Shed Geek Podcast

The Art and Science of Selling Outdoor Structures: Insights from a 14-Year Industry Veteran PART 1

• Shed Geek Podcast • Season 5 • Episode 32

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Passion for an industry can transform a job into a calling. That's exactly what happened to Rami, who describes himself as approaching the "healthy version of obsessive" when it comes to the shed and outdoor structure business. After 14 years immersed in everything from retail sales to manufacturing, he's developed insights that can benefit anyone in the industry.

What starts as a conversation about Rami's journey quickly evolves into a masterclass on the differences between selling traditional wooden sheds versus steel structures. While shed customers might make decisions quickly, steel structure buyers—especially those investing in larger 30x40 or 40x60 buildings—often engage in a more methodical process. They've frequently been planning and saving for these purchases for years. This requires salespeople to demonstrate deeper product knowledge and patience.

The geographical reach of competition creates another fascinating dynamic. While shed dealers typically compete within a 30-50 mile radius, steel structure competition can span 500 miles or more. With similar pricing across competitors, success hinges on expertise and eliminating friction from the buying process rather than simply offering the lowest price.

Perhaps most valuable is Rami's advice on inventory strategy. While having physical buildings on-site creates immediate sales opportunities, the financial burden of extensive inventory has pushed many dealers toward built-to-order models. Thankfully, 3D configurators arrived just in time, allowing customers to visualize custom buildings even without physical inventory present.

For anyone selling sheds or steel structures, Rami's perspective on honest communication resonates deeply. Saying "I don't know, but I'll find out" builds more trust than bluffing, and sometimes saying "no" helps customers overcome analysis by paralysis better than always saying "yes."

Ready to transform your approach to shed and steel structure sales? Listen now to gain insights from someone who's mastered both sides of this specialized industry.

For more information or to know more about the Shed Geek Podcast visit us at our website.

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To suggest show topics or ask questions you want answered email us at info@shedgeek.com.

This episodes Sponsors:
Studio Sponsor: Union Grove Lumber

Digital Shed Builder
Realwork Labs
iFAB LLC
NewFound Solutions
Solar Blaster

Shed Geek:

All right, welcome back to another episode of the Shed Geek podcast on this Thursday afternoon in March, and excited about today's episode, really hoping that we can engage in some high-level conversation that's super beneficial to all you listeners out there that take the time out of your day to enjoy the Shed Geek podcast. We really hope that we're bringing you content that's valuable, useful, helpful, educational and entertaining, if nothing else. So, Rami, do you care to introduce yourself, who you are, and just a little bit about what you do, maybe in the shed industry, so people are a little more familiar with you if they don't know you already?

Rami Al-Chacar:

Yes, sir, my name is Rami. I've been in this shed industry for oh goodness, right at the 14-year mark now. I've done shed sales, and I've also worked like so retail, but I've also worked on the manufacturing side, on the steel side of things. So, but yeah, it's kind of got my sunk my teeth into everything early on and just kind of I know we were talking about it before whatever the healthy version of obsessive is just right under uh, I know we were talking about it before uh, whatever the healthy version of obsessive is, uh, just right under. That is where I am. Just I really enjoy the industry. It's a lot of fun, but uh, but yeah, um, I appreciate you inviting me yeah, glad to have you on here, and kind of how we connected.

Shed Geek:

I mean, I've been, you're in North Carolina, I've been out there so many times. It's going to be coming back out, you know, fairly soon. But one of the things that was kind of exciting is, you know, we host the Shed Sales Professionals page. We were given that page whenever it was at about 500 or so followers. We've moved it up to.

