Shed Geek Podcast
The Shed Geek Podcast offers an in depth analysis of the ever growing and robust Shed Industry. Listeners will experience a variety of guests who identify or specialize in particular niche areas of the Shed Industry. You will be engaged as you hear amateur and professional personalities discuss topics such as: Shed hauling, sales, marketing, Rent to Own, shed history, shed faith, and much more. Host Shannon Latham is a self proclaimed "Shed Geek" who attempts to take you through discussions that are as exciting as the industry itself. Listeners of this podcast include those who play a role directly or indirectly with the Shed Industry itself.
Shed Geek Podcast
Calculated Success: Why Your Shed Company Needs Financial Clarity
Behind every successful shed business lies more than just quality craftsmanship—there's a foundation of strategic leadership, financial clarity, and intentional growth planning. In this revealing conversation with Curt Paquette of Calculate Business Services, we unpack the essential business elements that many shed companies overlook until problems arise.
Curt brings decades of experience helping small and mid-sized businesses navigate challenges like leadership structure, financial management, and growth planning. What makes this discussion particularly valuable is how he translates complex business concepts into practical applications specifically for shed businesses, whether family-owned operations or growing companies.
The concept of "fractional C-level support" stands out as a game-changer for shed businesses that need executive expertise without the full-time expense. This approach provides access to CFO, COO, or HR leadership on a part-time basis, allowing companies to benefit from strategic guidance while maintaining financial flexibility. Curt explains how this model helps identify blind spots that owners often miss when they're focused on day-to-day operations.
We delve into the critical importance of formal documentation—from mission statements to employee handbooks—that create clarity and reduce conflict, especially in family businesses. Curt shares real examples of how establishing clear roles between visionaries (idea generators) and implementers (those who execute) prevents the common tensions that can derail otherwise successful companies.
Perhaps most valuable is our honest discussion about financial management. Many shed business owners excel at building and selling but lack confidence in financial matters. Curt compassionately addresses this reality, emphasizing that seeking help isn't a weakness but a strategic strength. His practical guidance on understanding key financial statements and using them to make informed decisions provides immediate takeaways for listeners.
Whether you're running a small shed operation, managing a dealer network, or manufacturing building components, this conversation offers valuable insights to strengthen your business foundation and prepare for sustainable growth.
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This episodes Sponsors:
Studio Sponsor: Shed Pro
Ok welcome back to another episode of the Shed Geek Podcast and um there again we need a bell ringing you know for round three were duking it out Curt Round number three ding ding ding and so excited to have you back on the podcast. A wealth of information, very knowledgeable, very intelligent and very welcome business to this industry and so needed. So, we have introductions, but I'll tell you what. Just for those who don't know who you are, what you do, tell us a little bit about yourself and your needed. So, we have introductions, but I'll tell you what. Just for those who don't know who you are, what you do, tell us a little bit about yourself and your company.
Curt:Sure, Curt Paquette with Calculate Business Services.
Curt:My brother and I, Clark, have been running this company for a number of years now and have been in the shed industry for quite a few years, have loved it, enjoyed it and really we were a support services for small to mid-sized companies, helping them out anywhere from accounting, bookkeeping, tax support. We've done quite a bit of C-level support for them, helping companies with our organization, really helping them think about stuff that they don't have time to think about. I think that's the key piece that we love to be able to do with our organization really helping them think about stuff that they don't have time to think about. I think that's the key piece that we love to be able to do with our clients and enjoying it. I wake up every morning, can't wait to see what's on my plate for the day and finish up the day with my wife telling me it's time to close out the day. But it's a great thing and my brother and I love working together and love helping people thing and my brother and I love working together and love helping people.
Shannon:But you know you already hit on something that's very relevant to my day, my week, my conversation and even something we discussed pre-interview this morning, which is, you know, we bought this office space so that we could try to balance our life a little bit. I'm a workaholic if I'm not careful and when I was working out of my office at home, you know, I didn't know when work was work and home was home, and my wife has done the same to tell me like let's shut it down at this time, try to go home. I still answer phone calls, get on social media, answer emails and things off my phone at home calls, get on social media, answer emails and things off my phone at home.
Curt:But usually it turns into.
Shannon:Can we talk tomorrow, right, as opposed to let's get on a call right now, and seven, eight, nine o'clock I'm always on a video chat, call, podcast, something. You know how does that? How does that work for you? What is work-life balance? Is that a real thing? Does that happen? Work-life balance.
Curt:Certainly, when you're on your own business, which you are very aware of, it has to be a very front of mind type of activity and because we do that and we're somewhat family oriented like you are, if you don't do that, you are going to lose the time with your family and you, as the family leader, the family member, you're being the example. So, if you don't do it, you're not letting your family do it, and we really try to encourage our clients in that same way. So, what we practice, we do, I try very, very rarely to call or text anyone after hours because I want to respect their time. I try to do everything that we can do with the clients within those times because those things are important Having the physical aspect of your life with family and exercise, whatever that may be, which sometimes is a very challenging thing for us to do, but even on the spiritual side, right. So, understanding the weekends Sunday is an important day for most people and don't do anything on Sunday.
Curt:I have people sometimes say, hey, I'll finish that up on Sunday. I said, no, you're not, Not for me, you're not. So, I really try to make sure that that happens and we try to do the same thing with our clients and encourage that same behavior. So, we do try to practice what we preach. But I did work a little late. Last night, for example, my wife did come in and say are you done yet? So those things are a work in progress, but the same moment I really work hard on that piece because I want to set the example, not only for my family but for my clients and my employees as well.
Shannon:It's affected us very much. With the addition of family, Of course, our granddaughter came along and surprised us. You know, it seems as though the kids came back from the wedding honeymoon pregnant. So, you know, it didn't take long before we became grandparents as the marriage oh, that's an exciting thing.
Shannon:It's so fun. She's here today. She's awesome, and they surprised us this Easter with the fact that she's going to be a big sister. So, we're going to have two grandbabies under two and that has slowed down our road time and I admit that to the listeners if you haven't seen me as much on the road. That's why we've been trying to focus on family, doing a little bit more video casting and things like that, which has worked out really good.
