Shed Geek Podcast

Behind the Scenes at Shed Geek: Where Marketing and Faith Intersect - Part 3

• Shed Geek Podcast • Season 5 • Episode 62

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Ever wondered why some shed companies break through revenue plateaus while others stay stuck? In this revealing episode, the Shed Geek Marketing team pulls back the curtain on what truly works for growing shed businesses, especially those in the crucial $7-20 million revenue range.

We dive deep into why this particular revenue bracket represents the "sweet spot" for marketing partnerships - these companies have mastered their operations but need specialized marketing scaffolding to reach the next level. The conversation candidly addresses one of the industry's most contentious issues: data ownership. "You own everything when you work with us," we emphasize, contrasting this approach with unfortunate industry practices where companies hold client data hostage after relationships end.

The team explores how effective marketing extends far beyond websites and social media, requiring seamless integration with your entire business ecosystem - from CRMs and POS systems to 3D configurators and sales processes. For manufacturers, we challenge traditional thinking about expansion: "Your digital storefront - how many lots do you have? Because you could put the same money into your digital storefront getting it started... is it any more expensive than a new lot? Certainly not."

Looking toward the future, we examine how societal shifts toward tiny homes, ADUs, and sustainable living create expanding opportunities across the industry. "The next 50 years of the shed industry is not a zero-sum game," we note, highlighting how forward-thinking businesses should position themselves to capture disproportionate growth.

Ready to transform how you think about marketing your shed business? This episode provides the strategic framework and honest perspective you've been searching for. Connect with us at info@shedgeek.com to continue the conversation about how marketing can drive your next phase of growth.

For more information or to know more about the Shed Geek Podcast visit us at our website.

Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube at the handle @shedgeekpodcast.

To be a guest on the Shed Geek Podcast visit our website and fill out the "Contact Us" form.

To suggest show topics or ask questions you want answered email us at info@shedgeek.com.

This episodes Sponsors:
Studio Sponsor: Shed Pro

CAL
LuxGuard
Shed Sales Summit
Digital Shed Builder
Calculate Business Services

INTRO:

Hello and welcome back to the Shed Geek Podcast. Here's a message from our 2025 studio sponsor. Let's be real Running a shed business today isn't just about building great sheds. The industry is changing fast. We're all feeling the squeeze, competing for fewer buyers while expectations keep climbing. And yet I hear from many of you that you are still juggling spreadsheets, clunky software or disconnected systems. You're spending more time managing chaos than actually growing your business. That's why I want to talk to you about our studio sponsor, ShedPro. If you're not already using them, I really think you should check them out. ShedPro combines your 3D configurator, point of sale, RTO contracts, inventory, deliveries and dealer tools all in one platform. They even integrate cleanly into our Shed Geek marketing solutions, from website lead to final delivery. You can quote, contract, collect payment and schedule delivery in one clean workflow. Contract collect, payment and schedule delivery in one clean workflow. No more double entries, no more back and forth chaos. Quoting is faster, orders are cleaner and, instead of chasing down paperwork, you're actually running your business. And if you mention Shed Geek, you'll get 25% off all setup fees. Check it out at shedpro. co/ shedgeek. Thank you, ShedPro, for being our studio sponsor and, honestly, for building something that helps the industry.

Shed Geek:

Welcome back to part three of a three-part mini-series involving Shed Geek Marketing. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you guys have enjoyed this mini-series.

Shed Geek:

Our bread and butter of what we offer. If we took um everything that we threw up that we could do, or and even an endless list of what we may be willing to do, depending on where you want to go, um, if we haven't figured it out, we'll figure it out, we'll learn. We're I mean, we're just adaptable. I think that's who we want to be. But if we took the core, the nucleus of the things that we do, and we threw something at the wall and hit it, who is that going to benefit the most?

Shed Geek:

My argument is companies that are going to fall within probably $7 to $20 million, probably 7 to 20 million. Yeah, not because we can't be highly effective for 60 million, 300 million, and not that we can't be effective for your 1.8 million dollar a year company either. Dealer inquiries come in by the groves because dealers constantly want to know and we would have to do a whole nother podcast. We've already done some and we would have to do a whole other podcast. We've already done some and we'll have to do some again on branding, because we've got to start to break down like, if you're a consignment dealer, do you have access to the company's website? If not, is the company doing the thing you know? Like we could get into like just endless, but I want to focus on that. But I want to focus on that, that $7 million to $20 million seems to be our best results because they can afford the nucleus right.

Cord Coch:

Yeah.

Shed Geek:

And they're having a problem getting over to that next level.

Cord Coch:

Budget, obviously right. I mean, that's just like they can afford to build up that scaffolding. Yeah, um, but it's not just that it is, it is operations, right. If you're in that window, you have operationally figured out how to scale this part of your business, right so their mindset they come into it with this idea that, hey, we figured out how to oh, they know some stuff.

Shed Geek:

They know some stuff. They know some stuff.

Cord Coch:

They know some stuff like they're operationally, you know strong really strong and they're in this high growth phase

Wyatt Kirk:

I would say they're also in the process of becoming that right, like my favorite clients are the ones that are coming to us asking, like, what other softwares do I need to pair along with this CRM great question, you know. So now that's when I get excited. It's like, well, I like the way this thing does this and this software does this, and just putting all of that together is very exciting to do from scratch. That's what I meant. You've got it.

Shed Geek:

About being drug into stuff.

Shed Geek:

That's what I meant earlier.

Shed Geek:

And like let's just take the mask off. All of a sudden I got to start talking about POS, ERP, 3d configurators.

Cord Coch:

You got to.

Shed Geek:

I have to start talking about CRMs.

Shed Geek:

I have to start talking about your sales process,

Cord Coch:

critical parts of success.

Shed Geek:

I have to ask questions and, like we've been fortunate enough to like have a really good relationship with, I would say, the majority, there are some softwares in the industry that are more difficult to work with.

Cord Coch:

Yeah, more difficult, certainly fair, but I don't I wouldn't categorize anything as being any more than that.

Cord Coch:

Right, like we work with everybody, we can we can figure out how to do it all, but I mean,

Shed Geek:

if you're willing, if you're willing if you're willing, you have to come to the table and say like look, we want to work with you and it's like look, it's not about working with us, it's about working with our client. And if we share a client, we need to be able to help that client. And if you won't come across the aisle because of some preconceived notion or some idea of like, you don't like something else we're doing or whatever, then you're holding up process for our shared client.