Shed Geek:

I think it's got to maybe 2,500 or so people on there now and what we've tried to do with the help of Gavin Morley he helps kind of moderate the page we tried to get a lot of the stuff kicked off of there. That was people trying to sell sheds on there Because, as you know, people see sheds and they're just like, oh, another place to throw one marketplace without certain rules of the private group. But the purpose of that group just to be clear, and it states it in the in the in the, whenever you sign up to be in there is, you know the description of it is this is a page dedicated to shed sellers, to help shed sellers through shared experiences, mutual conversation. That doesn't mean that it doesn't get a little oh, what's the word I'm looking for? That doesn't mean that it doesn't get a little chippy every now and then or something like that, but we try to keep Creative.

Rami Al-Chacar:

Yeah, yeah, creative, I like that.

Shed Geek:

We try to keep some of that to as small, you know, as small as we can or as healthy as we can. But that's I mean you kind of connected, like I've been doing some content out there recently that is really more thought provoking than it is opinion. It's just like asking questions and you impressed me because, like you went through and you like, answered all 10 of these questions in depth and I really appreciated that because it was like hey, this is somebody who cares enough to really think this through.

Rami Al-Chacar:

So, it's, it's funny. Uh, I did not realize who I was responding to. I was literally. I asked him. I asked a question, or really a set of questions, so I just wrote this dissertation. Yeah, oh it's good.

Shed Geek:

It's good yeah.

Rami Al-Chacar:

So, I was. I was glad that we were able to connect through that, but uh, but yeah it was, there was a lot of uh, uh, there's a lot of learning to do on in every role in this industry. So, it's always fun when you have somebody that's trying to kind of establish themselves and figure some things out, they have questions. And just being able to kind of establish themselves and figure some things out they have questions and just being able to kind of spitball back and forth is I always love it. So, it's always fun to talk shop. My wife doesn't always appreciate it, but uh, but I do I'll tell you what we're.

Shed Geek:

You know, when you're a shed geek yourself I mean 14 years, like you said just this line, shy of obsessive, it just kind of gets in your blood. I believe, Rami, to me, like anything you do, you want to do it with zeal and you want to do it as the best of your ability, so it wouldn't matter. I mean, and I think about that as I kind of think about you know, Simon Sinek's Find your why. You know where he talks about that in his book and he says you know, apple just happened to be making computers. If they were making bicycles, they would have the same philosophy to be the best bicycle maker out there. Right, and I think that's the way we should approach anything career wise.

Shed Geek:

At least my opinion is that that we should. Why would I not want to have access to as many resources as I can and learn as much as I possibly can? Um, so I? I mean, that's kind of the that's a little bit of the nature of the podcast and why it began. I was just so interested in other people, and I was like let's talk. And then, once we talked, I was like hey, let's record this and put it out there to other people.

Rami Al-Chacar:

Let's immortalize it, yeah.

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Rami Al-Chacar:

Yeah, no, we on the East Coast and by the East Coast I mean in Burlington we call it Shed Heads, like we're just Shed Geeks, shed Heads all the same. Yeah, all the same. Yeah, well, the same thing, but, uh, but, yeah, it's again, it's, it's, it's a. It's a fascinating industry and it's always fun to just unpack more because it's just it. There's always something new to learn, there's always something new to explore, there's always a new angle, there's always a new product, there's always something new financing, I mean just anything. And so, I mean as soon as, as soon as, ask my supervisors, uh, who will be listening, by the way? Uh, they, they will all tell you.

Rami Al-Chacar:

But I always have like 500 questions because I mean, and that's, that's the, that's the whole key to this industry is learning to ask as many questions as you can and not just understand the what, but understand the why, because once you answer that why for yourself, then you never have to ask that question again. And that's something I learned. My granddad actually taught me that one. But learning that why really goes a long way, because it's like it's just piecing together your foundation and just as I, as I went, I just I really started asking about, especially, like on the carport side, all those sort of steel structures. Just I, just I wanted to know. And so, I just went through and just hey, why, why, why is the rule this way? Why does this happen? And then it's just kind of accumulated and snowballed, and here we are.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, Sometimes you find you start digging into why and you discover that there's, there's just not a lot of substance sometimes to the why and a lot of the answers to why sometimes ends up being because we've always done it that way.