Shannon:But we will mix some of our travels in. We're excited to see some people and you know that's tough because as you're, as you're on the road, that's sort of your, you know. Oh, I don't know what the right term is to use, but you know and sales, a lot of times there's the people who find the business, but then there's the people who tend to the business. You know, and I'm, I'm, I'm heavy on vision, I'm heavy on how these ideas there's this you can do, there's that you can do, there's all this right, I need sometimes those implementers to come in and rein in, settle me a little bit. You know, what is your, what is your thoughts on that? In the industry, are you seeing much of that? Do you align with that, do you agree? I?
Curt:agree completely. And a lot of times, if clients aren't aware of those things, that's where it becomes the challenge. And so, as I kind of analyze an organization I look at, you know a number of different things. Do they have a nice, clear, concise mission statement? Do they have a clear and concise vision statement? Do they have the core values settled in their mind? Do they know what their culture needs to be? And are they then, from knowing those things, are they hiring the people that fit the mission? Are they hiring the people that fit the mission, vision and culture and core values?
Curt:And then you know, even looking at companies, you're trying to identify who is that you mentioned? Who's that visionary right? Who's that person who has 20 ideas every week? One is probably good and attainable, the other are not right, but that's really what it looks like. And then you've got the person who says all right, I'm going to take your ideas, I'm going to run with those things. And we see that in a lot of the smaller companies, even to some of the mid-sized companies, those people haven't been identified. And especially in family businesses, if those things haven't been identified, guess what you're going to have? You're going to have conflict If those things haven't been identified. Guess what you're going to have? You're going to have conflict.
Curt:So, it's important that, as a leadership team, you sit down and you identify what is you know there's that phrase out there what are people's unique abilities? And if their unique ability is to be that visionary because they're just creative, they love to think about ideas what's the next shiny, you know shiny tool, or shiny penny, whatever that may be? Then there's the people who say you know what? I got it, let me take that and let me operationalize it, let me put it into something that works so that we can run this as a fine oiled machine. And so, making sure you've got that group of people, because one person can't handle both those pieces. It's just not going to work. So, if you have just think about it If you have operations, you have finance and you have sales and marketing, if you're missing any one of those pieces, your company will have challenges. So, making sure you've got a person, each of those seats, who has a unique ability to be successful in those seats. Those are the key pieces and then that supports this visionary that's out there.
Curt:And so we just, you know, those are some of the things we like to talk with our clients about, not to overwhelm them, but to say, hey, let's try to think about your organization, how we can improve that organization. So those are the things we think about a lot try to help our clients out with.
Shannon:One of my favorite, you know quotes and I'm paraphrasing so it's not actually a true quote but you know is the one of the greatest deficiencies of all of humanity is consistency, right and like. If we consistently worked out, we would. We would have weight loss and muscles right, muscle health and flexibility If we consistently ate right, you know, if we consistently read our Bible we consistently read, you know, literature to you know, be more educated. So, so, like, that's the thing that's the hardest thing for us to oftentimes accomplish anyway, thing that's the hardest thing for us to oftentimes accomplish anyway. And you're spread a lot of times as a manager, project manager, owner. You're like chief, everything. I'm chief sales guy, chief marketing guy, I'm chief builder, chief hauler, chief trash taker, outer, whatever it is. You do whatever is on there and what happens is it's like you get out of alignment with one direction. You don't realize it as it happens, but you get out of alignment and you begin to focus too much attention on one and you don't have anything to pull you back.
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Shannon:You know, like yourselves, like the business, you guys offer mission, vision, core values, culture. You know we, yourselves, like the business, you guys offer Mission, vision, core values, culture. You know we're five years in and I don't think we've identified these things in writing. Like education through entertainment has always been the tagline, you know our core values and our culture surrounds ourselves with trust. Like we refuse to take a benefit of money or something else, to sacrifice that for the long term because that'll come back to bite you right. So, it's not a long- term goal to take something quick now. We're no benefit later We've got to focus on trust. So, we've made that. But I need to sit down and I need to establish what is our mission, what is our vision, what are we hoping to accomplish? But if you point a gun at something and don't know what you're aiming at, what could you possibly hit?
Curt:And I think that's important. It is a very challenging task, it's time consuming, it takes people away from their comfort zone because they're having to confront these issues and nobody really likes to do it. But it's a necessary thing because once you develop those things, that's part of your onboarding process. When you bring new people on board, you share those things because you know what that does. That helps eliminate or get people excited about wanting to work for you.
Curt:I was with a client and it was a potential I think it was a project manager or some project lead supervisor came into the office and a competing company was closing their doors. Came into us the client and said hey, this would be an opportunity for me to be able to work for you. He looked around and saw all the mission, vision and the biblical things that this company was really trying to be and said within five minutes I don't think this is a company that I really want to work for. So, guess what? Within five, 10 minutes, we realized that wasn't the right person. Could have been the right seat, but not the right person, because culture is very important, that you want to not lose and you want to grow.
Curt:So all of those things take time and effort. But if you don't write those down and you don't share those things, then guess what? You may not be able to articulate nor even eliminate I don't mean that from a really strong term, but eliminate those people who will not fit in those things. So, you've got this inbuilt kind of filter that occurs before a person even walks in the door, because all those things are known, the people know it, they're present and they're all there and we just find that that has been a huge help for companies. It doesn't matter what size you are, it helped for all companies.
Shannon:We have a unique like, we have a unique world in Sheds right, because we have oh gosh, we have, you know, family run businesses, small operations, moms and pops, very large organizations that are very established. We talk to a lot of these companies in a variety of different directions you know what I'm saying Based off of their, their, their mission and their vision and where they're going. Culture plays a big role into that because, you know, I take a lot of pride in that, the idea that we consider ourselves to be a faith-based industry in many ways, you know, because there's just so many good people in this industry Love it, that we get to talk, you know, and like be unashamed, you know, like proud of, like our faith, you know, like we just get to unlike what feels sometimes, like socially, we have to, you know, to keep this in the box over here. We get to share and we share openly and we've made that a staple here at the podcast to say I'd rather it go away than to deny, like God and all these things.