Cord Coch:

Yeah.

Shed Geek:

I don't know what else to do and it's hard to stand.

Cord Coch:

It's hard to like stand on that leg. I mean it's hard to justify that sort of you know. I mean I guess maybe we are I don't want to call it naive, because I don't like to think about it that way but we all want to do the best for our clients every day. There's just no two ways about that for me. We will willingly and Dylan will say this too we will willingly downsell into what's appropriate. We will again consultative, we will downsell you into the google ads package that fits your budget because, look you, you know you don't need this big thing with all these campaigns.

Cord Coch:

You need something that fits your budget, where your one or two campaigns are. Now google's gotten really great, where they have these, the, the variable, uh, creative campaigns, so they actually go and match the keywords for you and shift that on. Anyway, my point is you're much better off to have a really great optimized single keyword campaign than you are to be spreading your dollars too thin, and we will tell you that we will gladly take less money, so like it kind of you know. I mean, obviously we understand competition and everything else.

Shed Geek:

Obviously, we understand competition and everything else, but it just makes you tense up whenever other people aren't willing to have that same approach with a client. I think that there's definitely some moves toward wanting to be wholly operational or vertically integrated to be able to solve all the problems, or vertically integrated to be able to solve all the problems, and I think that what you're finding is that's where the rubber meets the road in terms of acquisitions and mergers and things like that, and who you're willing to work with, and some want to have complete ownership and vertical integration, control the data we give. Just to be clear, I want to say this because it's a good, perfect, prime time to say that you own everything. Yep, when you work with us, you own it, you own it.

Shed Geek:

Ask even the person who left. We said, hey, you know, here's all your data. Yeah, they're there within 24 hours. I had problems that we had to start fixing. Right, we had to be a consultation for the person who left because their new marketing company didn't set them up for success already. Right, and it's just like well, you know, really, you shouldn't be asking us these questions if you decided to leave but like, but we're gonna be helpful.

Cord Coch:

So here you go, we're gonna be, we're gonna be.

Shed Geek:

We walked through it and we said this is what you need to do. But that's what's frustrating, because it's like really, someone should be walking you through all this Like we could have let you lose all of that. We didn't let you lose all of it, nor did we hold any of it hostage and make you sue us to get it. Like we're going to give it to you. You own it. It's your digital assets.

Cord Coch:

We'll facilitate it, right Like we will facilitate your ownership of all of the data, the deliverables. When we think of creative deliverables, whether that's video assets or picture assets or whatever else, not only will we not hold it hostage, we will actively facilitate whatever that is, because you paid for it, it's yours.

Shed Geek:

But it is frustrating. Let's be honest, guys. Of course it is.

Wyatt Kirk:

It is frustrating when you're like gosh, you know nothing worse than being, you know, like having someone leave, and then be like, hey, I need your help here, and you're like, uh, okay, okay, I want to help, so we're going to be helpful and as frustrating as it is, though I would say, you know, I just seeing different clients on board the more frustrating thing is being on the opposite end of that, when you're onboarding a client and they have a another company holding their data hostage and just knowing what that?

Wyatt Kirk:

that feels like not even on, you know from the client's perspective just from my perspective, you're now making my job much more difficult. Yeah, because of this, you know holding this data hostage or this account you don't actually own.

Shed Geek:

You just put the other branch out. Hey, I want to help this guy. Will you help me help this guy? Since we share them as a client, will you help me help your client?

Cord Coch:

Good practices amongst peers and I'll tell you what. And I mean, you know, you're the man here, but as far as deciding when it starts and when it stops, but uh, we are both newly uh, newly found cpap users, yeah, and I'll tell you what, why it's not yet, but I think everybody could use a cpap. But I'll tell you what I'm

Shed Geek:

life changing for me already.

Cord Coch:

And partly because the c-pap, but partly because I believe in why we do business, how we work, our dedication to our clients.

Cord Coch:

I sleep great every single night,

Shed Geek:

Absolutely yep

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Shed Geek:

Like I've even told people I've used this comment here lately. Maybe I'm getting too deep for the podcast, but I use the comment here lately. I said oh, don't get me wrong, I'm. It's not that you're not going to hear some bad things about me. I just want them to prove it to you, because that's what I'm waiting on, is I'm waiting for the data to show that I'm dishonest, unfair or have done someone wrong. Matter of fact, this microphone's open. It's open to everyone in the industry. We've opened it up to even people we compete with.

Shed Geek:

Come on and challenge thoughts, because guess what? This industry gets better whenever we have hard conversations the idea that we should sit inside an echo chamber and like preach to ourselves. No, is terrible. Like I need to be challenged. We the one thing that I I know that I wouldn't say makes you guys nervous, but I'm like, challenge these guys. Yeah. Yeah, if you know more, guess what? We want to pick your brain.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, we want to learn from you like you can't beat someone willing to continue to learn, like we refuse to be like we have all the answers and we're perfect and we have it all figured out, because we know that we're not so. We want more conversation to come on here that helps the industry as a whole, and we're realistic enough to know that we can't serve all. Look, if every one of you came and said we want to work with you right now, we're gonna let you down.

Shed Geek:

There's no way we can take on everybody anyway right we and we've experienced this with, with, with marketing already when a company comes to us and says I'm at 1.8, I want to double this year, do you really? Do you really, even if we could help you double, because now you're going to run into lumber shortages? Where's your buying power? Can your production keep up? Are you going to have to start a new bay? Can your delivery guys? Well, I hire a guy out. What's going to happen? Well, he'll get a new truck. What if he can't? Well, I'll hire another guy Like there's. I'll hire another guy Like there's. You haven't thought about the price of success. And, to be honest with you, neither have we. Yeah, neither have we. Yeah, and it and it landed us in a lost client. Yeah, you know what I mean. Because we didn't think about the price of success, we didn't think about what we were going to have to do when things started going well. Because I don't know about you guys fall back on.

Shed Geek:

Yep, my parents prepared me to fail yeah, this is a middle class, but they never, never, prepared me to succeed, right?

Shed Geek:

what do you do then? Because I'm out here with my name on something that's gotta make people believe in it and we gotta produce. And if we don't produce or we fail in one area, guess who gets the blame? I told you earlier I get a lot of credit for you guys. Guess who gets the blame? Yeah, yeah, guess who gets the blame. And you know what. You don't deserve any of it. I do because it's a lack of vision if we don't put the right things in motion. So, I accept the blame, I take it wholeheartedly in stride and strive to do better.