Rami Al-Chacar:

That is my least favorite answer and I refuse to accept it. Yeah, it's a.

Shed Geek:

It just seems like well, you know just because it's always been done this way doesn't mean it's always been done the right way. It doesn't mean that we don't pay homage, though, to what got us there.

Rami Al-Chacar:

You know that's important too.

Shed Geek:

But tell me a little bit about your journey. You started 14 years ago. It sounds like you've done some work in the steel side, but, you know, give us a little backstory on who Rami is, or how. Did you wake up one day and say that's it, I want to sell sheds.

Rami Al-Chacar:

So I did not grow up saying I was going to be a shed salesman.

Rami Al-Chacar:

But I got a call from a guy from church, and I was living in Georgia at the time. I went down, I went to probably haven't heard of it but Emanuel College in Franklin Springs, Georgia, and I had just graduated and was trying to find my place in the world and just it was not happening. And I got a phone call one day from a guy from church at home so I'm from Burlington and he was starting this shed industry, and I was like I don't know anything about anything, but let's do it. And I remember getting started and one of the first questions I asked is I need a spec sheet. I want to know. I don't know anything about construction, I don't know anything about sheds, I don't know anything about anything. I need a spec sheet. And sure enough they actually had one, which is interesting because not many manufacturers did at the time and it was, I mean, down to the screw. They had stuff and I would go through, and I would study it, and I would ask questions like OK, what's a stud, you know? I literally did not know. And so, I mean I was, you know, low mid-20s at the time, and so I started learning.

Rami Al-Chacar:

And then, about what? Six months, eight months into it, we brought in a manufacturer for steel who's been at Buildings at the time, and they started doing like the carports. Well, uh, something about it clicked and I really started, uh, just studying on that. That was my next thing. And so, um, it got to where I was, they would they'd call me and say, hey, can you, can you train this person? Well, yeah, sure I can, I can train them. Then was another person and then all of a sudden it was hey, do you want to, you know, be the sales manager? And at the time I was a little too green Uh, they will attest to this Like, I've made a lot of mistakes and was not the best at it, but I learned so much in that time frame.

Rami Al-Chacar:

And then, um, then I took about a year break, about five years in, and then after that break, I went and worked for one of the manufacturers. I was a business development manager, so I would go around as a representative for the company and set up new business, new dealers and whatnot, and they would call me and ask me questions. So, again, I was able to learn more and understand the why and then communicate that to my sales team. And at the time I think I had around 80 to 100 individual dealers not individual companies, but physical locations that I had to check in with and somewhere in that neighborhood. It was a ton of fun. I learned a lot.

Rami Al-Chacar:

It was an absolutely great company. It had good benefits I mean the whole nine yards but after a while that what do they call it? Windshield time Is that what it's called? I was done so I stepped down from that and a couple of months later I transitioned back over to the retail side same company, hometown Sheds, and I've been there since about. I've been back there since 2021. So, with this company collectively it's been nine years.

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Rami Al-Chacar:

So yeah, so I've done a lot of training, I've done a lot of learning and a lot of questions and just and also a lot of sales. So it's, it's a, it's a blast, for sure.

Shed Geek:

The travel time definitely is something I can relate to. It is it's fun, it's nice and I love the independence and love being able to see new places, meet new people, all of that. Since our grandbaby came along, we have slowed down a little bit but we're ramping up for this year, getting ready going to try to hit some places that are a little bit. But we're ramping up for this year, getting ready going to try to hit some places that are a little bit what I would consider nontraditional places that come to mind whenever I think of sheds. You know, Minnesota, North Dakota, south Dakota there might be more presence there than I recognize but I just assume, based on some of the rural areas and the big spaces there, based on some of the rural areas and the big spaces there, that. But we want to get around to meet as many people if they have product services or if they sell products, manufacture, haul, build whatever, whatever it is, sell whatever it is they do in those areas.