Shannon:But what happens is, with a lot of these businesses, oh, I got to be careful here. I want to make sure that I'm saying the right thing or not saying it in a way to offend. There's a lot of family run businesses and with that comes this little word that creeps in that no one really ever talks about, and that's nepotism, you know and we've seen this, you know where you know, second, third generation or whatever comes up and then there's conflict, even, maybe even between the culture, the generations. Man, how do you, from you guys' perspective and the business services that you offer, give me some advice on that, because we've even experienced some of that that we've had to be like, okay, let me think through this, but how do you approach it? How do you approach this small family-owned entity, if you will?
Curt:There's the expression eggshells. Right, I mean it can be that way, but I always think about it. If you set the record straight early on, you don't have to address it when it gets too far down the path. My goal has always been if you can't work together, family is more important than work.
Curt:It's just like you know you've got God, family and work right, and so if the work of working together affects your family and your relationship with God, then you probably need to think about how you can separate yourself or the person who may be your family member in order to preserve family and God. I think that's a hard thing to do, but I do think it's all about setting things up front, being completely honest and transparent. I've had to do that on a number of occasions. You know, when I think of a succession plan, I prefer my succession plan to be my family. But guess what? If they're not interested, then I'm not going to force a succession plan with my family if they're not part of it. We do have clients, too, where the father started the business and the kids have taken over and the parent or even maybe let's add parents to it they have taken a lesser role, but that was established up front and you know that there is an exit plan. When I talk about succession plan, I'm including an exit plan too. So those who are running it, as far as the parents bringing the children in on it, need to understand at some moment they need to exit. What does that look like? What is that timing. Try to hold on to that and also maintain the culture being flexible.
Curt:You got to listen. It's interesting at my age and I won't tell you the age nor the generation I'll let you guess on that from my voice but I do think you know listening to your children, who grew up with the customers that you're going after now, is very important as well. So don't forget that sales and marketing opportunity that you have with the younger generation. It doesn't mean that you always agree with them or think that it's going in the right direction, but understanding that's what you have to work with. It's the same thing with just evangelizing right.
Curt:Evangelism has changed over the years. Why? Because now you've got these people, all they care about is getting an answer in five seconds, and so how do you deal with that, even from an evangelistic standpoint? So, it's okay to make changes, as long as God and the Bible does not get compromised. It's okay on those things. So, I'm kind of equating a bit of things and maybe even expanding more than necessary, but those are some of the things that to me, I see and I've done personally from my own perspective with my family- I wrote this down as you were speaking because I felt like it just needs to be said.
Shannon:If you sold to people who buy like you, you'll only attract customers like yourself, and we fall into this trap of people are going to buy based off of similar buying habits to the way I shop. So therefore, you're only going to attract buyers like yourself, and the reality is you don't sell to just buyers like. You sell to everyone, and so you've got to meet the customer where they are, as you said. You know, are we going against the will or the word of God? That's something you always have to consider, but once you've put that to bed, it's really just a matter of learning and figuring out that. You know, do I want to do this myself? Do I want someone to do this? How do I approach this? Who do I trust? Right, like to do this.
Shannon:I've seen so many and I'll just be a little vulnerable here. I've seen so many companies being taken advantage of and not to just do this as a plug. But you know, website's a perfect example. You know, if we've been talking marketing and we find out, you know they're being charged 1200 bucks a month or something to host their site annually and I'm like oh, no way are you paying $1,200 a month, have you? That's a five to $800 charge in most places, maybe even three to 500, depending on who you're working with. You know, for the whole year. You know, and they're paying $1,200 a month, and it's not as though they're getting the added SEO benefits or features or things like that. This is just because they simply didn't know, and you know that hurts me to see that, because just the fact that people would take advantage from someone who doesn't know, right, right, when will that ever be a plan for success, Curt? Has it ever happened, right?
Curt:The only place where that's at most likely. I mean from the center of the world. But, and for us too, that's what we want to do. We want to partner with people so that we can we're greater together than we are separate, right, so if we can work our minds together to help each other out, it's a great thing. As a Christian community, as people who want to honor God, I mean, those things are beneficial for us to share with others.
Curt:I'm the same as you From a consulting standpoint. I could charge you know I'll use the French word beaucoup money to do it and people will take it. But that's not the industry we're looking at. That's not the people we're targeting. We want to help those people to get them to grow too. At the same moment, it's you know what we do, even for you, and the experience we have is not free. But at the same moment, we're going to sit there and help folks out from a reasonable standpoint, with the experience that we have, because our goal at the end is to see the success with all of our clients. If all of our clients do a great job and we're not needed anymore, that's a success story. That's a success story, and so that's why I take a look at them
Advertisement:, oh no. Sam, what's going on? Are you okay?
Advertisement:Yes, I'm fine, Lisa. I was just trying to get a screwdriver and all this other stuff fell down. I'm ready to go buy a shed so we can have some space in this garage again.
Advertisement:I agree, I keep looking at the shed Mr Jenkins bought. Let's ask him where I got his.
Advertisement:Howdy neighbor, we're wondering how do you like your shed?
Advertisement:I love it. It's exactly what I needed, and I couldn't have asked for a better service. And where did you get it? Hmm, I can't remember, but let me check Something. This nice will probably have the builder's name on it somewhere. Hmm, no, I'm sorry, I can't find a name anywhere. Well, we finally got a shed.
Advertisement:Yes, I just hope we're happy. The thing is a lot more shoddy than I expected, and I'm sure I told them I wanted a window, but they didn't have it in the paperwork so I couldn't argue. Boy is this a lousy shed. We haven't even had it two years, have we?
Advertisement:Barely. It was just a bad deal all the way around. Mr Jenkins told me the other day that he likes his shed so much he wants to get a second one, but he still can't remember where he got it.
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Shannon:Yeah, no, I'm reading a book this morning. I really like it's talking about, uh, collaborative efforts, which has been the buzzword of the shed industry for a couple years now. And uh talked about how competition's healthy and collaboration's healthy and how do you end the two. And he called it uh, he called it coopetition or something along those lines. I might be misquoting it, but I was like you just created a new word. I like you know let's, how do we value competition, how do we value collaboration? How do we work?
