Shed Geek Podcast

The Mountain View Story: Building Business Beyond Boundaries

• Shed Geek Podcast • Season 5 • Episode 43

Share episode

Send us a text

Ever wondered what it takes to build a thriving, diversified business in the shed industry? Norman Eicher of Mountain View takes us behind the scenes of his remarkable journey from humble beginnings to running a multifaceted enterprise that's continuously expanding.

Starting with a simple construction company that added shed sales in 2009, Norman has methodically grown his operation to include a truss plant, metal fabrication facility, and a full-scale lumberyard. The conversation reveals fascinating insights into his metal manufacturing innovations, where his team has developed techniques to produce trim pieces every 15 seconds rather than the traditional 30 seconds per piece. This kind of efficiency has allowed his metal business to nearly match his shed sales in revenue generation.

What makes this episode particularly valuable is Norman's candid discussion about business relationships and profit margins. "If my employee isn't making me money, why is he here? If I'm not making Sam money, I need to figure out what I'm doing wrong," he shares, highlighting a refreshing perspective on value creation throughout the supply chain. Norman articulates why being upset when others profit from your work represents a problematic mindset that limits growth and cooperation.

The episode takes fascinating detours into Norman's background – building rafters at age 12 for $2 an hour in Southern Ontario, his time in Illinois learning the shed business, and finally establishing his Tennessee operation in 2006. His approach to quality, particularly in customer interactions, underscores why superior service trumps price-cutting. "If your price is within 15%, they will buy based on your personality and your way of approaching them," he notes, explaining why one of his salespeople consistently outperforms expectations.

Whether you're directly involved in the shed industry or simply interested in business growth strategies, Norman's philosophy that "quality will long outlast quantity" offers timeless wisdom. His predictions about market consolidation and insights on keeping transportation in-house provide food for thought for anyone navigating similar business decisions.

Ready to learn more about diversification strategies that can weather market fluctuations? Listen now and discover how innovation, relationship-building, and unwavering quality standards have positioned Mountain View for continued success in an evolving market.


For more information or to know more about the Shed Geek Podcast visit us at our website.

Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube at the handle @shedgeekpodcast.

To be a guest on the Shed Geek Podcast visit our website and fill out the "Contact Us" form.

To suggest show topics or ask questions you want answered email us at info@shedgeek.com.

This episodes Sponsors:
Studio Sponsor: Union Grove Lumber

Cardinal Manufacturing

Cardinal Leasing

Shed Challenger

Sam:

All right, guys. Welcome back to another episode of the Shed Geek podcast. Friday fun days with Sam Basseter I'm your host, Sam Byler and guys, I'm so excited about being here today. Man, I got to get back to doing some of these live. I'm depending on these zoom calls all the time and it's it's not near as good as when I can show up in person, and we were going to do this one in person and things just don't always work out. Now I'm kind of under a travel ban till I get my back figured out a little better.

Sam:

So anyway, I am here with Norman Eicher from Mountain View, Belvedere, Tennessee, back all the way to where we had the first big bash. We had the Montana one, but the first big Tennessee bash. We were over there at the community center and then we did all the activities over at Mountain View. And then we did all the activities over at Mountain View and Norman was kind enough to reach out to us way back in the early stages of planning saying, hey, anything we have over here you're welcome to use. Man, you guys were fantastic hosts. How are you today?

Norman Eicher:

I'm doing fine. Thank you, Sam, for the intro there. Uh, yep, my, my background was. I remember Sam coming in here. This curly-haired guy walks in and I'm like, who is this? And we kind of hit off and been friends ever since.

Sam:

Absolutely. Some days I wonder how the bash would have gone if we'd have been as good of friends as we are now. If we did back then, we'd have probably gotten some trouble back then.

Norman Eicher:

We'd have probably gotten a lot of trouble.

Sam:

Yep, so you guys didn't start out originally as shed builders did you.

Norman Eicher:

No, we did not. We started out as a construction company and then bought a property on a divided highway, had someone here here decided we wanted to sell some sheds. My partner and I at that point were both had a background in sheds. I had worked for my uncle building sheds from a very young age, and then my partner's father had a kind of shed company in Illinois that he sold some sheds at, and I had worked for them there as well. So we were both very familiar with selling sheds, and so we actually found a supplier and we started selling some. At that point the supplier only made treated sheds, so we were into the metal.

Norman Eicher:

Metal siding, metal roofing is what we promoted. So we started playing around toying, building a couple metal sheds, building everything vertical, nothing horizontal, um, the typical way you would see it, put on a pole barn or whatever, and the company's just growing from there. We would have opened doors here in 2009. And then in 2014, we would have added a trust plant. And yeah, we've just kind of been adding on ever since. I think there's some more in the plans, oh no, some more I don't know how far that?

Norman Eicher:

oh yeah, no, we need another, another. I've got scheduled to build another 80 by 400, so wow you guys.

Sam:

So talk about the metal side a little bit. You guys do all your own metal stuff we do.

Norman Eicher:

We put a roll former in of our own in 20, 20, 2021, and that's continually been growing as well. In 2021, we would have added about 30,000 square feet here, and in 2022, we added another 20,000, and I'm looking to build another 32,000, so, okay, how's your?

Sam:

so I think the last time I was there maybe, I don't know one of the last times I was there you had started playing around with not bending trim but rolling trim. Are you still? Is that a secret, or are we talking about that, or?

Norman Eicher:

no, that's going. Are you still doing it? Oh yeah, we still. We still do a lot of all our normal trims are pretty much rolled. It's just so much quicker. Um, just give you an idea. Yeah, a piece of j channel, if you do it on the break, is going to take you probably around 30 seconds or so between 20 and 30 seconds to make a piece of j channel, and the other day two of my guys ran in 1200 pieces of j channel in just under five hours. Oh wow, and it's very easy. There's nothing to it.

Sam:

A lot less stressful, a lot less action, involvement.

Norman Eicher:

It's just so much quicker. Nice, that works out to a PCJ channel about every 15 seconds and you could never maintain that doing that on a break.