Shed Geek:

We're putting a kind of kind of a casting call out there that if we can stop by and see you and meet you, we'd love to do an interview with you. That'd be great. But moving on, you know you're, you're definitely in that. You know, um the state that is as much known for steel structures as just about anything, and I don't know if you know this, but this, this, this is, uh Thursday. So, on Monday, the third, we just launched, uh, the steel kings podcast hosted by Shed Geek. So, we actually have some guys out of out of Ohio who are?

Shed Geek:

bringing you content every Monday morning, or, yeah, every Monday morning, just specific to the steel industry and kind of how those overlap and your story and mine kind of are similar in that that like we've worked with or in or around the steel industry some and also in the shed industry and they're almost like um, almost like uh, cousins, if you yeah they're, they're very complimentary, um, so fun fact.

Rami Al-Chacar:

Um, I would not set up a new dealer when I was doing working on the manufacturing side unless they sold jets, because I it. It's a commitment I and I needed. I needed people that were building minded. I don't mind if they sell all the products, obviously that was not an issue. What I minded was that they're not going to be distracted trying to sell a house or trying to sell a car, where it's like they're already distracted.

Rami Al-Chacar:

And then here it is where they're trying. I've got a customer that needs help. I need them to be able to have that attention that they need, and so they're already outdoor product minded. They already have rent to own set up, they already have financing set up, they already have that whole venue established. All we need to do is put up a couple demos and they're cruising. Uh. So, uh, I always recommend always uh, if you're selling sheds, sell carports, like always, because you will, I promise you will you will be selling double whatever you made if you were just focusing on sheds and it's not always just a volume like a sales volume thing. You're looking at doubling commissions as well, because you're selling two types. You're able to meet two different customers' needs instead of one, and it goes a long way.

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Shed Geek:

What have you found to be like the biggest differences in the shed industry and sort of that steel structure world? What are the things that stick out to you? I've got a few things that I feel like has kind of been just chipping at me the last couple of months.

Rami Al-Chacar:

Yeah, so sheds are. There's a faster turnaround with shed customers. So, your customer comes in, you can have, they can make up their mind on a shed in one day With a carport same thing, same thing. Where it starts differentiating is when they're trying to do those 30 by 40s and the 40 by 60s and the big stuff. Where they've been, they're paying cash, they've been saving up for it. I had a lady a couple weeks ago pulling out of her 401k like she'd been waiting for this moment, and so it's a process and so there's a little bit more patience involved.

Rami Al-Chacar:

With the steel structures. There's a lot more attention to detail because every, every steel structure company has a slightly different set of engineering drawings. Interestingly, they usually have the same engineer I haven't understood that one but they have different rules for where you can connect to and the spacing for things and things like that. So there's a lot more detail and a lot more scope, and so it takes a little bit longer sometimes for them to actually pull a trigger on it. There's also a lot more competition because you're not limited to a 30 mile radius or a 50 mile radius or even a hundred mile radius. You're talking about, honestly, 500 miles, sometimes radius, and it's the same price and it's, or basically, the same price.

Rami Al-Chacar:

So your competitor in Kentucky is the same price as your competitor in inucky, is the same price as your competitor in, and you know, right up the street and it's yours, it's the same price as you. So it's coming down to your expertise and it's coming down to your ability to eliminate friction that is, keeping your customer from placing that order. Um, and and so it it it comes down to not just price point, although that is important, um, it's coming down to, uh, your knowledge, your ability to get information they need and to provide a product on a time, in a timely fashion, whereas with a shed it's oh yeah, we have sheds and this is what we can do, and you have, you know, in some cases, several competitors, but they all have like their little niche that they're kind of trying to focus on, and so everybody kind of keeps to themselves is not like that with steel structures. So it's a big, big difference.