Shannon:It's been kind of the staple of our podcast to sort of walk this tight rope of being like hey, you know you compete with someone, invite them on welcome, difficult conversation, meaningful conversation that ultimately helps people. You know advertising. You know it's like yeah, come on advertise with you. You know we can't handle all business you can't, no one can but let's work together to do something good. Some it's welcome, for some it's not. When I first met you, you know one of the things that you were doing and I like this term, but I need you to break it down for me a little bit to understand it more uh, most companies hire a project manager. You know a. Uh, a CEO, you know, chief, whatever you want to call it, you know, uh, but you used to use the term and I assume you still do fractional cco, fractional c, level c. Right that down for me and give me, like the knowledge, to understand what what that means in depth you know, certainly from the basics.
Curt:Fractional means, in the simple terms, part-time, um. C level means you're getting a person who has strategic value in the organization, who's just not going to be a doer but going to be a thinker as well. I think those are some of the things A lot of companies have an understanding. Okay, how do I get to the next level from a financial perspective? And what that is, if I want to grow some, I'm going to probably have to get a line of credit or borrow money from somewhere, and what does that look like? And then, how do I not grow too fast? So that's kind of that CFO level. You got a CEO level that you know will help out with strategy and over mission, vision, culture and core values. And how do you keep the organization together and creating a three to five year plan.
Curt:You know a number of things like that, and I see, too, why I love this concept of offering fractional C-level support is there's a few areas that I believe that companies have struggles with, and that is in a lot of the small to mid-sized companies. That's kind of the human resources or the people factor of these things. You know, do you have a handbook? Do you have job descriptions for everyone? Do you have an employee agreement? Do you have policies and procedures in place for the simple fact of a credit card, you know, do people know how to use a credit card? And if they don't use it properly, that could be terms for immediate dismissal. All of those things in place and those are opportunities, with employee handbooks, to be able to provide everyone right up front with what your mission, vision, core values, culture, all that is and those are great tools. All that is and those are great tools.
Curt:So that's, I think, a really big missing piece that I see in a lot of the small to mid-sized companies. They don't think about it because family. But at some moment you're going to have to hire out of your family because you may be growing at a rate that you can't, and so how do you help protect your culture with all the different areas, even performance reviews? You know, when someone doesn't know they're doing a bad job and all of a sudden you blow up at them and not that we ever do that, right, but you blow up at someone and they're like I never knew that you were upsetting me or this was happening. So, if you formalize a lot of things which not a lot of people like to do, but it's worth its weight in gold in order to formalize a lot of things out there. And then you don't have to first of all repeat it, you don't have to remember it. Why? Because it's there.
Curt:So, all those things I believe are benefits that can come from a fractional C-level person. Come in and helping out, and we found great success with our clients, and even clients to the point of well, if it gets to where we grow here, can we hire you full-time. So those are obviously the challenges that happen with working with companies that provide C or fractional C-level support is that you may want them and they may say I'll help you find that person to replace me, and that also is a piece to help. What's your succession plan, what's your growth plan? And I think those people with the experiences and using us, the experience we have, can really help you get there.
Shannon:Makes. No, makes perfect sense. I wrote so many things down when you were, you know, going through this. You know job descriptions, you know hiring outside of family, you know. And then I wrote down formalize and communication, because communication is, you know, ultimately the goal here. It's not just communication, you know, I'm learning, it's comprehension. I can communicate, which is so like advertising. You're communicating, you're bringing awareness, but comprehension is top of mind, awareness, isn't it? It's actually keeping somebody locked in, right, it's letting them understand what you do, believing in what you do, supporting what you do, and I like that.
Shannon:You said formalize it because it gives you well, I mean just the same as we do in our faith. Right, we need a, we need a, something to balance it against something, to balance truth against something, to balance our bearing against an anchor, if you will. You know, and that's what it really takes with you know, you're running a business. But hey, this is what's this? The country song say I'm still learning to be human. It's the first time. Me and Jeff Huxman talk about this all the time. I'm just now being human for the first time. I'm just now learning for the first time. So, like I'm going to need some grace and some mistakes, but what formalization does is allows you to go back to a place of truth. A source of this is what we agreed upon. This is what we talked about. I understand things have changed over time and things like that. How do you approach that? How do you approach growth? How do you approach starting out with an idea and then it turns into this much bigger idea?
Curt:First, it's important to make sure you never lose sight of where you came from. I think that's an important piece. What are you grounded and what you're rooting in and knowing too, as you grow, that's going to potentially impact your culture understanding what growth could do and just making sure that you're listing the negotiables from the non-negotiables. I think those are certainly key pieces to go through that as you grow. And I'll just use our name of our company to help thought processes. But we always talk about having calculated growth, calculated growth. You got to think through that process. What are you willing to do? You know how much is too, much is very and all parties need to do. You talked about communication Communicate. Do you agree upon what that plan looks like? As a leadership team, do you agree upon the steps to get there?
Curt:It's a lot of work to do that and obviously a part of that is the financial aspect of it. How do you want to get there? Do you want to do it from your own investment? Do you want to bring outside investors? Do you want to do a line of credit? Do you want to use banks? There's just a number of ways to look at it and how do you navigate it. There's other simple ways, just like getting vendors to extend credit or giving you more limits. I mean, there's a number of ways you look at it, but you have to really sit down and think through that piece because your eyes can get a whole lot bigger than what reality needs to be for you. I've had a boss many, many moons ago used to say don't write checks, your body can't cash. And so if it affects all of those things as far as church, family and then work obviously, then you've got to be very understanding of what the implications are of the decisions that you're making. So, it's sitting down, communicating, making sure you have a good plan, making sure you got the finance aspect of it in place, make sure you got the marketing in place.
Curt:As you say, the three-legged stool if you don't have the right sales and marketing, you got the right finances, you're still not going to go. You got a lot of operations, people just sitting around twiddling their thumbs right. But if you got a good sales group and you got good financing but you don't have a good operations plan, guess what? Your customers are going to hate you because your customer service is no good. If you got a great sales group and operations, but you don't have the financing in places, you're going to fail as well. So, making sure you've got the three-legged stool figured out to ensure that you've got a balanced group of people. Do you have the right people in place? Do you have to invest in people? It's not always about products and materials. You have the right people in the right seats for that process too.
