highest degree. Like you become very judgmental about other people's customer service because you know what you were providing.

Cord:

Right.

Shannon:

And you're like, man, this guy's not giving it us all, you know. Like, you know, and anyway, um, so it was it was a great learning curve being there. But yeah, uh the human element, that's what it boiled down to. I really enjoyed the breakout and getting to do the breakout and just be part of it because let's just be honest, like the Shed Cell Summit is needed in the industry. It is like it's you know, I hear the people who are like, oh, well, it's put on by people in the industry. And I'm like, for the most part, think of a product that you use, or maybe I should say a service that you use today, and like who didn't, you know, develop that because they were in the industry, right? You know what I mean? Yeah, and then like saw a need and then went and addressed the need. Like, I could start name dropping a bunch of companies, but I want to make sure I say it positively. Yeah, I wouldn't want it to come across as with a negative connotation, sure, you know. But there's like a lot of men and women out there who saw a need, addressed it for their own company, and then said, I can sell this to the rest of the industry because the rest of the industry needs it. Well, now, like, how do you sell to your competitor? Yeah, yeah, we can get into that.

Cord:

But it's just uh No, that's a no, that's a very good point. Very good point. And a lot of those, not specifically that kind of a question, but a lot of good uh a lot of good questions about the sort of nature of the industry, the nature of uh shed sales, how RTO and finance play into that were posed at the QA panel. Um Richard Mashburn killed it. Richard did so great. Um Jim did really good. Uh J Mag, Jim Kuhlman did a really great job.

Shannon:

Which were it was suggested that if the five of us started a business, that Jim should be the CEO. Yeah. Pretty much immediately. Right. Yeah. Uh but then I thought that was clever here. I was like the five of us, you know, would uh we would uh and then it was Eric, and then who was uh the fifth? Uh so we had Gary. Oh, that's right. Yep, yeah, and then um and then Jim and Eric myself and Richard. But great panel. Oh, it was a great panel. You know, I really enjoyed being up there. I felt like I was in, you know, they say put yourself in a room full of people smarter than yourself. Yeah, and then like by default, you'll get better, and that's the way I felt on the stage. There's so much history there. Um, I would I don't know, maybe 12 years is when I started, and I would say almost everybody there had more experience than me. I'm not sure, but like it was kind of wild that that so many people had uh been in the industry for a long time and love the panel, but kudos to Richard just because of the dog. In a way that is better than look, I'm just gonna go on record than any of the other four of us. And the other four guys that I got the three guys I got to serve with were amazing. But uh I'm always a fan of Richard.

Cord:

He just has such an impassioned stance on most things. Like you can tell that he's the type of guy who just he thinks through a lot of business scenarios. Um, I mean, we've had some offline calls with him where he is impassioned about whatever the topic is and has thought it through and has rationale, and he did such a great job. Uh of course, Craig, J Mag, uh Craig Felker was in there. He was a great host. Always doing great. Um and then of course the.

Shannon:

I wish I had Craig's energy. I'm never gonna have it, but I wish I had it.

Cord:

Yeah, I don't know. We should probably uh we should probably do a podcast on just like what he does.

Shannon:

I did one with him, but he was much more laid back. He was actually my first podcast in this building. Oh, really? Yeah, first one ever uh was here in this building. Um, but he was much more laid back and he's a little bit more in the zone. And uh I think that's probably my nature is you know, like I have moments of Craig, but I'll never have like all that. He's just got he's just got a unique uh way that he handles like communication.

Cord:

A feeling that he has like a routine that I would like to hear about. I have a feeling he has like, I don't know, stretching or a certain curve.

Shannon:

I mean he's yeah, he's big on running. I know that. Um, but he's just been that since I've known him, since the first time I met him, you know, um he just always had that energy. So it did great with the NSRA too. He was hosting that so then he did uh Shed Cell Summit. So he makes for a great MC, yeah, honestly.

Cord:

And then NSRA, obviously, I was actually uh helping to put the booth up, so I didn't have that firsthand experience. But from all accounts, everything that I then heard on Wednesday at the expo, all accounts was that it was a really, really good NSRA um day. Um what do they call it?

Shannon:

The NSRA So National Shed Rental Association, or as the comedian said, the National Street Rod Association, which is what he thought he was coming to, or something like that. Well do they call that like the annual meeting? Is NSR it was about I think I want to say it's around 13 years old. They presented uh Leland Oracle with an uh with a award there for like his vision early on. I got to interview Leland a couple years ago and he kind of talked about that and uh um you know the APRO, the larger, you know, rent-to-own, I guess what you would say, umbrella, right? Maybe you know, for all the things rent-town, well Sheds kind of carves out its own little niche.

Cord:

Sure.

Shannon:

Because like not all the probably like not all the uh laws surrounding it really make a lot of sense for like you know the TV guys and the you know what I mean, like the couch guys and things different things.

Cord:

So like you gotta rent rent-to-own stores, like rent to owner.

Shannon:

Yeah, it's just a little bit different. Um and so like the NBSRA was created, you know, years ago. And then it kind of like I would make the argument, like whether I'm right or wrong, that it kind of like struggled to identify what it's like what it was going to be. Role, yeah. Like, you know, because you have to get together with your competitors, right? To have this uh thing. And like they were, you know, they were able to do that over this 13-year period and like finally come to a conclusion of where like this thing's growing with a different identity. There's membership now, you know what I mean? Like we became members of the N uh NBSRA uh this year.