Shed Geek:

I've heard it said like the salesperson makes all the difference in the world difference. I've heard it said like the salesperson makes all the difference in the world. You can take a A-plus salesperson in a C-minus location and they'll outsell a A-plus location as a C-minus salesperson Because you can overcome the differences right with good sales process, good customer service and really a dedication to your profession is what I would call it. And you know, I think about I don't know people who have discussed things. You know about how sales professions almost kind of maybe not look down upon, but I mean there are there have been like a lot of shysters in the past and things like that. You know that people feel like they've just been kind of taken advantage of through the sales process because things were disclaimed.

Rami Al-Chacar:

Yes, there is a lot of stealing that goes on in this industry and it frustrates me to no end because it brands all of us with this bad impression and you'll have actually some customers wanting to shop local because they would rather pay maybe just a little bit more than risk paying a lot less sometimes and not know the company they're actually purchasing the building from, not knowing the reputation of that company, hoping they get all the screws put in right, the reputation of that company, you know, hoping they get all the screws put in Right. I mean it's just not saying that online industry, the online side of the industry, is problematic all the time. But people are people are kind of tired of taking those risks. So, being upfront, being honest and being knowledgeable on your product, all checking all those boxes, it goes a really long way in this industry.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, it's been so unusual and I'll tell you what one of the things that I've found the differences in the industries that kind of come to mind immediately for me is just the fact that 100% of steel buildings are built on site. They're new construction builds built on site. You know this isn't an inventory piece that you can move, discount or sell. They're basically sold off of a display model and the more I think we focus on that and look at how that affects the shed industry. That's why I've been asking some of these questions right on the Shed Sales Professionals page. So if you're a shed entrepreneur, a shed sales professional, hauler, dealer, somebody who's involved in it, why not join the page? And, by the way, yes, if you do not list that you are in the shed industry, we do not allow you in, because we try to protect the page and limit it as best we can for that reason. So that's why we ask those questions in the beginning, not to be bothersome but to keep this group as a beneficial group to each other and we don't need a whole bunch of outside influence coming in of people who are not involved in any way, shape or form in the industry spamming the page. So Shed Sales Prof, sales professionals is the private facebook group. Go check it out, uh, ask to join. We'll be happy to let you in if you are in the shed industry.

Shed Geek:

But, um, the reason I've been asking some of these questions is because I've noticed that, Rami, that, like you know, if you take a look at some models like uh I asked the question, did a poll, uh, recently you know how many of your sheds are sold that are new construction builds or to be built or whatever it is the terminology you use, versus an inventory piece that sits on the lot. I've been really surprised at some of the data that we've been able to find to support that so many people are selling new buildings and it's like makes me wonder. And it's like makes me wonder always. I always love to know that, because it's a, it's a good challenge to sales people who have inventory and they say I've got to have triple, double, quadruple the inventory to be effective. Yeah, it just makes me wonder. Right, it presents a good argument and alternative point of view. What, what's your experience?

Rami Al-Chacar:

there. So, there are different approaches to it. It is great having inventory because someone can come in and say I want that one, and let's go my personal experience with Facebook Marketplace. Now there are people that say their experience is different, so I'll clarify there. But my experience is when I post something on Facebook Marketplace, it could be a stock photo and clearly a stock photo, and someone will still say I want this one right now and it's just like you know.

Rami Al-Chacar:

Well, you gotta go through the whole spill of well we can get it in, you know, two to four weeks or four to six, whatever it is, and you know. And so this is the whole thing, and they're needing something yesterday, to which I kind of feel like saying, if you needed it yesterday, you should have bought it two weeks ago. But again, people will be people and customers will be customers.

Shed Geek:

People are going to people is the way I heard somebody say People are going to people, they will.