Curt:So, there's a lot that needs to be thought about. It's not, it's not for the faint of heart, but with a good plan in place and some good counsel and I think that's key too is never forget the count. You know, as the bible talks about, respect the gray-haired person right, which, in essence, is reflecting the, the people who have been through it before. There's something that I was taught early on too there's two types of nets you have. You have a fishing net, which that's the people you walk arms with and you work with day to day, and then you have your safety net, those small group of people that you talk to to say man, I'm making a very big decision. I need someone who I can trust to talk through this, to tell and that person's gonna be honest to let me know man, you're making a big mistake, or boy. That sounds really good, but here's a couple of things I would think about to do it. So having that network of people and trusted advisors is a term I love to use. I think is so important.
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Shannon:You know I like your gray hair statement there. I never got an opportunity to make it to that gray-haired position, unless it's showing up in my beard. But as I heard the other day and you probably heard it in the listeners as well God only made so many perfect heads and the rest he put hair on right.
Curt:That's what I've's on other places, right, right that's the way.
Shannon:That's just the way it goes. All those bald people got to stick together. Uh, I love having a sounding board, you know. Uh, I have a sounding board of people to, to, to just contact and some that contact me, and we just talk at a very matter of fact level of kind of like what we're seeing or what's happening, or you know how things are moving and like the cool thing is like that effort, just like the word, never returns void. Whenever you put that effort in, that effort always has some sort of residual effect educating yourself, learning more, reading more, trying to understand the industry better, communicate with people, collaborate with people. And it's biblical. It's a biblical principle because iron sharpens iron, you know, yeah.
Curt:And I think the other one too, is that the Bible talks about you know, if the king goes out to war, does he count the cost before he goes into battle? Yeah, and he got to be aware of those things because it may not be worth it and all of a sudden, at the end, you could hurt your family, you could hurt your church. I mean, there's a lot of things that you could hurt if you have not conserved the cost of decisions you're making.
Shannon:Well and, and you know, a lot of times people don't think of business at this level. Curt, you know I mean this is something you've been doing, you and Clark have been doing for a long time. I mean you're already working with people in the shed industry. You're established and working with people and looking to grow right. So, like this is not guesswork. This is not like you know. I hope you know I stumble upon something that that works.
Shannon:But what some of the people who need these services, you know, may not realize is a lot of times they're, you know, they're good at building sheds and that's what they want to do and that's what they've always wanted to do. But man, does it change quickly when you start to look at a business as a whole? One of my early podcasts I certainly remember talking about, I certainly remember talking about. You know you can do anything you want, but sometimes it might be hard to do those things. Well, if you stay vertically integrated, some people are perfectly capable of being able to hire, salesforce also hire and do their internal marketing, also be vertically integrated with their delivery system and not have to use a third party, but then maybe they also can do their own, rent out, you know, whatever it is. But arguably each one of those could be a business in their own and they are, because we know haulers who make a living hauling sheds they don't do these other things and sales people who make a living just selling sheds. So you've got to almost identify who you are where. When do I need to use an agency, you know, and when can I, you know, capitalize on this vertical? And is there a common goal that says vertical integration is always the direction we're attempting to seek? You know, I we have.
Shannon:I sat and had a conversation with politics last night with my buddy, cord, who works with us, and we were talking politics and I said is the middle exactly what everyone's going for? Cause? It seems to be. When we get to a conversation, it seems to be the middle is always like this source of truth that we got to come back to. You know like, well, you know this person's got to be wrong and this person's got to be right and both of you have to fit that mold at different times. And I guess what I'm trying to say.
Shannon:My overarching thought is here Sometimes, maybe, understanding the business aspects of your business isn't for you, it isn't in the caliber of what excites you. So therefore, it's going to always get pushed to the side. And then when you come back and say well, I don't know my numbers, did we make money? Well, it seemed like it. We sold a lot of sheds this year. But you should know. You should know, in order to attain growth and your role as a CEO is different than you know it maybe needs to grow into a place where you're not out doing repairs. That's a good example, because you need to be running your business. I hope I'm not stepping on anybody's toes here.
Curt:You know Right I do think that's a great point is you've got to recognize where you are and who you are is. You've got to recognize where you are and who you are, and it's not also about making all the money or the growth. It is, as I continue to say you've got to have the cash flow in order to be able to grow. Sometimes people look at their bank account and says, oh, I got money in the bank, so I must be doing okay, and right around the corner is a catastrophe which you're not seeing because you're not looking closely at your books, which is an important thing. The other aspect and it's not for everyone and certainly even our listening audience in working with banks and borrowing money but those things do have an impact You've got to make sure your profit and loss statement is reflecting a thing that, if you want to borrow money, the banks or investors are going to think positive about. If your balance sheet is not in order, not having the right ratios or working capital or a number of different things that I'd love to talk about but the audience would probably fall asleep on. But if those things aren't put in place, if your statement of cash flows is not reflecting a positive thing. You're going to have a challenge borrowing money from people, whether it's an investor or even a family member or a bank. Those things are going to be challenging. So, making sure that you're reviewing those things and yes, I got you know.
Curt:People will say I've got to draw up business in order for us to get there. Well, there are some foundational things that need to be done and really, from a financial aspect, and being disciplined and responsible for that should never go away and should never be an afterthought. And we do see that my books are. I can't tell you how many clients that we've done their books and their books are a year behind and they come can you fix our books? They realize it and it's almost like it's never too late. We can always go back and fix them. But the same moment they've realized, oh boy, somebody's asking for something that I don't have, so I need help. Identifying those things, I think, really are a huge benefit for companies.
Shannon:You know, sometimes we learn the lesson after the cost, don't we? You know, that's just the reality. There's no way to know what you don't know, you know, and it's the experience that often takes you through it. And here's the cool thing is like you guys have seen it enough that you can help avoid that negative experience. That's what you're hiring for. You're hiring a professional for that exact purpose, so that you don't have to pay that costly lesson.