Norman Eicher:

The key being maintain yeah yeah you can probably do one or two pieces and then you're going to be done and not do a maintained. It's just not going to happen. Yeah, yep. So so we, we ran, we rolled four metal and two different profiles in a 36-inch wide screw-down panel, and then, of course, we do board and we do standing seam, and we have. Last spring my two big purchases were a brand-new automated saw for the truss plant and a double-bend VarioBend. So I have a double folder from vario bend. It folds both ways fully automatic with the fingers. It's really, really sped up our trim side wow, probably this year, my big pushes.

Norman Eicher:

I'm going to have to add on again and then do a slit line with nesting function and, you know, automated functions on it to get my speed back up to where it needs to be.

Sam:

So what is and I don't know, this probably might not even be important to you, but for a guy like me sitting and watching is do you do more trusses? Do you do more metal? Do you do more sheds? Do you do more metal? Do you do more sheds? Do you not care?

Norman Eicher:

you just roll them all wherever they go dollar wise, we're doing more in sheds dollar wise, you do more sheds yeah, dollar wise, we do more in sheds and the metal side is going to be almost even with that this year.

Sam:

Okay.

Norman Eicher:

But then I've added lumber. We're a full-scale lumberyard as well, and that's been a struggle. We're in the south, a very tight-knit, close community and everybody knows everybody. Yeah, and any new kid on the block, he's looked on with utmost suspicion. I get it. He's got nefarious, uh, he's got nefarious ideas. Um, you know, even if I do the same as what my local lumberyard is, um, it's not good enough. So, yeah, it's a learning curve and it's it's building to putting the right people in the right place. And, yeah, on glick, uh, to give you feedback, to help you make you better.

Sam:

So, oh yeah, absolutely so does. Uh, on your trust side, do you have I can't remember if we talked about this or not do you actually build pole barns or do you just supply all the materials for pole barns?

Norman Eicher:

We currently have two of our own crews building pole barns, and then we'll still sub some out.

Sam:

Okay, yeah. So that's where the lumber between that and sheds. That's where your lumber demand came from, anyway.

Norman Eicher:

Yeah, so we were stocking most of the stuff you needed at a lumber yard anyway, so it just made sense to add some more and then try to try to move some of it. Yeah, and that and that keeps growing. It's that's. That's been a very interesting piece. Yep, it's a lot harder to get into than I anticipated.

Sam:

Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. Locally here we have Yoder's Building Supply which has been around. They're obviously not a new kid on the block but compared to Lowe's Home Depot 84 Lumber some of those guys they would be considered that. But locally here they kick those guys tails um. Yoder's probably supplies more contractors than five or six lows locally put together. Yeah but, so my local loads.

Norman Eicher:

yeah, my local lows in home Home Depot are a joke. They don't do anything. But I've got a local lumberyard just down the road. There's two decent lumberyards within 15, 20 miles. Yeah, the one I've always had a very good relationship with. The other one has been paranoid of me ever since I started here.

Sam:

So uh, uh, yeah. Well, I'll tell you the same thing. We tell shed companies, you know, when another shed company moves in, I'm like if, if you believe in your product, you worried about anybody else? If? You believe in your service. Uh, you know, product or service. Pick which one you want to be and build on that. I've preached this for years. Everybody knows this about me Competition is good. Competition is good for me, it's good for you, it's good for everybody else.

Norman Eicher:

That's what I find. I've got two shed companies local. I go to church with one that builds for one of them. The other one I know well. We back and forth. We built his. He added on three times in the last 15 years and we've done all three additions to his shops. Yeah, yep, we've had a good relationship with them. I try to you know what with them. I'll even go as far as they'll call me and go hey, we ran out of hinges, do you have any? I'm like, yeah, just here's a box, just replace it. That's how we've always worked and I appreciate that. That means a lot to me.

Sam:

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I agree that's. That's important. So so it sounds like one of the things I always try to figure out is where are you headed next? What are you doing next? Sounds like your metal's picking up. You're headed back harder on that. So do you have? Do you like supply stores with metal, or are you strictly selling to public? Where's your metal go?

Norman Eicher:

combination. Uh, we got in with some chicken house guys. We're supplying some chicken houses and we just became a Lowe's vendor about two months ago, so we're starting to sell some to Lowe's and that's a weird market. That, right, there is a weird market. I mean, they have brand loyalty like I've not seen anything like we'll do lumber packages for them. That I'm just like how I couldn't sell to a contractor locally for what I'm charging them and they don't care. I don't, I don't know, is it? I don't have an answer for that. I guess I'm not in that long enough, but I'm not. I shouldn't. Maybe. Maybe that's a secret.

Norman Eicher:

I shouldn't have an answer for that, I guess I'm not in that long enough, but I'm not.

Norman Eicher:

I shouldn't. Maybe that's a secret I shouldn't have passed on, but that one there has been really good for us.

Sam:

That's interesting, yeah, yeah. Well, I know you know the same thing here locally I don't. 20 years ago, 25 years ago, Lowe's started outsourcing trusses, you know. So our Lowe's around here, our economy is so dadgum crazy which I know it is there too, and you you've got Huntsville pushing up from the bottom there too. But like they started outsourcing trusses and packages and some stuff like that, just because they weren't able to handle it all in-house. I remember walking into the Seneca Lowe's and there's an overhauled truss hanging up there and it says overhauled truss on it. They're like yeah, if you get trusses, it'll be delivered from overhauled truss. I know they do that kind of stuff.

Norman Eicher:

Lowe's does not have their own plants, they're just simply like a Walmart of buildings, moving Yep. I don't quite understand some of the loyalty that they generate. But then, on the other hand, I guess if you have a Lowe's account, they sell it to you at a certain price and then you get a discount which your invoice still shows If you're doing cost plus. I guess I understand some of the games that contractors like to play. Hey Sam, here's my invoice for $2,000. And Lowe's says well, I'm a contractor, I'm going to give you five percent or eight percent off of that invoice.

Norman Eicher:

So it puts an extra percentage back in the contractor's pocket by doing some of the things they do.