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Shannon:

I think of the NSRA. Formerly Steve Byler, we had breakfast with him. You know, um Harrisonburg. In Harrisonburg. Yep. And uh there's been some just some good folks who've who got it. You know, it's like the church, Cord. You know, it's like the church, you know, it got us here.

Cord:

Right. You know what I mean? Right.

Shannon:

Amazing Grace got us here. You know what I mean? Like when we hear Amazing Grace, you gotta remember it was a new song at one point.

Speaker 6:

Yeah.

Shannon:

And like the people probably didn't like it either. You know, so it got us here. You know what I mean? So, like the for those who don't like the new music uh in church, just throwing that out there. Uh you know, love victory in Jesus, my favorite hymn. Oh, good. You know, I just don't love it every Sunday. I love it. I just don't love it every Sunday. Yeah, you know, but uh we get all the time.

Cord:

I'm a big well, I'm a big hymns guy. I know you can sing it every time. Because you sing in the choir. Yeah, I've got choir practice tonight, actually. So, looking forward anyway.

Shannon:

It's just one of those things where like they I feel like they did great. So, if we're speaking specifically to the NSRA, uh, you know, I already gave a shout out, you know, um to Kyle and the different guys there. I thought the lineup and I thought the event itself was amazing. You know, I even like the comedian. I know some people said too much too far. Yeah, I don't think so. I didn't. I mean, you know, uh we're gonna we're gonna get in trouble if I keep going. So when I start talking about how being offended is a choice, you know what I mean? I'm gonna I gotta stop. I gotta stop.

Cord:

And comedians are comedians, but that does bring us to day three of Shed Week, the expo itself. And this was my first expo. Uh I just got into the industry last November, so I was not uh I was not in the industry during last year's expo. From my perspective, the energy that walks into that expo at whatever it is, 10 30 after the morning breakout sessions, right? The energy that that comes into that expo hall is just more electric. I guess maybe I mean everyone's very reserved and everything. It's not like people are hooping and hollering, hanging from chandeliers coming into the but the willingness and the wanting to truly connect. I mean, you can watch people go around uh to the booths and have genuine conversations with each of them as they're going, right? And that's just so you know, I come from uh, you know, franchise and automotive and um agriculture. We actually went and had a booth out at the big Louisville uh farm show one year, right? And while those are big and impressive and everything like that, you have a lot of people who just kind of head down, walk, or they come over and they scoop, you know, half of the giveaway things on your table into a bag or you know, things of that nature. But you know, with this, it just seems so much more genuinely valuable um than any other expo that I've ever been to because of that interactiveness and the wanting of course we're at the shed geek booth, right? So, I suppose that everybody wants to interact with Shed Geek, but at the same time it feels ubiquitous in that room.

Shannon:

That pedestal right there is exactly what I'm trying to avoid. The you know what I mean? Like the everybody wants to like come interact and talk, and I think maybe because my voice is familiar, because I accidentally landed into this, just uh passion project, and that's probably gonna segue, you know, into another conversation. But you know, just um doing something I love, I was passionate about and wanting to do this, and then like where it's where it's gained got me to today, which is like I definitely, you know, like uh yeah, it's embarrassed to win the award, you know, like at the summit because uh, you know, for me shed of honor. Yeah, well, yeah, it just it's for me it's embarrassing.

Cord:

I know you don't even want me to say that, you know, but it's it was it's a good thing and it's well deserved, you know, well deserved.

Shannon:

And I appreciate that, and I appreciate everybody nominated, so I don't want to take away from anybody who did. It's just that uh I'm probably like underneath like I don't have on the bow tie and suspenders right now, but like under underneath all that is really an introvert uh when it boils down to it. And like I don't think that people realize that maybe. Um that I don't want to say I'm like playing for the camera, playing a role, but in some respects, like the shed like the first time I put on the bow tie and suspenders, I was very embarrassed to like walk around with it. Whereas some people would just like do that and own it and feel good about it. But I felt like wow, this is kind of a character, you know, to some extent.

Cord:

And um But you want to be what people expect, and there's nothing disingenuous about being on, right? About being the guy that you hear on the podcast. That's not disingenuous, that's just trying to give people the experience of meeting the person that they listen to every week.

Shannon:

I want I want to say this, and I and I hope that this really gets through. I just want to make sure that my humility in in that doesn't turn into pride itself. Right. Do you understand what I'm saying? That like the false humility or like the you know, no, no, no, don't say good things. Yeah, Sam, Sam. Yeah, yeah. Underneath. Yeah. Right. Like it really is kind of truly embarrassing for me. And these are probably things that stem back to my childhood. Sure. That I don't feel crazy about talking about or discussing, but you know, that it's a little bit embarrassing for me to be celebrated in that way. So like I don't I don't really like the pedestal. Uh as a matter of fact, I'd like to try and diminish any of it that I can as best as possible because I feel like I feel like I can also get you targeted, like in many ways, right? Yeah. You know, like um that sounds very conspiratal, doesn't it? But I just think that like, you know, like Walmart's doing so well that somebody wants to see it fail. Yeah, you know, it's like, hey, you know, just show your take a piece of the market or whatever else. Yeah, you just you know, I don't I don't feel like I'm leading anything. I feel like I set out to interview people. Yeah, I think that's what it was like I was going door to door, beating down doors for rent own, right? Building a territory in the Midwest, and I felt like I was doing a pretty good job and I felt really at home. And then when people started saying, like, I need more resources, and I get in the car and I'm like listening to podcasts, and like the idea just pops in your head, like, why don't people just record these conversations? Because when you go from one dealer to the next or one manufacturer to the next, you get the same questions from all of them. What do you see in here? What's going on there? Power sales there, right? Feel like you're in a fishbowl, right? You know, and the reality is that there's a whole sea out here. Yeah, you know, we're just not connected, you know, because there's school of fish over here, and school of fish over here, and school of fish over there. And they don't maybe they know each other through their cousin or their uncle, or you know, my friend moved over there and started working, you know, in Indiana, and I'm from, you know, Texas or whatever.