Curt:And I think, too, is that let's just be honest too. Having someone look at your as a visionary finances is not something that you love to sit there every day. I can't wait to end my day putting all stuff into QuickBooks. That's not who you are and what you are, and sometimes people feel like that. That's an inefficiency for themselves and they don't like to reveal that to people, and they don't like to reveal that to people and they don't like to share that.
Curt:Things are a bit messed up, and we try to tell our clients we're not here to judge, we're here to help, because we know who you are as a person, we know what as I used earlier that unique ability that you have and that is not the books. So, we come in here to help you, not to critique you, not to criticize you, not to judge you, but to know that you're trying to run a business and that's not what you love to do, nor your core competency. So, let's come in and be that partner for you and help you so that you feel comfortable and you can feel relieved. Hey, I got someone who knows what to do and takes care of the books, and I can do what I love to do best and guess what we're going to? We're going to be successful.
Curt:That's where we want to get our clients and even the industry, whether it's us or not, but that's the passion that we kind of have with this industry and we see with small to mid-sized companies. So that's what, as you can see probably from my voice, that's what that's we're passionate about. That keeps us up, and it's maybe not just the books, but just helping those companies grow and get to where they want to be. And then even, as the Bible says, you know, having an inheritance for our children, our families. Those are things that we think about as well, and so when we're talking to clients, those are part of the things we want our clients to think about as well.
Shannon:You know again and forgive me, audience, if it sounds like a constant plug I pull on my own experiences to shape my thoughts. So, you know, I couldn't agree with you more. One of the lessons and I've said this on here many times that we learned to use marketing as a perfect example. You know, it was like we. We learned that people just didn't have that knowledge and it was like you know, so many times before they had been, I think so many people had felt because I don't understand that. Are they going to look down on me for not having this knowledge of this in-depth? What is the difference in? You know what I'm saying, like local seo and or you know, or what is I? You know, I don't know. I'm trying to think of just different things. You know what I mean, from tag managers to automation funnels, like all these different things. Well, they don't live in that world. They just don't live in that world every day and it's okay. That's okay and that's what we have to get them to realize. It's okay.
Shannon:We became consultative and we were like tell me what you do, know, you know, and then we won't. You know, there'll be no exchange of money, you know, until you're educated on what to purchase. The reality is you don't. There's things you don't always need to purchase and there's things that you don't need to purchase until this time or whatever. But for people who are looking to make a buck or a quick buck, it's just kind of like you know it's easier to sell because you dumb the process down to where it's kind of like, oh this, and then you make all these promises and it's like that has never been a recipe for success long term. So it's like we want your business to thrive, so we started using the tagline. When you talk about mission, vision, core values and culture from a mission statement or a vision statement, one of our favorite things to say is hey, we're supposed to make you money, not cost you money. I need you to understand that, that this isn't just another item on your balance sheet at the end of the day that says, well, we had to pay for that. It's like, no, we should be making you money, just the same as anything you invest in. You invest in a two by four to build a shed, to sell it, to make money, it's all the same. And we just tell them if we're not making you money, we'll shake your hand and walk away Right. So like that's. You know you got to build that confidence in them to be like you know we we've had to be educational. That doesn't mean we know it all, you know, I bet. I bet Curt and Clark would say you know there's areas of growth that we still learn. Sure, you know something and you know it from your experience and you can prove case studies to show where this worked you know.
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Curt:So yeah I love it and I think too, Shannon I, I think the other thing I think about that we try to bring our clients to. Why? Because I've seen it all throughout my business career, and that is you surround yourself with smart people. If you surround yourself with smart people, you're by their. That association makes you smart, and I don't mean it's anything for self-gratification, but that's a smart business plan to have.
Curt:So, we've tried to in our building of our company is also bring other people to the table. So, for example, we have a banker we love to introduce to people when they need lines of credit or investment or whatever. We've got an insurance broker. These are Christian folks that we try to also bring on board because they're trying to do the right thing. We have an insurance person we do, so even some of the clients that we work with we can introduce them to other clients because they can potentially work together and even get additional clients. So those are some of the things we love to bring to our clients. It's not just us, but it's other people.
Curt:We have not had one partner where we've created this well, if you give me something, I'll give you some money or we'll do something. No, I mean it's the same thing with software. We've developed a lot of friendships with software. Software is stuff for us. It's just software for our industry, for the shed industry, the relationship, so that we first of all know how to use it. Not know everything, but know enough to be able to guide our clients on what's the right decision-making process. To be able to get there and part of it is not just going out and looking at the software or whatever it's understanding. What is your business process? If you don't understand your business process, you could make a wrong decision on the software. Why? Because it's got some beautiful bells and whistles. It looks terrific, but behind the scene you got a duck that's floating on the water, but underneath the feet are just paddling like crazy. Right?
Curt:And so making sure that we're helping companies navigate through that, because we've been through it. We've made those same decisions. We've helped clients make those decisions. We don't want them to make a bad decision. We want them to make an educated, good decision. We'll lay out the facts. At the end of the day, it's their decision. Educated good decision We'll lay out the facts. At the end of the day, it's their decision. But we would not be helpful and consultative and be a partner if we weren't sharing the good, bad and ugly about the things that they're looking at versus what they're trying to do as a company in their business processes.
Shannon:A person that loves you will tell the truth, even when the truth is difficult. That's the reality. A person who loves you will tell you the truth, even though the truth is difficult. There's no more love shown in the um, uh-oh, my internet was cutting in and out there for a minute, so, uh, but there's. There's nothing more difficult than, you know, being told a lie to feel better, you know, doesn't solve the root of the problem and I appreciate that that you guys do that, you know.
Shannon:You spoke on surrounding yourself with people smarter than you. I cannot give enough credit to people that we have partnered with. I simply cannot. I will be forever indebted because I've truly done what some people's successes are considered as the key to success. I will be forever indebted because I've truly done what some people's success is, uh, consider is the key to success, which is surrounding myself with people smarter and more talented than me. Uh, and being able to, you know, uh, promote them. And as the old, you know, zig Ziglar quote says you know, help others get what you want or what they want, so you can get what you want is really the story of my success's like whenever people talk to me, you know, and say you know how did this work? I'm like help people, serve, serve first, always serve.