Sam:

Well, I, I mean, yeah, I've, I've had a pro account with Lowes for, oh my word, long before I moved to South Carolina. So for 25, 27, 28 years that I've had a pro account through them and, yeah, I get. You know you, you get the, you get the discount on your packages, so to speak. You get special sometimes. Now they have it to where if I, if, even if I don't use my pro card account, like to pay for it, they have my credit cards registered on there to where I click I collect rewards and then I use rewards cards to pay for it. So I'm getting three to five percent off of their side and I'm getting three to five percent off my credit card side and then I'm getting five percent off my packages. It'll it. It adds up to where at least it takes some of the stress off of some of the purchase you have to make outside of your business.

Norman Eicher:

Stuff you're doing, it does it adds up and and that's that's one thing I I'm seeing play out in the contractor world that I that's a game I've never played. I'm a gc in Tennessee and Alabama and you know I've always bought my stuff in quantity, wholesale, whatever, and I've never played the game of okay, I'm going to build it, cost plus. I go to the lumber yard and get an invoice and knowing that my invoice is going to be 5% less, yep, if I pay it on time it's going to be 5% less than this. So I'm building the house for 20% above cost. So technically I can gain another 5% of that. So I understand why guys are doing it.

Advertisement:

Yep, I got a big day. Tomorrow I have a fully finished 18 by 40 cabin. That's going to require two to three mils to get it delivered Way back in the sticks and down a dirt lane. With all the rain we've had lately, it's going to be a mess, but it needs a bigger mule. Well, when you talk.

Advertisement:

Cardinal listens, and you asked for it. With its diesel-powered 69-horse engine and capacity to move 40,000-pound sheds, the Mule 9069 is ready to turn your big days into just another day in the good life.

Advertisement:

Ah, that's right. You're talking about the one they had up at Michigan at the Shed Show, that monster meal man. That thing was awesome.

Advertisement:

That's right, it's the one you've seen at all the Shed Holler barbecues.

Advertisement:

Man, yeah, there's nothing like a little diesel donkey to make my day go so much better.

Sam:

What up Are you still in the window business?

Norman Eicher:

Yeah, still I am, I need some windows.

Sam:

I don't need a semi-load of them and I know that's what you like. That's basically what you're doing, right. You're not selling basic. I mean, you're like selling windows out by the semi-loan.

Norman Eicher:

No, no, we're a retail location. We deal with a ton of contractors.

Sam:

So have you thought the reason I brought that most people. You might be wondering why in the world is he bringing up windows when we're talking with a shed conversation? Have you ever thought about pushing it on the shed side? I have not. Do you want to sell windows to shed manufacturers?

Norman Eicher:

No, I guess I've just never really thought about it. I have enough to take care of. That's going to be an idea I need to pursue at some point, probably, but probably not today, because I've got.

Sam:

I've got other things I need to take care of, so yeah, so you don't want everybody blowing up your phone right now. They want to get winded from you.

Norman Eicher:

I'd be happy to do that. It just it'd be hard, depending on where you're at, to get them to you efficiently and cost effective yeah so that now you're mimicking exactly what you told me about buying metal from you.

Sam:

Remember, I pushed you hard to get metal down here for us and you, you're pretty, you're pretty logistically savvy to the fact that you've got an imaginary line out there that you stop at or all of a sudden, it just doesn't become cost effective.

Norman Eicher:

It doesn't become cost effective to ship a finished product that far. Your volume has to be so high to make that make sense and I'm going to share a little bit why I see that happen. I was purchasing out of Southern Indiana for years and because I didn't like the quality and what I could get locally Yep. Like the quality in what I could get locally Yep. The extra I was paying in price and the aggravation and frustration of making that happen made me probably a lot more aware of at some point. Logistically it doesn't become practical because you're going to pay more in shipping than than your items are worth.

Sam:

Yeah.

Norman Eicher:

If you, if you and you have to run that ratio and make that make sense. And that's kind of the same way with shed companies. If you, if you start, if you start hauling a finished product 300 miles, it's hard to make that make sense. It's hard to make that make sense when you can haul a raw product and have someone build it 20 miles from there. And then you have, then then you, you just set up another hub and you keep going.

Sam:

Yeah.

Norman Eicher:

Simply because you know sheds is an oversized community, trusts is another thing. That's. It looks a little difficult, but for me I kind of run everything on a case basis. If you're talking $30,000 worth of product, there's enough overhead there to swing some of your logistic cost. But if you're talking something down running at like a 5 of five or six percent margin, there's not enough. There's no money in it by the time you pay shipping.

Sam:

Yeah, that makes sense.

Norman Eicher:

It's not just as easy as shipping it with UPS.

Sam:

Yeah, but it is amazing to me how many times I see sheds getting shipped four, five, six, seven states away. Pennsylvania is still famous for doing it.

Norman Eicher:

I can't make that make sense logistically.

Sam:

Yeah.

Sam:

Unless they're. So the argument that I've heard already. Now some of the stuff that I see shipped out of Pennsylvania to Texas, to Arizona, to Colorado, to California, is back to what you're talking about. You're talking $100,000 to $120,000 loads and up, and then, like you said, there's a little more pie in there to split up, but it's still. So often I'll see a load of sheds, you know, Pennsylvania truck, a load of sheds going into Florida, Pennsylvania truck, a load of sheds going into Florida, Pennsylvania truck, load of sheds going, you know, past me here somewhere, and it's just, it's mind boggling to me. And those guys aren't crazy, they've been doing it a long time. Then they still figure out.

Sam:

Now, some of those truckers, they will they back. Like Omar transport, he'll backhaul, he's got his trailers built to where they can haul just about anything on a backhaul. As to where I'm more of the guy, I'm not even going to spend time to try to find something. Bring back. I'm going to go back and get my next one and go again. You know, I don't. I don't want to fool with that, which would be the same way if you're delivering metal, you want to do your four or five drops and go back home.

Norman Eicher:

Yeah Well, so I'm going to give you a little scenario I don't think we've ever talked about. I had a company from Pennsylvania reach out to me about some sheds going on to a government project down here. They held a government contract. I built them to their specs. I think we did close to 20 sheds.

Sam:

Yep.

Norman Eicher:

Went down to an arsenal in Alabama. So in those specific scenarios they have their contractors that they want to use or have to use or something like that. So I totally understand at those points. Yes, at those points. Yeah, yes, he made, he made as he made more than I did by having that contract and just getting me to do it locally. Yeah, bank on that, on that project. But I, if he wouldn't have used me, I would have had no way of getting the contract, because those contacts and those contracts take a long time to build and maintain.