Cord:

But you're still limited to your interpersonal network, yeah, right, and having someone that is just aggregating a lot of those thoughts, and of course you wind up having uh higher level conversations because then people listen and they want to be a part of the conversation. But I'll just say um, as a person who uh you know uh saw you 10 minutes after you came off the stage or whatever, it's not disingenuous, it is genuinely embarrassing for you to be recognized. Like you push it away, uh, even just in private conversations, you just kind of put your hands up and kind of don't want it. Um so you know, uh you're certainly not drifting there.

Shannon:

And I would tell you that over the last you know two years, I'll be honest with you, the temptation of that has been strong.

Cord:

Yeah.

Shannon:

The temptation to celebrate yourself, oneself. Um you know, I'm no different than any human. You know, your pastor is no different than any human out there, you know. Uh my pastor always says, you know, uh, no one's above sin, no one's above temptation, you know, except for Jesus. I mean, you know, uh, you know, like Jesus was tempted and he was able to overcome because, you know, Jesus is God, right? Like he's able to, you know, like but for me, you know, like the temptation of being celebrated, you know, it does it has played its role, but I always see the people on my show as the hero.

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Shannon:

You know, I wanted uh I wanted to interview these people that I saw in the industry because I wanted to learn from them. They're interesting to me. Some of them are fun, some of them are fascinating, some of them are crazy. You know what I mean? Like, you know what I mean? Uh, but I just like I wanted to not be the pedestal. I wanted them to be the pedestal. I wanted to build that. Yeah, and like, but it was cool to do the bow tie and suspenders and like uh Jim Kuhlman, I think, said this to me whenever I was working at JMAG. He said, you know, you're selling fun and people love fun. And I was like, Yeah, I'm not the most fun person on earth, but I agree with you, people do enjoy that. But I don't want to be uh when I ask guests on and they're like, Oh, I don't really have anything to say, I actually understand that level of humility because I'm like, no, I get it, trust me. I get it.

Cord:

There's nothing that interesting going on, but really all the details are interesting. I mean, we talk to um, you know, dozens, uh, if not a couple hundred, probably, people in the booth. And individually, I think most of those people, of course, we know this is a very humble uh uh an industry that is full of genuine humility. Um, and I think most of the people who attended, most of the conversations that we had, people would kind of have that perspective. Well, we're not doing anything that much different. We're just building barns, we're just building portable buildings. But it's like, no, there's there are such good stories there, uh, and such good uh whys, such good uh uh why, how, where are you going, what are the dreams, right? And maybe this is a good spot to just kind of I guess you're gosh, four and a half years into the industry now. I think you've had into podcasting specifically. Into podcasting, yeah. Yeah, I guess a dozen years in the industry or so.

Shannon:

Off and on, yeah.

Cord:

Off and on.

Shannon:

But strong eight and a half years.

Cord:

And four and a half into the podcast with three hundred and uh there's the numbers uh three seventy-five.

Shannon:

Now, not all those are me, some of those are other podcasts, but I've done at least three hundred or so episodes.

Cord:

So, you know, I mean, I guess to me coming out of the expo, I mean the sort of uh um you know, the biggest event in in Shed Week now. Shed week, not just the expo, yeah. Shed week coming out of Shed Week, the sort of biggest week, biggest event of the year, and having the experience in the industry along with now the experience in podcasting. I don't know. I mean, it feels like a good time to be a little retrospective um about where you're at after four and a half years, where you're going. I mean, we've had a little bit of these conversations, you know, off air, but I think the listeners would certainly be interested with how you view things and how you view your role in them.

Shannon:

Yeah. Big question. Yes, like lots of uh I'll set my pen down and just take a sip and listen. Enough rabbit trails, you know, to go down to fill multiple podcasts. I mean, I always say some of the conversations we had in the booth would have made some of the best podcasts you would have ever heard. Uh, we just didn't get in and just because it's formality of us sitting down and doing it wasn't really different than the conversations we were having there. If people would just share those conversations, you know, it'd be good. But um yeah, I mean, you know, the long hours, you know, like uh the late nights. I mean, uh, a lot of it I was doing all 100% on my own at one point where you're shooting the content, you're lining up the interview, you know, then you're editing it, and then you're uploading it to all the various places, you know, um, and then you're promoting it, you know, and then you're trying to sell advertising. Right? You know, and then yeah, well then with that advertising, you've got to create the script or write read the script, uh, record the script, edit the script. Um I'm trying to think of like all the things that I might would have been doing at some point just on my own. Right. Um now we have a whole team of people helping us, you know, which is nice. Deanna kind of pretty much handles all the production. Uh, you know, Troy and Aliyah do a lot of the editing and things like that for us and with us. But yeah, I guess it's just what you know, some I remember some 2 a.m. mornings that you were just getting stuff out there. And then and then how do you monetize, right? Because it's very simple if I say, you know, I own a rent-owned company. It's very simple if I say I own a marketing company. It's very simple if I say I own a finance company or e-commerce or uh advertising, you know, do I own a media company? Yeah. But do I also work in the industry that I mediate? Yeah. Yes. You know, so then like how does that make money? Right. Um so thinking through the nuance of all that, knowing that it's a small industry and it's very interconnected, and that it also has its speed bumps, right? You know, we've all experienced something unpleasant, probably in our job and even in this industry, you know, and trying to navigate through that um to just mind map that out on like what does that look like on a on a very personal level for you.