Cord Coch:

And we will learn from it absolutely you know, one thing we absolutely we.

Cord Coch:

We may hate having tough conversations or hate losing a client. Um, hate all those things. I'll tell you what just makes me suffer, and I mean just smoke coming out of my ears. Matt is making the same mistake twice. We, we do not accept it, we can't stand it, we will not do it. Yeah, so you know, that's just a line that we all draw in the sand for ourselves you know, and I, and I want to say, yeah, I'm gonna say this.

Shed Geek:

I think it's okay, this was a smaller client yeah, in that relatively speaking, in all of our client lists, probably bottom 10 in terms of like and in that range that you're talking about.

Cord Coch:

That's just really hard right, it's.

Shed Geek:

It's in that growth range that like but there was never a conversation that was like we can afford to lose that that conversation never turned into. We can afford to lose that I don't care your size.

Cord Coch:

Devastated, devastated.

Shed Geek:

Devastated and did all we could to say how do we solve this problem so that this problem doesn't exist again? Maybe we will. Maybe we'll have more failures.

Cord Coch:

I'm quite certain we'll have more failures, yeah but I'll tell you what I know for sure is that, despite our failures, we left, as I mean you know, whatever.

Wyatt Kirk:

Uh, I'm like it feels it feels.

Cord Coch:

You know I'm just again our upbringing or whatever it is right, our, our belief system, uh, doesn't allow me to brag, but you know, not only do we leave the door open, I feel like we left with, um, um, you know, with our intent and our purpose and what we are here to do out on the table, and everybody understands it.

Cord Coch:

And I will not be surprised one bit if, whatever the time frame is 6, 12, 18, 24 months in the future, like we, we are we're going to be considered to, to go back to them at some point and do a great job and I guarantee you we will, because the pain and the sting of this will be as fresh in all of our minds as it is today, because that's just the way we're all wired which is good Before we go.

Shed Geek:

You know, what breaks my heart, probably more than anything, is the calls we get from dealers. I mentioned that earlier and there's so many dealers out here and we talk to them all the time about just the basic necessity, like. Here's how I'm going to break it down to any of the dealers who are listening today, especially who inquire about marketing. Here's the problem. Let's say you're a consignment dealer and you sell a million dollars a year. It's a pretty successful lot. Right At a million dollars. Let's just assume that it's a pretty standard 10%. Let's say your revenue is 100K by the time you take your expenses out, your lot, rent, you pay yourself, you do all this. It sounds like a lot, lot, but is there hardly enough money left for you to establish an effective marketing campaign? Because just this, the same as like if you say I want to get into the shed business and I want to start manufacturing building sheds, there is a cost to lumber, there's a cost to nails and there's a cost to nail guns. You know that is just um rudimentary for you to be able to, to start.

Shed Geek:

And that's what breaks my heart the most is like how can we help them, especially if they're consigning and they're 1099 and they've had to create their own brand. And then how complex is that when you're fragmenting your brand because you sell for XYZ company? But now you're, you know Bass Pro Buildings, and it's like is Bass Pro Buildings ever going to be a 30-lot facility or are you going to probably have just the one? Are you going to have two or three? You know, and we get so caught up in. People know our brand, people know what we. It takes so much if you go out and ask just go to lunch today, go to lunch today and ask your waitress I was thinking about getting a storage shed. What's the name of the company that does storage sheds?

Cord Coch:

And you're most of the time going to get.

Shed Geek:

I just go to Lowe's or Home Depot, the biggest companies, the 300 millions, 500 millions. Most of the time, if you took a, if you, if you took you know, uh, 10 people, I mean I think that nine plus percent of the time yeah, you're not going to get someone who can name a company and we get so caught up in thinking we're actually doing it better. But I'm a local legend. Well, maybe probably 100 people in your community do know that you're Boobaloo Sheds.

Cord Coch:

Yeah right.

Shed Geek:

You know I'm not taking that away from you. What I'm saying is do 150 people, mile radius, do they know you? Yeah, can they find you, can they see you? And do they just think of Boobaloos whenever it's time to buy a shed? Or do they get on and say, shed's near me, boom, start looking for who has website authority, good presence, good like, hey, these guys got great social media following. Hey, look at all these cool videos. Oh, look, it's. You know this guy with the beard and the glasses. I like him, he's. Yeah, I see him all the time and it's hard for us.

Cord Coch:

You're like, yeah, you're doing a great job of like putting it into how, the how it, but it's hard for us because if that dealer level person is the person coming to us, then that's who we're being consultative to. And if we're being consultative to that individual dealer lot that is not company branded or you know that is whatever that is not big company branded, then our honest opinion for that person has to be control your brand, your yeah, as a preacher friend would of mine would say, you're meddling and and we're going to meddle here for just a minute.

Shed Geek:

We're over an hour already. This might be a four-part series but like

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Shed Geek:

If you were a manufacturer and you came to me and you said what is the best thing that we can do, well, I'm consulting you. You just said control your brand. Franchise your Facebook pages, control your brand. If you can do it, go to W2. Do a McDonald's model Own your lots.

Cord Coch:

That's too expensive. Have your own 3D builder. Yeah, I mean like yeah, oh you can go far.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, yeah, oh, you can go far yeah, control your assets.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, right, control your assets, yeah have your own trucking, do your own building, if you really want to know. I can't afford to do that. Perfectly reasonable, perfectly reasonable, like who could like? Only so many, so many? Can you know? So? So, then it's like well, okay, well then, this is what we would do. This direction, blah, blah, blah. If you're a dealer and you come to us and you say I do this, you are a 1099 dealer, which means you're an independent contractor, so you are not an employee of this company, correct, correct, okay. Then I'm going to treat you like a business owner and tell you this is what you need to do. You need to control your brand. You need to set yourself up in such a way that, if you ever switch vendors, you know that, like, you have control of that. But there's a, we could get into it.

Shed Geek:

I've got a guy coming up before too long that we're doing like and you know we've got Calculate you know Kirk Paquette and Clark Paquette and they do some advertising with us. They do some business services, some fractional C-level CEO type stuff and things like that. But I've got another guy coming up. One of our listeners, james Lynn, actually put me on to this guy. I talked to him yesterday. He seems excellent. So shout-out to James. Thank you for connecting me to this potential future or what will be this future podcast guest.