Shannon:We put a podcast out to help people you know what I mean and to have conversations. Because all those conversations even this morning a conversation happened what do you see in the industry? I'm hearing it's, it's April. What are we? April 25th? I'm. I'm hearing April slowed down a little bit. I'm hearing, uh, you know, these people say this is that well, what are you hearing? You know people want to soundboard, to check different things off of. There's something we're missing. Going back to your earlier point, is there something we're not seeing? That's obvious. Um, I think of the book.
Shannon:Uh, I can't think of his name right now Chris Voss talking about negotiation. I can't think of the name of the book right now, but he's got a group called the Black Swan Group. He has a group called the Black Swan Group and what I always liked about that in reading the book Never Split the Difference. That was the name of it. Never Split the Difference, he said.
Shannon:The Black Swan Group is why he named his company, because what they were attempting to do through their consultative practices was, when you look out into a pond of white swans. What's the most obvious thing that sticks out if there's one black swan and that's what they're attempting to do is find the black swan in your business. Right, and be like. This is the obvious thing. Everyone sees, we see it, they see it. You don't see it because you're the black swan looking out and you just see a bunch of white swans.
Shannon:So, you assume you know you fit in like everyone else. But it could be your communication, it could be your message. I try to explain that in advertising, constantly on the podcast, I'm like we get in front of the same people every time. You know we got the same thousand listeners constantly. If they're not understanding your message, change your message. If they're not, you know what I mean. Like you got to keep doing what you can do to get in front of the people and that's very like interpretive if you're a manufacturer who's advertising your product to the public, because at the end of the day, we're trying to sell a shed, are we not? I guess we're all here doing, we're talking about all these different things at the end of the day, we're trying to sell a shed and I'm like are people hearing your message? Do they believe in you? Know they'll buy from you if they do.
Curt:Solomon said it. Well, right, there's nothing new under the sun. So how we do things and how we produce sheds and any nuance, there's nothing really new. It's the people aspect. Right, absolutely. How do we get people excited? How do we get people engaged? How do we communicate with people? How do we ensure that our organization is not this club? There's a clique over here, this group occasionally here.
Curt:Well, I guess the guys went so identifying the diamonds in the rough, and the people who are excited are part of this process, because there isn't anything new under the sun. There really isn't. Putting lipstick on a pig is still a pig. I mean, you understand what I'm saying in that aspect, but I do think it's helping the people aspect and helping companies recognize the value they have in their people.
Curt:I think it's also an important aspect that we like our clients to think about how do you develop the people? We have clients that they've got people that they brought in because they've had a ministry to that person and that person feels like well, you just gave me the job because you're ministering to people. Well, that's terrific, but now we're creating a value in you. How do you invest in those people? So that's a piece too, people got to feel wanted, they got to feel like they belong. All those are aspects of those things we talked about mission, vision, core values and culture, and putting all those pieces together is what we love to be able to help folks connect those, all those dots to help them make a thriving, successful business I'm gonna, we're not gonna stop.
Shannon:I got a little bit more to go, but I do want to take a break to. Uh, how do people find out more, Curt? You know to have some kind of conversation with you start with a discovery call, something along those lines. How do they find out more about you? How do they reach you?
Curt:So, I think one of the things that we love to be able to do with our clients is really to give them a, you know, 30 minutes of free consultation. So how do you schedule that? Go to our website, calculatellc. com, and go to the contact us area and it'll get to us and we'll schedule something to chat with you. You know, one of the things we like to do is nothing may come about it, but at least you've got a conversation with someone to bounce some thoughts off of. So again, it's calculatellc. com and just hit the contact us and we'll get the information and be able to chat with you. And we'd love to be able to do that because love to be able to find out what makes you tick and what challenge you may have. And if there's a fit there, then terrific.
Shannon:If not, hopefully we've given you some ideas that you can move forward with no-transcript things, including a way to listen to episode or watch the episode on YouTube. There's even a show directory if you need to go back and listen to previous ones. We get about 400 call ins a week through the plane communities who use the phone line to call in and go back and find your place and listen to different episodes, so all that's available. If you don't have access to Internet, through iBuyFax, find a friend or driver or somebody hauler, somebody that can get you access to that and print it off for you, somebody that can get you access to that and print it off for you. Obviously, it grows every week as we continue to put out shows, but encourage you to go on there. We want to try to put some blogs and different things on there for you guys to go and read so that it's offering you good content besides just listening to me and Curt sit here and talk about my bald head. There's a lot of good things there and you can find out where to find out more about Curt and Clark and their business and what they do. So I encourage you guys to go check those things out. I'm curious, Curt, what is your best business piece of advice right now through 2025, if you had to narrow it down.
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Curt:Well, I think of a couple things, Obviously going back to the roots, as the Bible says, it has everything that pertains to the life and godliness. So, stay connected that way, and I also say, as in a multitude of counselors, there's safety. So, surround yourself with great people, talk about the things you're going through, collaborate you mentioned it already communicate and collaborate. I think those are some key pieces and be consistent. I think those are some very important aspects that I could give to people and I've tried to live those myself as I move forward. I make my own mistakes and I always like to keep short accounts so that if something is wrong, I take care of it and deal with it and make it right, any questions you have for me, any question at all.
Shannon:One question, two question podcast family sheds, just anything that comes to mind that I can elaborate on.
Curt:I, .. consider you a great friend and every time we connect, there's just something about our conversations where it seems like we could talk for hours, and I certainly appreciate that. And for us, I think, as we're growing at this moment, we haven had done a lot of marketing out there because word of mouth has been terrific, but at the same moment, there are probably people out there that that need our help, and I think we've gone to you to help us with that, because I think it's a great partnership. You want to help, we want to help. I mean, are you?
Curt:know I was going to say from your perspective. You know what would you say based upon what we've talked through. You know what are some of the things you're seeing the industry, that that that we're hitting the mark on, or is there something that we should concentrate, a different on, that could really help your listeners, um, uh, be able to be more successful, or in whatever life spirit, whatever that may be.