Sam:

Oh, yeah, yep, I locally.

Norman Eicher:

I do a lot for the government simply because I carry the proper insurances and all of that stuff and there's a lot of people that don't. I guess I just got a job the other day that somebody else was cheaper but they didn't have the proper stuff and so we ended up with with the project simply because there was nobody else that could do it. Yeah, yeah, but that takes a lot of desk work sitting here behind in a desk chair getting those, getting everything crossed, every dot, everything has to be dotted, everything has to be done right. You have to have the right accounts, you have the right paperwork on file, you have to have the right insurance, you have to have I mean, there's just the listing. For those type of projects. The money is lucrative.

Sam:

There's a lot of back-end work that goes on to get it yeah, I was gonna say I've talked to some of those guys that have those contracts and some days they're even like was the back, all the back work that we did? Was it even worth doing it? And they're like, yeah, if you can keep them, if you can keep them and keep going at it, but it does it takes. It takes a. I mean that's, that's four or five years ago. Yeah, hold on. Seven years ago, 2018. Seven years ago, I did a project for Michelin and it was the same way. It was so many hoops and stuff that you had to jump through to get ready to do this. You know, I mean, it wasn't even that big a project. It was big for my woodworking shop at the time. But after a while you're like, can we just get the project done? I mean, you know and's, but then once you were done, you know, when they needed something else done, it was done. You were, it was a breeze.

Sam:

Yeah it was a breeze.

Norman Eicher:

So but and here's what I'm seeing a lot, a lot of the smaller guys don't have the office staff or the personnel to handle the paperwork that needs to go be done on those projects and so, yeah, that's going to see someone very large get it. And you know, on those things, you know, on a 17, 17 shed bundle you're talking, he he probably made 80, 90 000 on top of what he paid me. Basically, he priced him coming out of Pennsylvania, priced him delivery coming out of Pennsylvania, bought him from me for the same price. He could have got him out of Pennsylvania in pocket of the delivery fees.

Norman Eicher:

He did very well, I don't begrudge that because I know what goes on to make these things happen. Yeah, it's really really hard, could?

Sam:

we ever go down a rabbit hole on that? Why is it so hard to understand? That's not a word, that's not what I'm looking for. Why is it so hard to be okay with somebody making money off of you making money? Where did we get off on that? You know what I'm saying and listen, I'm going to preach straight at shed haulers for a minute right here. They want to always cry about the fact that the big man is making so much money, you know. And why aren't they making more? When they're making money, they're doing good. You follow what I'm saying.

Norman Eicher:

Oh, I follow what I'm saying. I'm going to come at it from the other perspective, so I'm going to play. I'm the big man, you know who pays the insurance.

Sam:

Yeah.

Norman Eicher:

Who pays when that shed blows apart on the road and somebody gets killed?

Sam:

I'm I'm glad you brought that up, because we can't get some of the big men to pay for those they're like. It's on your trailer, it's your problem um, so I'm gonna share that I.

Norman Eicher:

If something like that happens, I feel I'm in the boat as much as anybody else. That's why you're one of the good guys. I don't know about that, Sam, but then it comes down to if there's something wrong with the shed who pays for it?

Norman Eicher:

Even five years down the road, if that thing starts leaking, who sends somebody to fix it and take care of it and make sure the customer is taken care of? And I'll just share. Sometimes there's heartburn in what I'm doing because it seems every time I turn around there's risk. I'm putting myself out there. I'm taking all the risk. Yes, I'm, I'm taking all the risk. Yes, I'm making money, but at the end of the day I'm also putting myself out there and taking a ton of risk. Um, you know, if I purchased that a hundred thousand dollars worth of material and the bottom falls out, um, you know, the anticipated 25% tariffs don't hit and the, instead of material going up, it goes down. Who takes that hit? You know you have a lot of money in play that it feels like at the end of the day there's sometimes not a lot of rewards for the back-end effort that you put in.

Sam:

Yeah, yeah.

Norman Eicher:

Who makes the sure. You know it's like I'm paying office staff to you know, process the order. Make sure it's done. Make sure taxes get paid. Make sure my dealers get paid. Make sure that you know if we have lots that everybody gets paid. Make sure that there's enough money in the bank to pay the haulers. It's just you.

Sam:

You know, yeah, there's money coming in, but it a lot of times it tends to go out just as quick, and most times, if I can get them to listen long enough, it's like, look, you do the same thing. You don't know where your fuel cost is going to be. You don't know where this is going to be, you don't know where that's going to be. It's the same way. You're not going. You don't want to haul for cheap, you know. So it's um it. It works both directions. The thing that frustrates me is when, when they find out, or when somebody and I'm saying it goes either direction on this, when they find out that you might have made extra money on it, or whatever they're like.

Sam:

Oh blah, blah, blah, blah. You don't want to run off about that. It or whatever they're like oh water, blah, blah, blah. You'll never want to run off about that. And I'm like, since when? If, if I tell you that I'm a hall sheds for you and you're going to pay me five grand a week, why do I care? If you make five grand a week or 500 grand a week, what difference does it make, doesn't? None so? So that's why, yeah, that's why I feel like too often we kind of forget the part that we all need each other. And if he makes good this time, I'll make some somewhere else sometime.

Sam:

At the end of the day, we're all still moving forward am I too harsh to say?

Norman Eicher:

that's a little bit an Amish mentality, Amish Mennonite mentality that I can't stand. That if another Amish or Mennonite makes a dollar on me, I see that. I see that a lot. Somehow we think we're entitled. You know we're not. We're not entitled to anything in life. No, there's nothing that I am owed. We're not entitled to anything in life. No, there's nothing that I am owed. Sam doesn't owe me anything. I've tried to go out of my way to help him but he doesn't owe me anything, just who I am.

Norman Eicher:

If Sam puts a deal together and I tell him I'll sell him that shed for $9,000 and Sam can sell it for $18,000, guess what? That's not my. I agreed to sell it to Sam for $9,000. I don't really care what Sam makes off of it's not why is that why? Does that. Why should I let that bother me?