Cord Coch:

You know, and talking about your numbers as a whole and understanding business as a whole and, like you know, like understanding where your place is if you're a consignment dealer, like if you are a consignment dealer, you run a business yes, you're, you're accompanying a provider, but you're a business owner, like so because, because the problem with those conversations is that if we take off the hat of the 1099 dealer that is talking to us and we just zoom out and we just get a 10,000 foot view and say what is our true consultation for this location, the true consultation is that that that, uh, a bigger company should be supplying you with the value that you're coming to us and asking about. Right, the true answer.

Shed Geek:

Let me play devil's advocate for just a quick, quick second. Sure, they're already giving you two hundred thousand dollars of free buildings on your lot with no net 10, no net 30, no net 90, so you you're not having to wholesale purchase these things, you get free inventory. Can they then also be responsible for creating all of your marketing budget?

Cord Coch:

well, they got the logo on it that's theirs, right? So, there's either an expectation that you go build their brand identity in a way that is or is not up to their standard. Who knows? I mean, the landscape here is vastly different. Now, you know this is done different ways across different industries. I've been in lawn equipment, tractors, power equipment, you know, so there's like a co-op idea where, by the way, me people don't know this about you.

Shed Geek:

You're like a franchising expert. There's so many things that you know. You guys always say such kind things about me. I wish I could just sit and give y'all's resume half the time to people, because they don't know what they're missing by not just calling and having a conversation with you. Yes, I spend time podcasting and on the phone, doggone it. We could hire 10 people and you guys could be doing the same thing, because you're that valuable.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, I mean seriously you guys are that valuable that you could just sit and probably spend eight hours on the phone talking to people and probably put other people to work doing some of these, some of these task- oriented things.

Cord Coch:

But we try to learn, I mean at the, at the, at a minimum, but um, but you know, I think at, whether it's a, a system of co-op, where as long as you stick to brand guidelines, then the dealer can the dealer level you know can spend the money and then they get reimbursed for x percent.

Cord Coch:

Um, some of the companies that I worked with uh, um, whenever we grew, Hoyer Outdoor Equipment. Uh, over in Brookport, Illinois, whenever I was there, um, some of those companies would do a hundred percent co-op payback up to a cap. Some of them would do 30, 40, 50 percent on every dollar spent and some companies do a co-op yeah right shed industry you know there are ways that, like you can, you can offer that value.

Cord Coch:

Um, you know, I mean, if you're honestly asking me that question about 200k versus lead gen or whatever, if I'm being totally honest I would say, well, if that's the calculus that's going into it, then my consultation to a company that viewed it like that would be then why don't, why don't you put 160k dude right like why don't you, why don't you reduce that inventory number?

Shed Geek:

yes, because ultimately, so or another lot altogether. Like the conversation I've had recently is like, how many lots you got? We've got 35 lots. Your digital storefront how many lots do you have? What do you mean? Do you have even one? Because you could put the same money into your digital storefront getting it started. But you'll say this is expensive and I'm like is it any more expensive than a new lot?

Cord Coch:

Certainly not.

Shed Geek:

And then they're like no, and I'm like, okay, and it's going to produce how much? Oh, and, by the way, it takes away all of those pesky problems, like dealers that you've had for 20 years, who are good old boys and good old gals that we all know and love, right, that sell sheds, but they say I ain't getting on facebook, right, I don't care about technology, I don't care about any of this stuff that they're talking about, and I'll never do it and I won't be a dealer. And it's like, well, we don't want to upset the dealer network.

Cord Coch:

Cool, you don't have to well, yeah, right, exactly, but like the, the approach of just saying that big brand, however, we want to, you know, name that or discuss it, that, that, that larger umbrella brand also. Then, like again, true consultative hat here. Like what's the right way is that all of those activities you know, uh, digital marketing activities, lead generation, providing those assets and having a much more lead gen focus relationship with your dealers, provides the, the carrot that you need to actually get those people who don't, who aren't going to do this or whatever, right, like it provides. Like when you go to a dealer meeting and like the talk at the, the table or the conference or, you know, in the conference room or wherever you're at, turns into well, we're up 30 percent. Right, you know. And you're sitting there saying, well, I mean, I'm basically having the same year I had last year, I'm marginally up or marginally down, and everybody else here is using these tools. Right, like now you start to put real carrots out there in front of them.

Cord Coch:

There's that are saying, like, you have to. And then you know, obviously, with the carrot comes the stick and if you're evaluating these people and they're not using the tools that allow you to get 30% more sales out of your location or whatever. I mean, we're just making up numbers here, but whatever it might be right, then you have to have you know the stick and say, look, you know we expect that in a town this size, in a location like this or whatever it might be, you know we could put up a digital storefront right and expect to have basically the same results, if not better that's right for the people who's like.

Shed Geek:

Well, you're trying to eliminate the dealer.

Shed Geek:

False, absolutely not great customer service will always well it is the manufacturer's place to grow how they want to. Anyway, you can choose to distribute the leads however you prefer. You can do zip code distribution if that's what you want to do. If you want to do an in-house model where there's somebody they're selling, if you want to pass that on to us, if we ever create something we'll sell them.

Shed Geek:

Um, if we get there, I don't even know if we're going to go there, like that's the problem. You know, when people say I'm doing too much, they ain't got to do doing too much, it's doing a good job at anything you're doing. I don't want to just start something and just be another. You know, I said earlier people get the unfair um constitution you know of. Like I want to start a business, it'll never work. It's also because we have over-promised and under-delivered so much in this industry that people are like burnt and I'm like man, let's just don't do anything until we do it. Well, probably part of our conversation about losing a client, you know, it's like we're perfectionists. We don't like that. We suffer from perfectionism. We don't want to lose one. It's perfectly reasonable to lose one in 50,. We don't want to lose one. It's perfectly reasonable to lose one in 50, 60 clients, perfectly reasonable. In terms of retention, I think we've done pretty good, but still it irks, doesn't it?

Shed Geek:

it irks like everybody here is just like. This will never happen. You know what I mean. It's just like you know like we'll make sure to solve. We'll turn over every rock. Well, you know what I mean. It's like you know 16 hours of work ain't enough. We'll work 24 to solve. We'll turn over every rock. You know what I mean. It's like 16 hours of work ain't enough. We'll work 24 hours.