Cord:

Well, and with a I mean you say media company, which is a hundred percent true, that's what Shade Geek is, but it's a new media company, right? Like it is a part of the new media, meaning the digital media that is um self-made, self-produced, self-distributed. I mean, other than the platforms, obviously it goes to YouTube, Spotify, um uh down the line. But you know, I mean uh the business model itself is not established across any industry, across any world, right? I mean, in a lot of in some places that business model means that you go after the consumer or you go after the views, basically, to where you're trying to monetize the actual content itself. Correct. Which leads to a whole separate version of whatever you want to call it bias or a whole different way to veer content to make sure that you're able to consistently produce the views, that produce the payment from YouTube or Spotify or whoever else that might be. Obviously, this is an industry podcast, so it's focused on the few thousand people who are in the industry, not the broader America, but figuring out what those business models look like. I I just don't know that it's fair to um kind of even think about it in that media space, you know what I mean? I mean it is, it certainly is media, but like we're all figuring out how this new thing works.

Shannon:

Well, podcasting itself, you know, like what is a podcast, trying to get a def the same definition from two different people. It's about like saying, you know, like what is uh an Amish person, what is a Mennonite person, you know, like someone told me before, if you've ever met an Amish person, you've met one Amish person. You know, that doesn't mean that they're not like you know similar in thoughts, beliefs, and culture and things, but same with Baptist, same with Methodist, same with Catholicism or whatever it is. You know, like putting the label on any one person to be like you're like this because of that. It's a little bit, you know, it's not it really doesn't speak to the uniqueness of the of our creator, you know, that he gives us all a unique thumbprint, right? Uh a unique fingerprint, no two people on earth gonna have the same fingerprint, you kidding me? You know, like you know, I I'm just again, we'll get into the weeds here, but you know, um I mean even to say I own a you know a rent owned company or something like that, I you know, if people haven't figured that part out, what we've basically done is leverage the you know the resources of the podcast to like to the brand to benefit, you know, by partnering with a rent end provider or partnering with a marketing agency or par partnering with a finance agency or partnering with an any com.

Cord:

And like And if you stop by our booth, you will s you would have seen those various backdrops and a little bit of a hodgepodge and everything like that that reflect all of those all of those deals.

Shannon:

All of those yeah well I mean you're an example of that with growth ops which you know we need to talk about and like you're going to be hosting some shows.

Cord:

You're going to have plenty of chances to like get you get your free jabs in there as long as you want to I'm the same as you though like I'm you know I'm just uh hopelessly unself promotional I hope people see the value in me uh you know but anyway um I I've just I've even tried to like you know on the shed sales professionals page tried to branch it out so it didn't seem so you know like unbiased what does unbiased mean you know because I tell people you gotta you know they say you gotta maintain unbiased and I was like what media form of uh a form of media in in in all of history have you ever found to be is Fox News unbiased?

Shannon:

Is MSNBC unbiased? Is New York Times unbiased?

Cord:

Was the king unbiased?

Shannon:

Right I mean you know like you go how far you want to go how far you go back right like the I will tell you this and this is the way I always defend myself as though I feel the right the need that I have to defend it you know is like I'm so un I'm so biased that I you know ask for those who are competing with me to come on and talk about things. Yeah and for those who compete with me to come on and like share ideas and thoughts that might make the industry better. Oh not to mention some of them advertise with me. Right. And I even had one recently said hey I got a lead from your show. I'm surprised you didn't take it and I was like course I didn't take it you paid for it. Yeah right you know and they were like well we appreciate that it paid for my advertising for the whole year because we won that account and I was like good for you move on. It's just like I don't know how to be more unbiased than that. Yeah you know but like if you want complete fairness in everything I say do and and touch and feel and and all that it look it's just I don't know that that's I'm not sure if that's a realistic goal for me to achieve but um I do think that even if people disagree like the f you've probably seen this the first thing I do whenever someone says hey I heard this person and I disagree with this and I'm like cool you want to come on and talk about it? Yeah exactly let's let's have a conversation let's have it on here are you a dealer who sells multiple products at your shed lot are you tired of sifting through clunky or overcomplicated softwares to simply sell a product if so it's time to call Cal. We are partnered with IdeaRoom and Shed Pro for configurators and have multiple RTO partners to choose from from JMAG to Heartland to Shed Geek Rentals and Scott's RTO and if your partner isn't listed here just ask we are happy to add more. Give us a call at 425 3593279 or visit calcanhelp.com that's c a l c a n h e l p dot com you're kind of interviewing me at this point because well I wasn't meaning to because that's okay you're fitting into the role well you know because people are going to see more of you in the future and learn what GrowthOps is and learn why I'm choosing there again to work with you. Again I don't own a rent-owned company I don't spend all day uh taking care of contracts right like I don't spend all day taking care of customers even though I get the occasional customer call more than occasional but I don't I don't spend you know days building websites I don't spend days doing ads I don't spend days doing finance contracts or whatever like I podcast and I'm a connector I'm a hinge point right to you is what you like to say is a connector and it I think it took that's why you're gonna be more present for one and like you know part of that is like wanting to use shed geek to like promote the services that your company offers Growth Ops so I'm whether you feel embarrassed by it or not give me give me give me two minutes on growth ops.