Sam:

I don't know, man, I don't have the answer and I guess I'm asking that, trying to make people think like why? Should.

Norman Eicher:

I let that bother me.

Sam:

Yeah.

Norman Eicher:

You know, Sam's got costs, he's got to live too. So if I'm not doing something, if I'm not making Sam money and he's buying product from me, then I need to go. I need to figure out what I'm doing wrong, because if Sam can't make money on it, then it's no use for him to do it. There's no reason for him to do it.

Sam:

Yes, this is true, and then if we don't have each other, we're not getting our job finished.

Norman Eicher:

Yeah, and that's kind of the way I view employer employee relations. Oh, absolutely Same thing. If my employee isn't making me money, I can't afford to pay his taxes. I can't afford to pay his health care, I can't afford to give him a bonus at the end of the year. I can't afford to have a desk for him to sit in. If he's not making me money, I'm paying for the space for him to be here, and if he's not making me money, then why is he here?

Sam:

Yeah, because pretty soon neither one of y'all are going to be there. Yes, yep, good point.

Norman Eicher:

So I think we need to get it through our head that if we're not making the other person money, there's something wrong in what we're doing. Yeah, yeah that's, that's fair sorry I went off on a rant there, but that's just no, no, no, no, no. I just yeah, I agree, I I have. That's bothered me like something crazy. I see these and particularly I'm still beachy Amish and and I see that in that culture they just if another man makes a dollar on him. It's just terrible. I can't see that why.

Sam:

But we're okay going to Lowe's and letting Lowe's make a dollar off of us.

Norman Eicher:

Yeah, we're totally fine with that.

Sam:

You know what I'm saying. Yeah, Shannon's going to be like man. I don't know where these two got off on this. Why am I not in on this conversation?

Advertisement:

Unlock the power of productivity with Cardinal Leasing. Are you looking to elevate your business operations with top-tier equipment? Look no further than Cardinal Leasing. We offer a wide range of reliable and high-quality equipment tailored to meet your unique needs. Flexible leasing options Whether you need short-term rentals or long-term solutions, our customizable leasing plans are designed to provide maximum flexibility and affordability. Conventional financing available Cardinal Leasing also offers great conventional finance options for those of you that prefer that over-lease purchase options. Expert support Our team of experienced professionals is here to guide you every step of the way, ensuring a seamless leasing experience. Boost efficiency With our top-of-the-line equipment, you can enhance productivity, reduce downtime and achieve your business goals faster. Why choose Cardinal Leasing? Competitive rates, exceptional customer service, hassle-free process, quick and easy approvals. Don't let outdated equipment hold you back. Partner with Cardinal Leasing today and take your business to the next equipmentcardinalleasing. us, or call us at 618-803-4086 to get started.

Sam:

So we you know I don't think I ever heard the term race to the bottom until I got to know Shannon Latham, and he's constantly harping on the and Dave Miller. Dave Miller, when I first started, you know, working with him on the rent to own side um fact, Shannon might have stole it from Dave, to be honest with you, because Dave is, you know he's he's always been of the opinion that you know we need to quit this race to the bottom. You know rent to't companies do it, manufacturers do it, shed lots up and down the same road, you know it's. It's like uh and home depot and Lowe's don't do it. You know they might run a special on something to get you in the door to see everything else.

Sam:

You know I remember back in the day, man, this all the way back in the early 90s, when you know sometimes they would run a special on studs or they would run a special on studs or they would run a special on plywood or something. You know where you could. You could get it dirt cheap but when you were in there you bought everything else you needed to and you know it's it's. I've noticed we're getting tight again a little bit. And on on the shed sales, the professionals shed sales professionals page, I've seen it creeping up again where some dealers are starting to fuss about other dealers' prices and stuff. It's so hard for me not just to shake my head at them and be like, come on, guys, but it gets into you that man. He's selling that 10x 16 for 400 bucks less than I am, and it's like it's not the same shit.

Norman Eicher:

My question is go look at the sheds.

Sam:

And. I would tell my guy to go Tell the customer. Go look at it, You'll see what the difference is.

Norman Eicher:

You'll see what the difference is, but I guarantee you over 50% of your customers will buy based on your personality and your way of approaching them, versus what your price are. If your price is within 15%, they will. What's 15%?

Sam:

Nothing to them If you walk out there.

Norman Eicher:

I have a salesman here that I will put up against anybody I've ever run up against. Older gentleman People love him. Comes out with his cowboy hat and his cowboy, his starch jeans, you know, stand up by themselves. Yeah, well-dressed, well-spoken People love him. Yeah, spoken people love him. Yeah, we sell more sheds because of him than you ever. It's just his personality. So if you come across as you're some bum, you don't care what you look like. You're here to sell them the cheapest thing that that you can put slap together and get to them versus I care about you. Here's what we're doing different. Here's how we're different. We try to take care of you. We try to build something different. This is why we do what we do. If you're within the ballpark, people will buy.

Sam:

I agree, yep, and I still know those. I've still got them. There are some really good online salespeople out there. I've seen some of their numbers. I know what they can do and not at all knocking on what they do because they're good at it, not at all knocking what they do because they're good at it. But there are four or five people that I know in the southeast that sell just as much dollar wise that do very little online.

Norman Eicher:

It's all based on their personality based on their product knowledge and based on they sell themselves before they ever sell their product. And it still works it. It works, it just does, and you don't have to be a car salesman uh no, to make it happen.

Sam:

No, I'm even starting to see some of that shift in car sales if you like car? Magic, changing some of that.

Norman Eicher:

You walk out there and you're confident in yourself. You're well-spoken, you know what. You know, your product. I promise you you will sell sheds.

Sam:

Yep.

Norman Eicher:

But the flip side of that is stay in your office and let your people just wander around the lot, not go out and talk to them and then come whine to me. You can't sell sheds, it just won't sell.

Sam:

And that is not a hypothetical situation either. It happens.

Norman Eicher:

Look, I've been doing this for over 20 years. I know how to sell sheds.

Sam:

I was here by myself on a Saturday, one Saturday Sam, from 9 o'clock to 2 o'clock, I sold six sheds. Yep, it happens. Let's get back to what you're doing with sheds. You said that originally you started out with wood sheds.