Wyatt Kirk:

We'll work eight days a week. What do you want?

Shed Geek:

We're going to solve this problem.

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I can't wait to be in Knoxville at this year's Shed Sales Summit. I hope to see you there.

Shed Geek:

I think we. I think we do. I love these conversations because these are just open. These podcasts are just open to give people a chance to see who you guys are.

Shed Geek:

They do talk about high level things, but I just I can't come. I'm going to end it. We keep saying we're going to end it because this is a three part already. I just can't help but like, if what you want from us in a quote is to just give you a price and beat the next guy. I suppose we can travel down that road. I don't think that that's the identity of who we are and I think we'd rather not do this if we can't do a good job, and I don't just want to beat the next guy in price.

Shed Geek:

I want to talk with you about your dreams, your goes, your vision. I want to know where you're going. I want to know like we're going to get into some details with you. We're going to get into Dylan says the down and dirty. Uh, you know, that's what he always says. We're going to get in your business. We want to know where are you going. Oh well, you're just doing marketing for us. Why do you want to know that, bro? Because we got to know what you're trying to accomplish. Are you trying to go from 10 to 20 mil? Then let's get you there. Let's figure out a plan to make it happen define success, right?

Cord Coch:

I mean, like this is something that doesn't even get talked enough, talked about enough. You know, in normal conversations, right? I mean just, uh, in the conversations we all have with each other, you think about these types of things a lot. But, like you know, like we, it's easy to define success as 10 to 20, right?

Cord Coch:

or 10 to 15, or we're just setting reasonable uh goals, which all that is good, right, but you know I mean for me, right, like if somebody asked me, um, you know, to define success for myself, you know it is, um, uh, building a home that will last for as many generations as my kids and their kids and their kids care to live in it. Right, that's what success looks like for me is leaving something on our family farm. You know that, that, as long as people are interested in being on the farm that my four greats grandfather uh lived on, as long as they want to live there.

Cord Coch:

Hopefully one day somebody will talk about me as their four greats grandfather used to live right here on this spot in this house or whatever, right and so, like you know, that's a different definition of success than us sitting around talking about, you know, 10 to 20, right, I mean that that's talking about okay, well, uh, what's it going to take to get that house built? You know what I mean? That's these are, and, but these are the types of things that you know, understanding what success, defining success for each company, for each person in that company, for each division of that company, is really important what does success look like for Wyatt?

Wyatt Kirk:

I, I was just thinking to me, like all conversation that we've had in these two parts, I feel like they all kind of boil down to goals. So, for me I would say success is when those goals are met. But I, our CFO, had mentioned something that was. It's really stuck with me ever since she mentioned it. And then there's kind of another piece of advice that I had picked up from a podcast I was listening to and they both pair really well together.

Wyatt Kirk:

But the first one is you don't make your. Your goals are not your metrics. All right, so if you make your goal, your metric, you are not going to get anywhere at all. Right, your metrics are what helps you obtain the goal. And if, for even in like personal life right, I was talking to my wife we're trying to save up by house, right, so that may be the goal, but then we have to establish metrics, well then, once we've had our metrics established, it then becomes really easy.

Wyatt Kirk:

Because that second piece of advice I heard was any, once your goals are clearly established, every single decision you make becomes really easy. Because you ask yourself does it contribute to the goal? And if the answer is no, you simply don't do it goal? And if the answer is no, you simply don't do it. And so for me, success is the ability to identify what those goals are and then achieve those goals, and if I'm not meeting those, you know, being able to figure out why, and then maybe my goal is unrealistic, right, and just having a clear vision of that to me is what success looks like, because you're comfortable with what you have done, you have set a target and hit that, and if you're doing that, I mean I don't think you're really stoppable in any way right.

Wyatt Kirk:

I mean, like you, if you have that nailed down, there's not much that can slow you down other than yourself.

Shed Geek:

Got a month's worth of content coming in today and the truth is we could sit here and do a podcast every morning, like we could probably sit here and do one every morning at 6 am, because the shed industry is made up of people and people. They have a lot of life going on. You know whether it's talking about our faith, talking about our goals, talking about your goals, talking about sheds, talking about carports, talking about steel structures, barn does, horse run-ins, animal shelters, dog kennels, chicken coops, furniture, sales, marketing, pos, erp, seo, crms and then rto and all the people and then all the people that make all those things go around right, I mean, like all those relationships and yeah, yeah, it's, uh, I love it.

Cord Coch:

I mean I'm, I'm still, I still consider myself fresh. I mean I'm the easily the junior member in the industry sitting at this table and, uh, you know, really in this office, except for the new CRM hires and everything but um, I mean I've just come to love it so fast I think, I think we're just uh just thankful for this industry, you know I mean it's really definitely made a huge impact on all of our lives, and sad that Dylan's missing this episode with us, but maybe I'll hop on another one if we do a part four.

Shed Geek:

Can't say enough about that guy and appreciate what he's done, his leadership and just the everything, how he's gotten involved, the talents, the talents of this team, the unsung heroes, the Christians and the Nathaniels and the Davids, and you know what I mean, like a lot of the people who are behind the scenes. You know that don't get a lot of credit.

Cord Coch:

We're really encouraging Nathaniel to do some more client interactions and things. He's such a great guy, such a lovable person. And actually to Wyatt's point about the Knicks.

Shed Geek:

I didn't talk about this. A lot of people have met Nick, though. Oh yeah, Nick Henley.

Cord Coch:

Nick and Nathaniel both. But Nathaniel's one of his KPIs to Wyatt's point. There one of his KPIs is to just kind of go be creative with his time right. Go pick a client, be creative. Let's see what they think about it right, like, let's shoot it over to him and he's going to do such a great job with that, so anyway, the ability to do animations that he does that you guys haven't even seen.

Shed Geek:

Maybe a couple things here and there.

Shed Geek:

My favorite thing to do is every time a client comes here is like bring them in here with Nathaniel and say name two animals and he'll combine them and draw it put it on the whiteboard there's no lack of creativity, and I think it was, um, um, Maya Angelou and maybe I'm saying it wrong or name wrong, but uh, that said, you know, the thing about creativity is the more of it, the more you more you use creativity, the more of it you have. And that's the thing about us is we've never stopped being creative. Like you, you know, I have a sign in my office that says if you can't stop thinking about it, don't quit working for it. Right, like, why is it on your mind? You, what I mean? Like, um, there's so many things that have changed my life, philosophies and thoughts and memes and all the little stuff that you know just really take root in your, you know, in your soul as seed and then, uh, they grow to be this really cool thing. I mean, it's just a podcast. At the end of the day, you can say whatever you want. It's just a podcast, just a bunch. End of the day, you can say whatever you want, but it's just a podcast, just a bunch of people talking. But I think it's made up of experiences and life experiences and people's experiences and business people.