Cord:

Yeah so um thank you uh for that intro um yeah so growth ops is a company that I started with uh Shalisha Wood so we worked together uh in our days in franchising at HHO Carbon Clean Systems uh she was the chief operations officer the COO I was marketing director over there and since we worked together we've stayed in touch um been really good friends loved working together and always said we really should find a way to work together again um and so we kind of identified and I I think this is true in the shed industry which is why obviously I want to uh take this offering into sheds as well but we identified in really a lot of blue-collar service industries uh whether that be uh concrete or um exterior cleaning or fence building or a lot of these very um hands-on um work hard um type of industries uh you can hustle your way into success right you can you can be a person who is willing to get up earlier work harder go to bed later and and you can get yourself to a point of success um that has kind of a ceiling on it right that has you know you're limited by if we relate this directly to sheds you know you're limited by whatever the production of you know you yourself plus uh your two sons plus one hired hand uh plus the the one shop that you have is you're limited on how much you can produce and you can hustle your way up to where you're producing the maximum amount that can possibly come out of that kind of where I am in some respects. Yeah right yeah kind of where I am you can work 14 16 hours a day right but after a while like that'll take its toe on you which it it has after four and a half years but go ahead Hudson yeah no you're exactly right so many um really founder led is probably the like buzzwordy way to say this but founder led businesses get to this point because uh in a lot of ways the founder themselves are bullheaded right will not take no probably bullheaded will not I mean you know uh you and Deanna can have that discussion more further but is our people who you know did not make good employees right because they definitely have not been the best employee because they knew that things could be can be done better.

Shannon:

Um so they go if it's not done better it's just the the lack of suppressing your creativity I think a lot of times like I'm a big ideas guy but a poor implementer right so that's a perfect example of like you want something to work like here's the idea now we've got to figure out how to make it work. Yeah yeah a podcast to serve ought to serve as a decent example is the first one in the shed industry and even against all of the this will never works it's like well gotta figure out how to make it work how to make it work.

Cord:

That's right and you got to be creative you have to be determined you have to have some level of bullheadedness or um you know that that kind of attitude about you. Some of the most famous entrepreneurs I know have been fired eight times I think uh uh uh Walt Disney was fired eight times went through two uh uh uh mental breakdowns right right but everybody's like well it created a picture of a mouse and next thing you know you know we got Disney World Disney World getting some shout outs on the podcast it is it is yeah second Disney World call us Disney World show call us Disney um but uh but anyway um so we identified that as just a market dynamic that is out there uh as part of the uh this sort of new economy post COVID economy whatever you want to call it and um and so we identified that a lot of those businesses have gotten to whatever that point is you know if you are uh if you're pouring concrete my son actually works in concrete so if you're pouring concrete and it's you and two guys uh maybe you are you know putting in some drainage for people you're you're doing that and you can you and your one crew can hustle really hard that's probably like a 1.2 1.5 million a year ceiling on on how that's operating now in sheds you know a guy with some determined help and and a and a good shop you know maybe that ceiling is 4 million 4.5 million 5 million 6 million right we've seen some of these stories ourselves um but you know the the real point is is what we want to offer is fractional executive and C-suite services so effectively a way to bring on the professionalization of those operations financials marketing in a way that really integrates with your team just like a COO CMO CFO would do um but in a fractional way so instead of paying uh you know gosh uh some of those titles are are big and expensive right instead of paying 150 200 225 for some of those really big uh expertise sets for 40 hours a week nine to five clocking in clocking out we're offering those in a fractional way that allows you to say hey look I need the the 10,000 foot view on my operations I need the 10,000 foot view on my financials. I want you all to come in evaluate um give me high level reporting high level strategy high level tactics and then we also have the ability to uh implement project manage and go do those things on a you know five hour per week uh 10 hour per week at this fractional rate to where you have all of the expertise uh at a fraction of what it would cost you to actually have those things in place on full time W-2 uh also you're skipping all of the uh employment taxes right this is a service a 1099 service.

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Cord:

for more information visit identigrow.com so it really saves in multiple ways um from that sort of operations financial perspective for the customer so that's what we're doing um and I was happy we were able to have some of those conversations at the expo um and I think that it is every person that I talk to and I know people are nice to you whenever you start something and you're doing something um but every person I talk to seem to genuinely after I explained that's exact that's exactly what they said is gosh that is needed right it's just identifying that and really you know I would even go far enough to say that like you kind of have a mar a particular market that that works really good for, right?

Shannon:

You know, like a 300 dealer network they've probably already got all of the you know C-suite services that you could possibly you know offer what about for companies that don't have employee handbooks, standard operating procedures, ways to handle things uh understanding the CPA, understanding like how things you know this this fits really well into HR and onboarding. Yeah. Right?

Cord:

Like I mean all these things that sort of like as you grow right like mature companies wind up having them.