Norman Eicher:

We were selling you were selling somebody else's Correct. So we were. I was a little interesting there Through a family friend. They brought us some sheds. They didn't want to, but he talked them into bringing us some sheds.

Norman Eicher:

They set us up three or four sheds and we were like it's really hard to sell sheds with two or three sheds, ended up borrowing some money and buying wholesale for a couple of years, and then, and during that time is when we started building metal sheds and and then at some point they said they would no longer, they don't want to deal with us anymore, so we started building our own wood sheds.

Sam:

I was going to say you build wood sheds. Now what point did you? Yeah, so do you know what's the ratio these days? We sell.

Norman Eicher:

We sell a little better than 50% in metal.

Sam:

Okay, so metal still does a little bit more.

Norman Eicher:

oh yeah, we're doing a wood green, a lot of wood grain stuff now yes, that's right, you are doing wood grain some pretty stuff yeah you know the wood. You never have to paint it, Sam. It's so much better than wood. Yeah, you're much better. Still looks like wood. You know you can have wood look, but it's so much better.

Sam:

I'm with you, still doing your double wides and stuff.

Norman Eicher:

Oh yeah, we're still doing. I heard that one of the bigger names in the shed industry is starting to do double wides now.

Sam:

Oh, you heard something I haven't heard yet, but I've been stuck in the hills of North Carolina for seven months.

Norman Eicher:

I heard old Hickory's doing double wides now.

Sam:

Oh nice. So way back in the day I used to get double wides from a company called Robin. Robin is a 50-year-old shed company from down in South Georgia. Robin is a 50-year-old shed company from down in South Georgia and I used to buy sheds from them because I could get double-wide garages from them and they actually would build a 30-foot. How do I explain this? So you could get a 12-by-30 building and the roof ran the 30, the 30 foot way side gable, so to speak. Yep, and when you did that, you could go as long as you wanted to go with a 30 wide building, 12 foot at a time, and keep slapping them things together, one right after the other one. I did one one time where I don't remember, I think it was seven or eight of them. I did one one time where I don't remember I think it was seven or eight of them and we almost had a 30 by 100 foot building Set with still has the floors blocked them up and everything bolted trusses together.

Norman Eicher:

Hmm, but that roof slope must have been like what.

Sam:

A lot, probably Maybe one and a half, and that was back when it was that metal that when we put like when we connected them together you would bend it over at the top and run it down the other side it was.

Norman Eicher:

it was like I don't know if it was aluminum.

Sam:

Yeah, it was like it was like almost a corrugated pattern. But no, you would just slap the sheet up, go up at the top and, very carefully, just fold it down and send it down the other side and that's how you put them all together. I still think yeah, because the middle sections wouldn't have no gables, they'd just be open, and you would double truss, bolt that truss together, bolt the floor together and slap that piece of plywood in the floor.

Norman Eicher:

How many do you?

Sam:

want. No, I don't want to do that anymore.

Norman Eicher:

I'll get you as many as you want.

Sam:

I bet you will too.

Norman Eicher:

No, I'm serious. If that's what you want, Sam, I'll be happy to do it for you nope, nope, nope, nope.

Sam:

I think I'm done with those days. I think that probably made me old before my time. And that, listen, we weren't setting those on slabs either, we were blocking them. So you'd start on the ground and you go out 50 feet and you're, you know, there. You know, tell them where you were off the ground.

Norman Eicher:

Yeah, yeah, and you know customers always right. Just started the job this morning on the construction side that the customer said he shot transit on four inches off in a 30 by 30. I think he measured he got messed up between four inches and four foot because it's four foot off.

Sam:

No way, yeah and 30 feet, we've been there.

Norman Eicher:

It's pretty level. Pretty level Four inches off, four inches off.

Sam:

Well, now you know. So the bad thing about a transit is, if it's not a self-leveling one, you don't know what you're getting. Yeah, yeah, I never. I just bought me a new transit, probably two months ago, and these are like when I was researching them or whatever all these new transits you get it just close and the things self-level themselves. You know, back in the day when I started, we were looking through the rifle scopes, you had to have that thing set for different, like you would spin it all the way around, spin it over here and spin it there and adjust it, because there was no self-leveling involved. You had to be, right.

Norman Eicher:

Yep, my dad had one of those for years, that's what. I did. I got into construction. It's, pop it on, hit the button, walk away from it. By the time you get to where you want to go, it's running and you're good to go.

Sam:

Yep, I'm sitting there and I'm like man I don't know if I trust this thing or not Just because I don't understand it.

Norman Eicher:

Yes, sir, Yep. No, you were asking about where we started from. Typically for me, at least some of this stuff is so. I've done it all my life. So if I see an opportunity, I try to capitalize on it, jump into it and yeah yeah, great, my company's grown beyond the days where it was just me. It's been an interesting journey.

Sam:

Yeah, it's hard to let, and I know you're enough, like me, that it's hard to let some of that stuff go and let somebody else take care of it.

Norman Eicher:

Yeah, but I've learned, if I don't, I'll go crazy.

Sam:

Yeah you will in a hurry, yep.

Norman Eicher:

There's and there's people that are better qualified to do some of those things. I'm better. I do better at being the innovator, the creator. I'm the one that comes with the ideas. I can do a lot of the implementation, but when it comes down to being here making my people do the job, I want to get the result I want to. Somebody else can do it so much better than I can.

Sam:

Yeah.

Norman Eicher:

It's not my gift. Yeah, I'm trying to do better about that.

Sam:

Let's go back even further. Nobody's originally from that area.

Norman Eicher:

No, I was born and raised in southern Ontario, a little town called Elmer Ontario. Yeah, I heard of pathway publishing. I grew up just quarter mile south pathway wagler printed. Printed all the family life young companion blackboard bullet all the books my mom was uh.

Norman Eicher:

So I grew up my uncle there. He told me he built his first shed in 75. And he still got it. But I would have. My sister would have worked there for 12 years and I used to go back there after school was over and work for another three hours after school building rafters. I would have probably been 12, 13. This is interesting. I know I'm pretty young yet, but at that time when I started, they paid me $2 an hour to build their rafters for them.