Rami Al-Chacar:

They are creatures of habit too. So, uh, in saying that there are a lot of benefits to having uh inventory, uh, on the flip side of things, it alleviates pressure from your manufacturers when they're not having to stock every building with 50 buildings which is used to be the model and you take, I mean as a retailer sometimes people don't do this math, but if you're on consignment, for example, I mean 50 times you know if your average building is $6,000, I mean that's a lot of inventory and times that by. You know you have dealers and it's just like you know who has this kind of money in this economy anymore. So we had, we, as in retailers and manufacturers, had to kind of reinvent the wheel a little bit. So, because inventory is technically going to be down Now, the flip side of that is, you know, now there's more opportunity for more customization. Let's have fun with it and so, and then insert Idea Room stage right kind of thing where you know we can build it right here on the screen, we can do it together. Here's exactly what it's going to look like, or exactly what it should look like if Idea Room would fix the color schemes look like, or exactly what it should look like if idea room would fix the color schemes, uh, but uh, but no, it's uh, it that idea room in particular, uh, which is, you know, the shed builder, um, uh, really changed the dynamics of both shed, uh, shed building and carport, especially on the carport side, but also on the shed side, uh, to the point where it was almost timed perfectly, because I think Idea Room started doing their thing back in like 2018, 19, somewhere in that neighborhood, and then the economy kind of jumped everything up, so we had the ability to show a customer exactly what they're looking for at the same time, where that manufacturers couldn't get out consignment inventory anymore, and so it was really good timing on our part.

Rami Al-Chacar:

But, either way, if you're stuck in a situation where you can't get inventory, use it to your advantage. If you can get inventory, great, you know, you know, you know what the advantage is. If you can't, then find a way to um, uh, to use it to your benefit. Oh, we're fully customizable. You know, everything is, you know, uh, you know, spec'd out the way, exactly how you want it, uh and it and just. You can do that.

Rami Al-Chacar:

And if you're, if you're struggling with the inventory side of things and you have a big lot, for example. That's another reason to get carports back to that where you know you can get a couple of demos out there and look full again. Now they're not going to sit up, you know. Set you up with you up with five, six, seven demos necessarily, but even two or three sometimes, or four really. I mean they take up good space, they look good, they look clean, you make some money off of it and your customers are attracted to. Yet another thing goes a long way and it really offsets your again your problem with some of your inventory struggles.

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Shed Geek:

For people to be able to see you know, when you're trying to write things down or show them something or explain it, it just makes such a difference.

Shed Geek:

Even our marketing segment that we promote at Shed Geek, we have found it to be so dynamic for our customers to have the utilization of a 3D configurator, because there's just so much that you can do with it, especially as we move into a retail world where, oh gosh, like I mean, it's not even just 3D configurators anymore, it's AI, right, it's there's. There's going to be so many different changes coming up in the industry over the next several years and you're going to see that technology and some are going to struggle and some are going to thrive, and you know it's just a matter of like making sure to get your message out there building a good product, releasing it, providing good customer service and it's the same thing that we all have to do. You know, if you own a business. I had a question for you and I wanted to maybe try to get into some of the questions that we we me and you had some conversation about on there.

Rami Al-Chacar:

But I got one question before I forget that I wrote down and I wanted to ask, as a 14 year veteran, what is your best piece of advice for a shed dealer, maybe even a new shed dealer? Oh, um, know the product. Like the first thing I said when I was kind of explaining some things and that know your product and know your competitor's product. Honestly, know your competitor. You never know when.

Rami Al-Chacar:

That one random piece of information, even if you have the exact same brand, that one random piece of information that you, that, that you're, even if you have the exact same brand, even if you'd like, as your competitor, even if you have the exact same brand, it's the exact same buildings. If you know your product and you present your product, it you're going to get that sale because you're, uh, you're, you're sounding more knowledgeable and you're and you're providing them with information. The customer may not even recognize that it's the same exact shed or steel building or whatever, but because you talk about your three-quarter inch flooring or your four by six runners or whatever it is that you're doing, just mentioning those things, uh, goes a mile with these customers. Um, so, just knowing the product backwards and forwards, upside downs and just it. You can't beat it and it's. It is an invaluable piece um in in any industry, but especially this one.