Shannon:

Yeah but it's hard to transition to I mean they they they you know well most and and and not only that there's the interesting side of like the the culture aspect of like what we do because I think Jonathan Orwick said a couple years ago like it's time to do the right thing and just put people on a W-2 because we've 1099 so long in this industry. And I'm not I'm not saying that that's the right way or wrong. I'm not saying I agree with Jonathan or disagree. I'm saying that like you know that was a point that he made and like we need to get him back on the show because he always you know has a good listener count. People respect what he has to say as I do as well. But um you know it's one of those things where it's like you you can kind of identify the the size of the companies that kind of need those services and like that fits into what I'm looking at doing anyway which is why I'm kind of stepping away it's why you're gonna see less of me on social media. Well maybe it's why you're gonna see less of me even on the podcast is because it's time to it's time to not just focus on revenue streams that are even outside the industry like this this thing started for me as a labor of love. Like I bought like five thousand dollars worth equipment because I just enjoy the people in this industry and just like did it for free. Like it wasn't until I think it might have been Jeff I think I give him credit Jeff Huxman at Shed Hub was the first one to be like hey would could we advertise with you? And I was like sure can what's that word? You tell me you know what I mean but I was like you know can you give me money? Yeah why not right you know and but it was just like I got to figure this out right because like and then it and then what happens is you know like any good passion that you turn into work you you do like I'm just being vulnerable here with the audience you know like you do not only lose your passion for it but you begin to um work for the business right as opposed to just doing what you enjoy and I'm trying to get uh back into the Zen moment where the last two years in particular I feel like have kind of taken me off I mean we again we don't own a marketing company we don't own a rent-owned company you know what I mean I don't and I and I I really don't have interest in it to be honest with you I have most interest in podcasting right but it's like well if you love that so much why are you stepping away? It's like well that's exactly the point. I need to get I want to get right with like my vision and my I want to get in touch with like what I'm supposed to do. And all that's probably means a lot of different things from you know spending some time in the wilderness or the desert a little bit right you know to kind of understand that um uh reaching out to people that mean a lot to me I think I told you and this doesn't mean anything to anyone in the industry but you know for the first time in 20 years I stepped onto a baseball field in my hometown. Right. I hadn't been there. And people probably thought I was crazy because I went down there and I'm swinging at a ball standing at home standing at home plate. Yeah. And then I'm crouched down at shortstop just in the edge of the grass where it meets the dirt and I'm like pretending like I'm grow uh a field and ground balls like I did. Baseball was such a passion for me when I was a kid it was like some of my best memories you know was playing on the baseball field with my friends.

Cord:

And you need to be grounded in those things. I mean does it look a little goofy if you're driving by on the road probably so but you know I mean I don't have that same specific to baseball passion but you know I mean in the same way I probably look goofy uh trekking out across my farm in khakis and a button up shirt uh you know whenever I'm uh grounding myself right with my own memories um but you know I think that brings us to something and um uh this may be something that you can just expound on here for a bit but I think what you're saying and we've had these conversations a little bit offline but it's ship is separating Shannon Latham from the shed geek. Yeah right and what those two things mean to you and how Shannon Latham can and needs to or will continue to work in the background but the shed geek maybe needs to you know either be shared or stay on a shelf for a while or you to you tell me what you're it's a hard thing you know because like I'm the logo right like that that's what it you know it was on purpose when me and Kyle got started that we were the logo me and him and then um you know when I became solo and became the only logo right avatar yeah you know that that uh I it kind of became synonymous with me and the reality is like I again I want none of the like accolades and all it's cool but man I found myself for the last over the last two years cord like wanting that and desiring that and I feel like you know I've gotten off track to be honest with you.

Shannon:

So so yeah I want to separate those two and I think a lot of that comes back to you know social media is an Achilles heel for me. I really am not the biggest fan of social media but man in a business how is it not so relevant yeah to be on social media so I've been trying to figure out how to separate those things out well I save a lot of my thoughts for the podcast as opposed to social media but um even the podcast has kind of become its own Achilles heel for me in the sense that like how do I separate Shannon Latham from Shed Geek because it's kind of like you create your own brand and then you create your company's brand. And like the one thing I want is to share this with others which is why you're coming on to help podcast. It's why we want to have others on who knows maybe help co-host maybe host all together I don't know right where I shed geeks right and I know that was the original idea but the idea that there are lots of geeks in the industry. Like we said we just had had conversations uh at the expo at shed week that were well qualified as geek conversations make better conversations than I would too they'd make better hosts they'd make better guests they'd make better appearances and like I share that with you know because there's going to be times where like maybe me and you just dialogue. Yeah you know and then there's going to be times where um oh I don't know I've done some monologues but more than anything is I want some other thoughts and opinions on here because after 300 times of listening to me say the same things like I've already found it interesting like watching you handle people and like you see things from a different perspective and you bring a different point of view and a different conversation. And honestly the best thing that can happen to me is that people like you interviewing better. Right? Then you can just kick back. Because then I can be like wait a minute let's just keep him out there you know what I mean instead of me trying to come in and mess it up but maybe make an appearance every so often or maybe be present but not just always available the biggest complaint I have right now from my wife and like it's a fair complaint is that I make myself too available to the point where you know my average phone time is 10 hours a day. Yeah. Because I'm talking to people connecting with people just building friendships with people and sometimes it has nothing to do with sheds. Some of the folks in this industry call me about things that are personal. They're not even shed related we just become that good of friends.

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Cord:

Yeah big questions and opportunities that that Shannon Latham needs to have space to evaluate not just shed geek right and I'm not trying to put words in your mouth here but that's just the that's kind of what you've expressed to me um you know separately is that you know these things need to these decisions about uh what opportunities what direction um you know figuring out the new media business model right those things need to happen what's to come like what's left to come you know what I mean like we're doing a Monday Friday show steel kings have been awesome shout out to those guys they've been they've been just uh terrific you know what other you know is there more to expound on in terms of like media you know how can I put myself in a more unb like look if everybody listening wants to send me money right and I'll quit and I'll quit working in moving to Patreon or yeah I'll quit working in rent own or marketing or finance that's fine but guess what you know there's mouths to feed these people want to eat and these this building call takes uh you know it takes uh money to run that air conditioning and you get what I'm saying like it's this is the industry I know so much about because I poured myself into it it's hard not to make you know a living in it but to do it unbiased I've had some of the biggest names in this industry tell me you know if you ever quit you know just holler right you got a job and I'm like wow that's crazy because about seven years ago I couldn't buy a job with all the money in the world I couldn't get anybody to believe in anything I was saying.