Sam:

Too bad, you can't find that guy now.

Norman Eicher:

A lot of things have happened since then.

Sam:

When did you leave Canada?

Norman Eicher:

I left in 2003. January of 2003. Been out on my own ever since.

Sam:

Went to Tennessee from there, or did you stop somewhere?

Norman Eicher:

along the way. I spent four years in Illinois.

Sam:

That's right. You said you had an uncle that was over there.

Norman Eicher:

Yeah, I had an uncle over there in Illinois. He was buying and selling sheds, delivering sheds, buying and selling sheds, delivering sheds. So from 2003 to fall of 2006,. So almost four years I would have spent there. He built gazebos, sold sheds, built Paul Barnes. We did Conklin roofing spray foam for some of those years as well. So we've been involved in some of that as well.

Advertisement:

Introducing the Challenger, the revolutionary new shed mover that's taking the industry by storm. The Challenger features a touchless design ensuring it only makes contact at the end of the skids and the bottom of the floor joists. So rest easy knowing your gable walls will remain pristine. Worried about reliability? Fear not, the Challenger is always up for the challenge and will not overturn or scuff your shed. Harness the power of innovative wireless technology. Remotely control the Challenger via your smartphone. No cell service needed. And guess what? The cell phone remote comes standard with every Challenger, at no extra cost.

Advertisement:

Featuring floating forks, a four-directional tilting mast and sliding weight transfer, move the shed weight precisely where you need it to get ultimate traction, with self-loading capability, straight onto your truck. Say goodbye to the need for a hydraulic carriage. The Challenger makes your job easy and more efficient. Choose from two machine sizes 10,000 pounds and 15,000 pounds. Perfect for any job. Visit www. shedchallenger. com or email us at info at shedchallenger. com, or call or text 828-220-3508 for more information. Experience the future of shed moving with the Challenger.

Sam:

I had my Conklin spray foam years too, back in the early 90s. Karen's my wife's uncle was well I know. For years he had plaques on the wall. This is before all the big shots showed up, but he was the Eli Yoder.

Sam:

Eli Yoder I didn't know if she was kin to like the Utsi boys. No, I'm actually kin to the Utsi boys, but we're n ot going to tell anybody that.

Sam:

But that was before they ever got into it.

Sam:

So but yeah, him and Marvin, Yoder, Yoder and uh, oh my, I hope he's not, he doesn't listen because he'd be like, come on, man, you don't remember my name. Oh, I can't think of the other one, but they ran Yoder's. There was a couple Yoder's that ran big time out of Montezuma area, Macon Columbus, down into Valdosta, down into into they got up into Atlanta a little bit and man there for four or five years. They were big. I mean it was crazy Really. Yeah, eli's still, him and his son still run a full-time foam conkling coating business. Marvin's actually building sheds for Premier in Montezuma. Now he wants to get back to farming a little more again. It was a big deal. I don't know. They started about 87, 88 is when they first started getting into it and yeah they. Eli's a little more relaxed now that he's older than he used to be, but man, he used to sell like crazy. It was crazy.

Norman Eicher:

I see, and so I never was personally signed up with Conklin, it was just through my uncle, and what? We had done there. A lot of people have made really good money at it. It's a multi-level marketing thing that I don't care much for.

Sam:

Eli never did that part of it either. None of those guys really did. Ronald Yoder he's still big in Montezuma area with a coating business. Oh man, yeah, there's many times I had to go rent an air compressor and go blow gravel off a roof.

Norman Eicher:

I see.

Sam:

Yeah, and then we got doing metal roofs. Anyway, that's a whole different story. That industry. I have a bunch of friends that are in it, but the majority of the ones that I know stay pretty focused on just the roofing side of it. They're not into all the rest of it, so much. That's wild that you actually did that.

Norman Eicher:

Yeah, we were certified with Conklin. We had done some pretty major jobs there. Again, if you get into that, you're putting yourself out there because, guess what, for the next 10 years, 12 years, whatever, if there is a leak, guess who they call you. They're going to call you If it's three hours away, four hours away, six hours away whatever.

Sam:

You'll fix it.

Norman Eicher:

You're going to go fix it. It was a learning curve. Did I enjoy it? Yeah, would I be good again? Probably not.

Sam:

Probably not Like me hooking up double whites. Nope, no more, let the young guys do it. So then ended up in Tennessee.

Norman Eicher:

From there Yep Ended up moved down here in fall of 2006. I got you Cool, Been down here ever since. Very good Got married there, or were you married in?

Sam:

Illinois.

Norman Eicher:

Married in Illinois, okay, my wife's family there's two of them still in Illinois and her father, and then the rest are in Missouri, Kentucky, kind of scattered around.

Sam:

I got you, sam.

Norman Eicher:

You're going to have to get down here and see me sometime. Oh, yeah, I was planning on it. The boys have been begging to go golfing again, so oh no, they want to go hunting and fishing too.

Sam:

Huh, fish it out of the pond.

Norman Eicher:

Well, no, they probably won't do that. That'd be probably me more than I hear you.

Sam:

No, we're gonna make that happen. Just, man, my back's got me so like I was supposed to go to Oklahoma to the barbecue out there, wasn't able to go to that. I've had two other trips planned that I've had to cancel. It's a struggle to ride for two hours to get up to North Carolina to get our sheds done. But yeah, the plan is to go back up there tomorrow. I'm going to try to get our sheds done. But the other plan is to go back up there tomorrow. I'm going to try to get about six of them out tomorrow. We'll see how it goes. But yeah, it's just I'm doing better. As long as I don't drive every day, it's much better and I'm on some better stuff that I think is starting to help too.

Sam:

So we're getting there slowly, but surely Glad to hear that help too. So we're getting there slowly, but should be glad to hear that. What would you, um, what would you put out to everybody out there, like, where do you see us, where do you see the, the market going? Of course you're in Tennessee, you're like me. You're in an area where it's just seems like it's never going to slow down. We're in huge growth areas. But what? What do you say out there to the people in the shed industry?