Shed Geek:

Simon Sinek says if you don't know, if you don't realize that 100% of businesses are people. If you don't know people, you don't know business.

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Cord Coch:

You know that's still true today, although we're getting to it, yeah, kind of blurring the line. Lines are starting to blur. Yeah, that's right.

Shed Geek:

Well, it's been. It's definitely always enjoyable talking with you guys, having you on here. I think you guys add so much value. You know each podcast is different. I have people tell me I don't listen to every one. I'm like I get it. I have favorite podcasts and I don't listen to every one of them. I hope you're blessed by my content today the rawness, the realness of what it is. If not, we'll get away from that. But you know, uh, we love to listen to the listeners, love to have you on as a guest. This is really cool dialogue here today, uh, between us internally.

Cord Coch:

But the, the, the interview style with having people on, you know, um it would be cool to almost have you know a discovery, or even a discovery for just a service with a like on a podcast with a person here, like I think that would be. I wish someone would contact us.

Shed Geek:

I'm gonna go out on a limb here. I wish someone would contact us who's interested in marketing services and you're willing to let us from. We don't even know you. We haven't talked to you yet. I don't want to set up anything. Yeah, right, if you're interested and you're willing to let us turn your discovery call into a podcast oh, that'd be so awesome if you're willing to allow us to do that, because we work toward record our calls for note taker purposes.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, you know what I mean. Like we got to go back and like, like, like, like make sure we didn't miss something. But if you're willing to call and say, hey, from the get go, when we schedule that first discovery call, let's turn it into a Zoom call, let's turn it into a process and just watch how that works. We're open.

Cord Coch:

We're open to it and that'd be so valuable for anybody who's on the fence or is unsure to just take that first step. My goodness that would be. It'd be so much. We have a lot of fun on those calls. Yeah, I mean, you know, because we are, we're digging in and this is what we love.

Shed Geek:

Well, it might be opening up that's the thing. It might be opening up a little bit of vulnerability for your company. So, you're willing to. Maybe we need to, you know, edit out particular numbers or something like that for your benefit Like we don't care what the quote on Chet's house professional to you today, Right.

Shed Geek:

You know, somebody is like man, you put your prices out there. Like we told you, we're not afraid of prices. We got to get to what the price should be based off, what you need, right, correct, and then we'll share it. We'll share it with everybody, I don't care what gets out there in front of people. Look, we've been like yeah, we talk about in the weeds, we've been copied. Yeah, we've been copied in ways that we know we can prove it. We've never even told them Right, fine, yeah, I fine yeah I know people are gonna people.

Shed Geek:

That's what people do. Yeah, people are gonna be people. It's okay. Um, we're gonna keep head down, nose to the grindstone and we're gonna work for you. So give us a call. Some of the best guys I've ever worked with in my life I promise you they have a. They have a. Here's the beauty cord. Why use an outside industry or outside? Someone outside the industry got no problems with it. Why should I? It doesn't matter. What we do have that's a competitive advantage is we've got over 50, now nearing 60 clients of data that we can pull from, best services and practices. We don't have to mention those companies. We don't have to talk about them. But hey, this is what we learned over here in Idaho. This may help you in Florida or Texas or New York, because this is I know it's different demographic, but we have a company about your size that did this, made these moves. That's invaluable. That's one of the coolest things is like we can pull our experience, yeah, into the fray and say, hey, look, you know we.

Shed Geek:

You don't have to tell us what a gambler roof is, and you don't have to tell us what a gambler roof is, and you don't have to tell us who the 3D configurators are. We know them, we talk to them every day, like you know POS systems and just like all the stuff.

Cord Coch:

We've got direct contacts at all these places that answer the phone when we call, even if they don't answer the phone when you dial in, because we work with them every day.

Shed Geek:

I mean we have to, we have to we have to, and your benefit and as long as they're willing to work back with us.

Shed Geek:

And I don't know, some of them are like, hey, like what you're doing, want to compete. Well, you know, come on. Yes, like, here's the one thing I promise I'll give to you. Is the same thing whenever people say well, aren't you worried? Someone else does a podcast. No, matter of fact, my challenge is do better. Do better than me, because it will encourage me to do better. I should not sit in the same echo chamber that I accuse people of and say no one should get to do this or do this. It's America. You go, do what you want. I don't care what you start. The pie is going to grow.

Cord Coch:

I mean, like we have macro trends here as an economy, as a society, right that like. I mean you know anyone who's watching that has any kind of tiny home, mention ADU, accessory dwelling unit, mention are doing full finish outs and even mention that or have ads running for that right, like the society is moving towards. I'm on the city council now in Metropolis and we just had to have a debate about how many chickens you can have in the city.

Wyatt Kirk:

I've been watching the chicken drama.

Cord Coch:

Great drama, right, but like we're moving in this direction and this is what I said was basically that like we need think about, as a city, what we're saying to young people, because here's the bottom line with young people, they realize that processed food and the way that we have built the systems around us for the last frankly post-war-ish right, I mean certainly starting in the 70s with roundup and some of the harsher uh chemical stuff.

Cord Coch:

But my point is not to get in, I mean, my goodness, not to get into all that specifically, but the point is people are coming back to a more traditional way of living. Yeah, um, that involves, uh, not just food, but uh, less debt, right, less debt and a more sustainable life, whether you think about that from a food perspective or a money perspective or just a waste perspective. How many square feet do me and my wife? You know my daughter's, you know she's now a junior in high school, she'll be a senior this coming year. How many square feet do we need? Yeah, right, and this, and we're even a little ahead of the curve of the actual generational shift that is happening in this country right now and like sheds and portable structures and custom built onsite structures and affordable solutions that are that are able to be granted to people at costs that are reasonable and that solve problems and can be financed or can be RTO, like all these things. Like the pie is going to keep growing, right?