Shannon:

People I've knocked on the doors to wouldn't talk to me have called me and asked for my advice it's crazy you know and guess what just the way is God can elevate you like that you could fall off of that pedestal if you aren't careful. And uh I guess I'm just I'm just saying you know I I want to refocus myself I want to refocus you know what my passions are moving forward. There's so many other podcasts that are outside the industry that are even like lingering and they have been for a year now. Yeah opportunities that are that are there that I just haven't either taken or sought or pursued or made happen or whatever. How much do those play into my personal convictions and what I want to do and who I want to be in my life and so like you know there's no stop here. It's gonna keep going. I think it's just it's time to expand it but in in a way that separates your point Shannon Latham from Shed Geek. And Shed Geek doesn't have to just be me and my avatar and my logo I think it can be you and I think it can be others and you know and forges a business model that is not reliant on you putting in 16 hour days. Right well that's I never probably finished that thought which is you know for my wife it's like you know turn the phone off at five o'clock don't take 10 o'clock uh 10 p.m phone calls you know spend time with your grandbaby when she's here don't go in the other room because you need to be on a call because you need to handle something and really for people to just understand that like you know that's these phone calls that I get for people asking my advice that's why I want to I know we got a few minutes left here but you know that's why I want to turn it into consultation. Yeah. Because that's really what's been happening this whole time. So, like if I consult you for you know use of a rent to own and I have an exclusive partner with I don't I'll do that. If I have opportunity to consult you for many rent to own companies you know if marketing's the same way like I don't want to do marketing. I'd rather consult. That way I can like have some accountability on if you're not happy with your website. So, like if you're like hey I'd be curious your thoughts or you know what share the customer experience ensure the customer experience. Finance same way right e-com growth ops which is C suite. Yep, you know what I mean like we can control that because like if that's not happening you know then you can come to me and say hey we're not happy and I can say well let's make you happy. Yeah, right because we I get these calls now all the time of just like for lack of a better way of saying this to the industry and sounding insensitive I haven't monetized it. Right. Not that every commodity has to be monetized or every ideal or thought has to be monetized. What I'm saying is like that has been part of my value is that people call me and say who should I use for this who should I use for that you know I'm sorry I'm scratching on camera because I'm back sitting um but that's the reality of like my world and it's kind of like um thank you for one yeah thank you that you would you know care enough about my opinion but like how do I coexist with you in this space to kind of be like hey now you're my client and like now I can take that pressure off of you know what I mean if your Google ads aren't performing. Right. Right? Or if finance, you know, if your contracts aren't coming through and it's like well I'm getting nothing approved or rent owned customer had a bad experience and it's like what happened? Well the rent owned you know employee talked sideways to somebody like I can control that experience from a different perspective. So should geek consultation that's what's on the way.

Cord:

Yeah and um and ensuring that customer experience um I mean it you're right it is it's what you do anyway and I think it's perfectly reasonable to take some time to um figure out that business model right like we said these are all new things and it takes discovery it takes reflection it takes some peace and some quiet you know what you don't have when talking to God.

Shannon:

Yeah a lot a lot of yeah you know what you don't have you don't have a template in front of you in most cases like even a lot of people getting into rent own or getting into sheds you know what they do they go to other shed shops and they say you know how do you do this how do you do this or let's can we look around your place we just spoke to someone recently that spent six like went to six different shops in two days a whirlwind trip and like and you know what I didn't have I didn't have the opportunity to go to a shed podcaster and be like hey how did you do it?

Cord:

Right.

Shannon:

How did it go and what should I do in this situation and that situation you know and if you're not careful you know you'll never have so much help in all your life until you start something.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Because I mean I heard it all from I was going to do that to you should not do that. It's never going to work to I'll pay you to do it to you know what I mean? Like this is the way I would do it differently which is always my favorite because it's like I can't ever recall calling someone and telling them you know you need to do your business. I felt the need to not only think of this but to call you and like put it into motion. Right. This is what you should do. So, when I get those calls it always you know I think they mean well just to be clear I think these you know most of these are positive and encouraging. Yeah, occasionally you get somebody who's like well let me tell you what you're doing wrong and I'm like okay tell me because I yeah I'm good with constructive criticism. Take some feedback sure yeah I you need to you know but if it's just like Like, you know, like just straight trash. You're just like, okay, well stop doing what you're doing. Stop doing what you're doing. You know, you're like, well. So anyway, I I want to focus on this. I want to leave on a high note. Uh I think Shed Geek consultation will be even the bigger idea than even a shed geek podcast. Because I think the podcast has allowed me to even do the consultation, and I believe the consultation is what's been happening four and a half years.

Cord:

And it's what you're great at. I've watched you do it in the background, but it really is a gift. I mean, you're obviously a very good communicator, a very good connector, very good on a mic, but you're just as good, if not better, on a phone call, understanding someone's genuine issues that they can say privately that they don't necessarily want to say into a microphone.