Norman Eicher:

I guess in the last year I've been watching um through covid there seem to be a lot of guys getting into the shed industry and I think we're going to see some consolidation among some of those um and I think we're going to see some it slowed down. So that's just personal feeling, kind of my gut feeling of watching In my area. I think we're going to be solid but I think there's going to be some areas, especially in the northeast, maybe more in the Florida area and stuff, that I think we're going to see some pretty major slowdowns. That's just I'm just talking off my hip here. Some pretty major slowdowns. I'm just talking off my hip here. I don't have the numbers, but that's just my gut feeling from watching where I'm at. My recommendation is don't skimp on how you're building your sheds, because quality will long outlast quantity.

Sam:

Yep.

Sam:

I agree Anything out like. You're so diversified it's a little hard to nail this down. Plus, you run on. There's something we didn't talk about, but I'm thinking of how diversified you are and what you're doing. But you've you've got in-house trucking that you use also. I guess you're still doing that.

Norman Eicher:

Yeah, we do all our own trucking.

Sam:

That basically the shed hauling picture part of it, which is mostly where a lot of my listeners come from. Is you feel pretty comfortable with the way you're set up doing that? Um? Trucking seems to be pretty steady right now I do.

Norman Eicher:

Um, I'm, my drivers are busy. I I've been happy with you know, I've not had a struggle finding someone Most times. One of my drivers has been with me for almost 10 years at this point, and then the rest of mine I pretty much can promote from within the company. We'll bring them in, run, they'll haul, lumber, they'll haul whatever else we need, and then if we have an opening, there's usually one of them that'll jump at getting paid. We pay based off of performance, based on deliveries, and so the opportunity to make some extra money doing a good job. I've been very, very happy with that Cool. I've been very, very happy with that cool. Yep, so yeah, it's for us. The, the haul inside just makes sense.

Sam:

Yeah you have dealers. Like you got guys out there like not all your lots are corporate lots, so you have the dealer side of it. You're grinning like a Cheshire cat over there, do you still have? Dealers, or did you get rid of? All of them.

Norman Eicher:

No, we have dealers.

Sam:

I'm just thinking out loud here that I'm comparing you a little bit to Westwood Mike and Arlen. They do all their own hauling in-house, but then they have all their own sales lots too. They don't have dealers. You've still got that.

Norman Eicher:

Apparently we have a mix. Some days I think our own dealers do better and then some days my independents do better. So it's just the dealer side of things can get very interesting, because as soon as they hit a month where they're not selling, it's automatically everybody else's fault, Absolutely, it's just. Can I say it's like babysitting some days it is yep, I've heard that before.

Sam:

It's an adult daycare. Yeah, yep, I've said that about the haulers too. So I guess I mean there's days I need babysitting, I guess.

Norman Eicher:

So it fits all of us sometimes. Yeah, and for us, having our own haulers has been a really good thing. I would have a hard time seeing contracting my hauling out. It simply keeps the communication so much cleaner, tighter.

Sam:

Yeah, I'm very happy with that yep, and the other thing you've got going for you is you're you're actually a little bit of a grease nut, anyway, like you probably more than a little bit yeah, so you, you actually still enjoy, it's not, it's not like it's a burden to have to actually own trucks to have them work.

Norman Eicher:

I love it. That makes a big difference. We do all our own maintenance in-house. We just get done rebuilding. We rebuild our own engines.

Sam:

You totally rebuilt the one truck, not just the engines and stuff.

Norman Eicher:

You do it all we do. You need to come see my 84, Sam.

Sam:

Yeah, I know I need to get it done. I know Last time I was there there was a hood in the paint booth and a cab. I think, yeah, I've got to get up there.

Norman Eicher:

I've got an 84 C10 that I'm rather happy with how it turned out.

Sam:

That's awesome just for the record, the road runs both ways, you know.

Norman Eicher:

I know, but you know, I've got to keep, I've got to keep the office work done so that everything else keeps going oh no, no, I know your people good enough to know better than that.

Norman Eicher:

I was.

Norman Eicher:

I was really hoping that I could get out a little bit more this year than what I have some other years. Last year was really rough on me. It just seemed like we struggled all year to get the right people in the right places, adding the lumber side, growing the metal side as much as we have. It's been a growth thing. This week I'm having my first EOS meeting. We're going to do a full scale implementation of EOS system. I'm hoping that it'll make a big difference on operational side. I got you Cool.

Sam:

Very good, anything else you want to throw in there before we close this out? I?

Sam:

don't think so.

Sam:

Cool, well, I thank you so much. It seems like well, I do. I appreciate everybody that comes on here lately. It seems like it's hard to get people to come on because, um well, I'm my schedule is so whacked right now. Shannon's like, come on, you going to get some more guys in yet, or you know where we're at now. Just put it out there. Anybody that wants to come on would love to have you on, would love to sit down and chat with you. It's not that hard to do. Anybody can do this. Um so, but yeah, I know it sounds repetitive, but I appreciate you coming on talking with us, um, anything like. So people want to get a hold of you. How did they get a hold of you?

Norman Eicher:

um. Call the office here at mountain view, ask to speak to me, I'm, they can transfer you to me yep, yep.

Sam:

Mountain view company I saw it says now when I looked you up on technical.

Norman Eicher:

Technical name is mountain view construction llc, um. I believe we're listed on google as mountain view co yeah, right there.

Sam:

yeah, mountain view. Co is what it shows on there, right off the side of the big road in belvedere, big town of belvedere, where we had the big old shedbash Good place 2019 shedbash.

Sam:

Yep.

Sam:

So anyway, thank you guys for joining us today. Always appreciate having you along for the ride. Uh-oh, what are you looking for back there?

Norman Eicher:

March the 2nd 2019. March the 2nd 2019.

Sam:

Yeah, you got a plaque back there somewhere.

Norman Eicher:

Yeah, that's what I was looking for, yep.

Sam:

So, yep, yeah, you got a plaque back there somewhere. Yeah, that's what I was looking for. So, yep, thank all you guys for being on today. Make sure you always catch up on the newsletter. You can catch us on YouTube, Spotify, iTunes, all the places. We even have a call-in number where you can just call in and listen to it by the phone. Thank you guys once again for being on today. This is Sam Basseter. We'll catch you next time.