Shed Geek:

So, we, you know, to me… it's just a matter of time, cord, cord, before we do, probably a tiny home podcast, but. But you know, like it's just probably a matter of time before we get into that world, because so many manufacturers can serve both the minimalistic mindset, you know, uh, downsize, you know, mindset, uh, of Gen Z now, uh, you know, but you can also serve the gen x and baby boomers and the, the thought of excess and storage and traditional storage. I need a place to put my old Corvette, I need a place to put my motorcycle or my whatever you have your mower.

Cord Coch:

The next 50 years of the shed industry is not a zero-sum game, right? This is not. Can I elbow out the next guy? Yeah, this pie is gonna grow. Make it a bigger pie, you know now you know there's gonna be competition, there's gonna be people consolidate, there's gonna people go out of business just because, just because the macro trend is growth doesn't mean that there's not going to be a handful of companies that do that grow the heck of a lot better than everybody else. So, my advice would be one of them.

Shed Geek:

A lot of things are gonna you start keeping your eye on ai, start keeping your eye on automation and the manufacturing yeah, I'm telling you, there's some crazy conversations I'm having that I don't get to share, unfortunately, with some really cool people who I keep asking to come on the podcast and they're giving me a maybe, uh, but they're doing cool stuff and fun stuff and I think it's awesome.

Shed Geek:

I look, I'm here for it all. Like we made our living in this world. We want to be a part of it. If you'll let us be a part of it. Like it's been fun. It's already been fun going into year five. It's like I wake up every day and I'm like I'm not, I'm not discouraged. The difference is and I'll tell up, be with you. It's between us three girls here. You know it's turned into a job. Yeah.

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Shed Geek:

So, I do have a passion project and setting on my wings back here that I'm thinking about. I'm still very passionate about this, but I did this when it made me no money. I did this because it was just fun. I admit that it's a job now. Sure, like just being honest with you, it's a it's a job now. Um, I haven't lost my passion for it, but I'm more fueled by having you guys involved and other people involved like I want you to tell your story, because I think people, if we don't talk about marketing, sales or ever do business together, I've got friends in this industry that I'll never do business with. I want to talk about life with you. Come on here and talk about how you got started. Other people are encouraged. You know.

Shed Geek:

I got one guy who tells me I love to listen to podcasts. I was like, come on mine. He's like I don't know and I'm like you love to listen to podcasts. He's like, yeah, I was like somebody's got to be a guest on that for you to listen to. Other people want to hear from you too. I'm not going to ask you about your trade secrets on the on the podcast. Share what you want, but? But come on and have a high- level conversation that creates good content that makes people want to listen.

Shed Geek:

Um, uh, and if you say, well, I'm not much of a public speaker or I'm afraid of public speaking, look, me too, I'm not either this ain't public I mean, maybe I'm a bit more polished now than I was when I started, but the reality is I started when I was nervous. Yeah, you know, I was nervous and I was scared and it was worthy of being, you know, of talking to someone about. So, whether it's the Steel Kings on Monday, us on Wednesday, Sam on Fridays, do a tiny home podcast, whatever, I don't know. It's like, let's go, I'm ready to. I'm ready to keep going and I will fuel my passions 100 passion in some other direction, but I'm gonna keep doing what we're doing. So, thank you guys for being on today.

Shed Geek:

This is easy two-parter, so we got three now let's see if we can get another one who knows, maybe we're done for the day, but any final thoughts that you guys want real quick, anything that you want to say to anybody, any shout-outs to anybody?

Cord Coch:

Oh gosh, I mean, you know you hate to be like.

Shed Geek:

Start name-dropping all the customers.

Cord Coch:

Well, you hate to, but I mean, Nick and I just had such a great time going out. Not to turn this into a pitch, but we're doing this premier content capture package where you know one of the biggest things and just getting people to stop the scroll the effectiveness of your advertising, how well we can optimize and ultimately drive that cost per ratio down, is just how good your content is. Me and nick had such a great time out in North Carolina. We flew out there. There's a direct flight from Paducah to Charlotte. Now, um had such a great time out there. I won't start name dropping and uh all that because you know um I saw you was out there, but Howie sent me a picture.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, yeah, we uh, you know.

Cord Coch:

Yeah, yeah, we had a we had a great time and did really great work, which is obviously the point of it. But I mean, it is the people, right, it's the people that you get to spend time with, and those people aren't always just the top dogs, right, Like it's not just about president, CEO, founder of the company, you know we have. You get surprisingly really great content out of the guys who are working in the plant, right. You get really great content out of, you know, one of the local dealers who's just so great.

Shed Geek:

Are some of the people, not some of the coolest people. That's what I was about to say.

Wyatt Kirk:

Like. My shout-out would just be to our clients in general and anybody that we've had discussions with, right even people who haven't became our clients. Like this past year a little over a year now that I've been doing this like it has been the most fun I have had at work because of the people.

Shed Geek:

I mean job offers. You're getting behind our back here, Wyatt.

Wyatt Kirk:

Well, none as of yet, but uh, no, it really has been, isn't that?

Shed Geek:

the nature of the industry. I want that.

Cord Coch:

Oh yeah, you know, I think I'll just hire them I think there's, you know, I think, like I know that that's like something that we all are aware of, but I also think that like there's a sneaky the way that like we live, or you specifically, but like we're much more just public doing this than so many other companies, that I think there's a little tinge of like oh gosh, if we go try and poach somebody, Shannon's going to have a veiled… A special episode dedicated to this.

Shed Geek:

I just assume that you're getting job offers all the time. I just assume that you're getting job offers all the time. I've been around the block enough to know that that's typically the way most industries work, but this one is very bad about it. Oh, I'll just work my way in there, get to know them and hire them away, because I want that now. And that's why conversations of no competes come up. You see, these big companies start to do this with dealers. I've never been a fan of no competes and things like that. I want someone to work. But, man, when you put so much time in, I mean I had that happen with a dealer. You know somebody that I, you know, cared a lot about. You know, and they couldn't work on commission, so I paid them. And next thing, you know another company, company come along. It's like, hey, I'll snag, you know, snag them up and pay them twice as much, or whatever it is.

Shed Geek:

You want to be happy for your people and for your friends and all that stuff if you're not in a position to of course you know to pay that. So, you never want to stunt anybody's growth. But, man, like it sucks maybe I shouldn't use the word sucks on the podcast. It stinks, uh, whenever something like that happens, you know. But, um, that is the industry. It's like hey man, that guy's talented I want you know our gal's talented, I just want to.