Shannon:

That's the hardest part is the amount of information that comes to you, and like now all of a sudden what do you do with this? Right. Like what do you what do you do with it? And um, you know, I've gotten, I think I've said before, like I've gotten a lot of the things, you know. Like I've gotten the checks in the mail that say, you know, look at keep an eye on something. Any bird dog for me? Here's 10 grand. Can you do this? Can you do that? Like I know for some people that probably sounds surprising, you know, but um uh it's been it's been a reality, and probably what it did for me more than anything was made me realize, like, gosh, I don't want sometimes this pedestal.

Cord:

Yeah.

Shannon:

You know, because I don't like if it's not a a legit business model, then what good is it? Right. Because I don't want it to just be gossip.

Cord:

Then you're just holding people's information. That's right. Now you're just holding people's information. Well, I'll just say from my perspective, um, I am humbled and honored that you would even uh think of me to jump in and uh and be the sort of fill-in host. I know the plan is uh not to just completely step away, but obviously once a month or whatever, we'll jump on together, um, do some dialogues, maybe even do some co-hosting uh along this journey. But um uh for me, just thank you for considering me. I uh do not feel up to the challenge. I feel like I'm not nearly as good at this um interview and uh pulling out of people the way that you're able to, but I'm gonna step up to the plate and I'm gonna do my absolute very best. Um so thank you for having confidence in me. Well, thank you. Um I'm gonna try. Um we already have a few lined up. Uh Tyler Mahan, I believe, will be um next week. Uh following this episode, we'll see um you know she's gone back to my roots.

Shannon:

He was one of my first. Yeah. I read his articles for years in in Shed Builder magazine before it became Shed Business Journal. Uh, and uh I wanted to interview him because I was uh again, it's a it's an example, you know, like him and Charles Hutchins. I used to, I remember I used to read their articles and things like that. I wanted to interview those guys.

Cord:

Because they have good such good insights anyway. That's right.

Shannon:

Yeah, you know, and then like if you're not careful, you can get to a point to where you're like, you know, hey, I know as much as those guys.

Cord:

Right.

Shannon:

You know, and like you're fooling yourself. Well, yeah, that's the lure that comes with these opportunities. It's like, uh like I said, no one's above, no one's above reproach. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, and it's easy to start thinking that you've done something, and uh look, I know these opportunities haven't been on my own. I know where they come from. So, it for me it's just stepping back, Cord. It's just stepping back, it's letting other people step up. And for me, it's stepping back and it's like still taking care of the industry, it's just doing it in a different way. Uh three months, six months, twelve months? Yeah, who knows? I I'm not putting any I'm not putting any time limit on it, to be honest with you, right now. Um I want to I what I do want to do is grow this consultation leg.

Cord:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Uh matter of fact, I think it's the body at this point. The rest of the things are just legs underneath it. That's right. Uh whether it's finance or marketing or whatever, like I'm not, you know, we're not even doing marketing, you know. We're trying to connect you with marketers. Right. Like there's marketers out there that want to talk. Right. You know, I do have some uh you know exclusive partners in rent own and finance to some extent, but I've may I've left that a little bit open. Yeah, you know, if anybody wants to talk, I can always talk with you. Yeah, you know, I just got to be transparent and like I'm more than anything, I gotta be like good on my word to those people.

Cord:

Yeah, absolutely. So well, in endeavoring to do this, um, if you're listening, I do uh appreciate uh prayers. I can I can take as many of those um as anyone is willing to give. Uh Cord, C O R D, Cook, uh God'll know who you're talking about. And uh and uh so I'll take I'll take all of those all of those um that we can get and maybe Shannon uh it would be fitting um maybe if you if you uh pray us out and um and we will go discover this new journey.

Shannon:

Let's do it. Uh Lord, thank you. Well, I don't know what happened there if my voice just cracking. Like, fix that, Lord. Uh Lord, thank you for this day. Thank you uh for these opportunities that that come from you. Uh let us not forget, as we so often do, uh that you are sovereign, that and then that you are in charge and that that we are not. Uh just ask that you'd just bless the industry as always, bless Court on this endeavor as he moves forward with uh hosting, co-hosting, and his uh adventures in Growth Ops. I ask that you'd um just kind of watch over us, that we'd say the right things, do the right things, and that we uh be the right people um in in every situation. Uh you know how easy it is for us to fail. We constantly need your forgiveness daily. Uh and ask that you just continue to lead, guide, and direct. Uh bless this industry, it's been so good to us. So, if you have us here for another five years or another 15, um, that we would just kind of do what it is that your will is for us, um, even when it cost us a lot. Um your word says obedience is greater than sacrifice, so um let us not forget to be poor if you want us poor, let us be rich if you want us to be rich, but let us do it all in your name, regardless of what it is. And uh I just ask that you be with Cord as he moves forward. He's a great speaker, he's a great guy, he's a better friend. And uh I just ask that you just bless him with all the opportunities and uh and chances that you've given me uh because that alone will overwhelm someone and uh continue to say thank you for him and just help to keep me on the straight and narrow in always uh in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen.

Cord:

Amen. Thank you, Shannon.

OUTRO:

Appreciate you, buddy. Thanks again, Shed Pro for being the Shed Geek's studio sponsor for 2025. If you need any more information about ShedPro or about Shed Geek, just reach out. You can reach us by email at info at Shedge.com or just go to our website, www.shedgeek.com, and submit a form with your information, and we'll be in contact right away. Thank you again for listening, as always, to today's episode of the Shed Geek Podcast. Thank you and have a blessed day.