Shannon:Well, you know, you know I'm excited Anybody who's advertising with us. We're excited to be able to, to help them. One of the and this gets me in trouble sometimes, but you know you can't make what is the saying. You can make some of the people happy all the time, all the people some of the time, but none of the people all the time right. And you know, the one thing that I've noticed about the shed industry, which is maybe comparable to other industries, is when they sell, their expectations are very high. When they sell, you know, a good example is like you know, well, we called them. They didn't answer the phone. You know, know, it's like well, maybe they were working right, or but there's just no. It's just kind of like the burden is on the buyer. Right Because their expectations for their product, because they know their product, they believe in their product, they like their product and they want to sell that product. But their expectations for buying are a little bit different, and maybe that's the case in all situations. But what I've noticed in the industry you know, like even guys like Peter Miller, and what they're doing with making sales simple, you know, like is it the end, all be all of everything. Sales, no, but guess what didn't happen. There was no official sales training that was happening in the industry. And, like, how dare they get chastised for creating something that's attempting to be helpful? And oh no, they you know what. If they want to make a dollar, or you know, I guarantee they're not getting rich off of that program, so it's got to be an ulterior motive. It's the same with. It's the same with you guys, you know what I mean. Like you have this business acumen and this business knowledge and this just you know what I'm saying, like this experience, and so the part for me is to get people to embrace programs, whether it be software, you know, or just different programs that hit the industry, you know. Have your mind be opened and not so closed to new ideas and new things, because it is the innovators, you know, that got us to where we are today, you know.
Shannon:And there's nothing wrong with sitting on tradition, because tradition is an awesome thing. It got us here. But I remember our pastor preaching a message one time about how the church really gave a lot of pushback about the song Amazing Grace. Whenever it was written, you know, and we think of. Amazing Grace is like this old fashioned thing now, right where you would have new Christians coming up, especially those that are probably more you know. Oh, I want to get myself in trouble, but you know more of a production style church or something to help bring in the world. And you know you can't become the world to reach the world, you know. But at the same time it's really nice to have this mixture of tradition and progressivism, because you need a little bit of both. Each generation's music always says this is terrible until the new one comes out, and then the new generation says that was old fashioned. It's that way in our clothing a lot of times and all that you know. The only one true thing that doesn't change is God and his word, and we try to measure against that.
Shannon:But you know there are ideas, practices, things like what you guys are doing, so many others that is helpful and the question is not is it helpful? It's? Will you prepare your mind, as a listener here to this episode today, to entertain that idea? Because that's where the magic starts, because that's when discovery calls happen, information becomes unfolded. So, like I encourage everyone to call, I love that you guys put yourself out there and I love that you're willing to spend an hour with me to come talk about what it is. You know we're putting content out there for free right now just for people to consume. That hopefully helps them, and I think that ought to show something about our character. Right Is that we want to help first. You know money's just the necessary part of what business is. But to be a servant and I know that you and Clark are servants I've learned that about you guys in in your heart's approach at what you do. So, you know, are you missing anything?
Curt:Not that I'm aware of, but I'm always learning too you know I'm always learning too and I think it is.
Curt:It goes back to and we're through this.
Curt:Hopefully we're trying to express to people that we're not, we're not saying we're, we're the, the typical consult that you have out there that you've heard about, that comes in here and gives you a bunch of great things, gives you a, gives you a 500 page PowerPoint presentation and says go, implement Right, or, as the Holy Spirit's, that paraclete for us, that person that comes alongside of you and helps you and encourages you and tells you when you're wrong and tries to lift you up and be there for you, for a crying shoulder, whatever that may be, that that that's what we are, that paraclete that we're trying to get for you, and I think that hopefully that message comes.
Curt:We are that paraclete that we're trying to get for you and I think that hopefully, that message comes across. And it's not about judging, it's not about it's about, as you mentioned earlier, iron, sharpening iron if we can be a help and encouragement to you in your spiritual life, that's the ultimate for us. And, along the way, if we're helping you on your business, well, terrific then right. But uh, and most importantly, we're trying to be that that person comes alongside you to help you to through your work journey, in your life journey
Shannon:Calculate llc.
Shannon:Is the website? Uh, Curt and Clark Paquette uh, just been excellent. Knowing you guys, I'm excited we finished. Unfortunately, Curt, it looks like we're going to have to do a round four because you know it didn't get finished today, so I look forward to that.
Curt:Always a pleasure being on with you and getting to know you and just kind of collaborating and thinking through these things. I know we have a very common passion and a common desire and that makes working together so much easier, and so I appreciate your friendship. I appreciate your allowing me to be on this, and Clark does as well, but I look forward to continuing these discussions and this friendship.
Shannon:In the mind of a guy who struggled to find purpose. It means more to me, the kind words that you say here today, than you'll ever know. It has been my life's journey and this industry has been so, so good to us and couldn't do a thing without God's permission. Couldn't get up and walk out of this door today without his. So, who would I be to not give it all to him? Kurt, I think we've asked you before, but I know you're a man of faith. I love you, know that we can still do prayer here, you know today on the podcast, and that you know that reaches people in their day, where they are. Would you care to just say a prayer over the industry as we finish?
Curt:I would love to.
Curt:I would love to.
Curt:God, I pray that you would help us, most importantly, to love you, to obey your word, that people would see how important it is to love you and to love your son and to recognize that the hope that we have can only come from Jesus Christ.
Curt:And we pray that our lives point towards you and encourage others to come to you. Lord, we know the Holy Spirit is in the business of doing that, so we pray that you would. We do his great work in that aspect and we do pray for our industry. We know it's an industry that cares about you and has a desire to honor you. We pray that you protect it. Protect it from anything that may come in to regulate and ruin all the great things that it's doing. I pray that you continue to help growth occur, that there would be spiritual wisdom, that we would lean upon one another as a Christian organization does, and we pray that you'd be pleased with all we say and do and, most importantly, that you'd receive all the honoring glory. Thank you for Shannon, thank you for what he does, thank you for the friendship we have and pray you bless his ministry as he seeks to encourage this industry into improvement and, most importantly, to honor you. We pray this in Christ's name.
Shannon:Amen, amen. Can't say enough good about you and Clark Calculate LLC guys. Go check them out today. Get you a discovery call. They're excellent people and I think you'll be blessed by it.
Curt:All right, thank you, Shannon. Have a good day.