Cord Coch:

It's the nature of the beast. Everybody knows everybody and I like the point that Wyatt made, which is like we're not just I mean this sounds so like you know you can say we're being cheesy or whatever else we're not just thankful for the clients that we have, like just our clients. We're thankful for the conversations, the discovery calls we've had with people that have never paid us a dollar right.

Cord Coch:

Because, like allowing us to come in Hours of content, yeah, allowing us to come in and have that conversation and get to know you and be vulnerable about where you are in your business and where you want to go and whether or not.

Cord Coch:

This is a fit right, like you know. I mean, I'm just again. I'm not going to start naming names or whatever else, but I can think of a half a dozen people in the last month who, you know, are just maybe not in the position where we wind up like we're talking about they're a dealer. Does it make sense for them to put this huge spend in, like? Whatever? It is right, but my goodness, did we have a great time getting to know them? Yeah?

Cord Coch:

and great company and getting to understand uh, you know what they've got going on. So, you know, that's a great point and I think all of us feel the same way um, we, just we love the people and love the conversations and great company.

Shed Geek:

I used to do this, so I'm gonna ask you guys this, because y'all know me really close, you know me really well, but I used to ask people I still do at the end of it any questions you have for me, since I'm technically interviewing you. Any question you have for me that I'll answer in full transparency doesn't have to be podcast related or anything. You're gonna embarrass me right now. Whatever you want to do, because y'all know me well enough any question that you would have and I'll answer it oh gosh, I want to.

Cord Coch:

Uh, I know we've talked about it, but you know I'm so nervous I'd like yeah I'd like to.

Cord Coch:

I'd like to pin you down on um, we've, I think it would be so great to I mean, we just talked about doing a discovery call here with someone live, that'd be great. I feel like we almost have to try, do our best to plan and I know it'd be hard a road trip style, you know, even if we just took three days, you know the three of us sitting here in Dillon and we go out and we try and hit two shed industry people it doesn't have to be dealers or manufacturers shed industry people and go do our little three or four day road trip where the boys are out in the world and going and doing this thing, live with people. I know you've done that plenty, but I just think we would have such a ball doing it. Yeah, um, you know. So that's not much of a question other than, like, just pressing you into, like, let's do this yeah, let's make it happen let's do it, dude, I'm pretty open.

Shed Geek:

I'm pretty open game for anything. What about you, white? Any question, any? Anything you want to know that you're like. What is he holding back on? I?

Wyatt Kirk:

don't know, Shannon. I I'm curious and I don't know that some of the questions I have could be answered on the podcast, but I always hear about you and Kord's the same way. I feel like I'm this way at times. I know Dylan's the same way, and that's also what makes all this fun, right, but like there's just so many ideas that float around, I'd be curious to know more about some of these big ideas, all of my personality tests come back as trailblazer, like look, I'm very heavy on vision and I'm very light on implementation.

Shed Geek:

I'm getting better at implementation, but that's why I've had the heartbreaks I've had with people are like I'll just hire the implementers, I like his ideas, but do they really? Sometimes the ideas get embraced only after they see that they'll work, and then it's just like so I'm just someone who sets and thinks and strategizes and the reality is I can't shut it off. I try to. I wish I could, but I love vision, I love creativity. The Bible says in the beginning God created. We're made in god's image, so we're made to be creative.

Shed Geek:

in my opinion, and I think that, like trying something even if it doesn't work is okay, oh yeah, but I why would I not try again on something different? Business people, I, I I told my good friend this just the other day. I wish I could tell you guys who it was. I told my good friend this the problem I run into with business people in most cases is you want to be so risk adverse that you want proof beyond proof, beyond proof, beyond proof, and then you'll consider it and then you may do it. And I think what's happened is people have learned through business adventures to be risk adverse. Because I've been burned and a bit and look, I have too, but there's nothing about me that wakes up in the morning and says, don't try that. You know? Uh, don't I mean, do I do?

Shed Geek:

I have faced my own personal dilemma every day in this industry being a public. Like did I try to be public? No, I tried to interview other people that I thought were you know. I was calling the term shed liberties, you know what I mean, like the Sam Byler's and stuff. I was like, oh, this guy's hilarious, he's awesome, let's interview him. I want to, you know, and you become this figma on accident and I've I'm very much more introverted. Me and my wife spend a lot of time at home. You guys saw that Everybody went out last night and I was like I'm going to stay home and watch the finals game. You know, I was like, come on out.

Cord Coch:

Which apparently turned into anyway. Dude, what a great game. What. I didn't see it. It's crazy, I didn't make it home in time.

Shed Geek:

So go Indiana. I was amazed to see that that shot. He's done it so many times. But I'm much more introverted than maybe you realize. I have my moments of like, massive, like times of being in front of people. Then I crash out and I just need to be alone. I just need to be and my I'm happiest with my wife. Yeah, like me.

Shed Geek:

And my wife just you know, some people say they can't work with their spouse. I can't work without mine. You know, she's the best. Um, another unsung hero. So, like you know, we just stay at home and we're very quiet. I like to work in the yard and I'm not. I'm really boring, honestly so, but this is, this has become my life and this is fun and, and I want to do this, I want to do it more. I maybe even want to do it in other industries. I've, I have found a purpose, you know, in communicating and doing that through podcasting, and God's given me that and I really want to use that for good. Um, but, but yeah, I ask your, feel free to ask your questions, on air or off air, no matter what they are, because I'm just trying to be real and get through the day and do it the best way I know how, with God's promises.

Cord Coch:

Yeah, cut down to it absolutely.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, you probably find all of us are very similar in that way. If you get to know us on a personal level, if you guys ever want to come to Paducah and just hang out with us, come to Metropolis and hang out with us, you're going to find the same thing, yeah.

Cord Coch:

I got a room at the house if you really want one.

Shed Geek:

Come on down and we'll hang out, but thank you guys for being on today, being part of the process. Part of my success is because of you and I owe you untold debt for that, always so thank you Same in reverse. We appreciate you, Shannon.

Cord Coch:

Thank you, sir.

OUTRO:

Thanks again, ShedPro, for being the Shed Geek's studio sponsor for 2025. If you need any more information about ShedPro or about Shed Geek, just reach out. You can reach us by email at info@ ShedGeek. com, or just go to our website, www. shedgeek. com and submit a form with your information and we'll be in contact right away. Thank you again for listening, as always, to today's episode of the Shed Geek podcast. Thank you and have a blessed day.