Shed Geek:

So, I got to know people. Honestly, Rami, I would go and sit down with the competitors and try and understand them and try and understand their product and be friendly towards them and also do my best to know what sets me apart. Why am I different? What is the reason? Someone might you know, I'm giving a sales presentation tomorrow in Indiana and you know that's one of the things that I've been asked to speak on is like why would a customer purchase from the customer's perspective, why would they purchase one of our storage buildings versus anybody else's? I mean, there's so many available, but what would set us apart? Why would be different? Why would the customer choose us? So, I've really been digging into this on the sales presentation, I can't wait to speak at their, their dealer event. Yeah and uh, it's just exciting, right, it's. It's exciting because I took I took that as a literal challenge for me as I sold sheds anyway, it was like how do I know people know processes, what you know?

Shed Geek:

Where can I learn from others? I mean, I've not just, you know done this so that I can be a megaphone to tell people how or why to do things. I've, I've been a great listener, right. Podcasting seems seems to be a talker, but it's. It's because I've listened so much. I've really been a student of other people. I was taught that if you want to know how the CEO got to where he is, you take him to lunch Instead of being like, well, I'll never make it there, or he got an unfair, or I was always like. Go to them and be like success leaves clues. You know that's what Gary Vaynerchuk says. You know success leaves clues, so I think that they appreciate it. You go and take them to lunch and say, hey, I want to be better, I want to learn more, I want to do more and you've already got the keys to the success. So how can you help me get there? And I think that goes a long way if you'll just get your ego out of your own way.

Rami Al-Chacar:

It does.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, so great, great advice, product knowledge. I can remember Andrew Woods. I've talked about him several times on the podcast. God rest his soul. He was an LP rep and the company that we used you know so Gens4 used LP as a product and I never will forget him showing up his first two weeks on the job and I was so already knowledgeable about certain things that I was like I can't. I couldn't wait for you to get here. I got all kinds of questions to ask you and I asked that dude, you know a million questions and he wrote down to his credit. He wrote down every one of them and he wrote down to his credit. He wrote down every one of them and he said I don't know the answer now, but I'll get back to you on that, and he did.

Shed Geek:

He followed up with me on every bit of it.

Rami Al-Chacar:

And that's kind of another point. To transition, not transition, but to slingshot from that from. My other one was if you don't know, then don't guess.

Shed Geek:

Yes, absolutely.

Rami Al-Chacar:

Yeah, guessing is the worst thing. One thing I'd like to sleep, you know, is I don't like to sleep as in all the time, but like when I'm doing this, when I'm asleep, I need to sleep, and I don't like stressing about work. So, if I've promised something and I've over promised something, I'm going to be stressed out all the time. So, rather than guessing, I either have studied to where I already know the answer and I'm confident about it, or I say I don't know. And there is something just beautiful about being able to say that, and it's also building a little bit of a rapport with your customer as well in certain scenarios, because they don't think you're. You're the yes man you're not a robot.

Rami Al-Chacar:

You know what I mean.

Shed Geek:

Like you're not a robot who just always has the answer. I was. You know I have a little bit different philosophy. I had a boss one time that said their philosophy and it works for them and that's great and I encourage them using you know what they feel like it's beneficial for them.

Shed Geek:

But they said the answer is always yes until the answer is no and I was like, ooh, I don't know if that sits well with me, you know what I mean, like just tell them yes because you don't want to create any problems, controversy, you don't want to stand for nothing, you don't want to disrupt the sale or anything. You just say yes until you have to tell them no. And I've kind of taken a little different approach. I don't, I don't, I'm not chastising that approach. It's their approach, it's their prerogative, you know.

Shed Geek:

But for me I've always been like, I don't know, I'm a maybe a little bit more of a uh, almost, almost a cautious, almost a no until it's a yes, to be honest with you.

Shed Geek:

And yeah, I have normalized in my life and encouraged others to, whenever you're caught with a question that you feel obligated to answer and you don't know the answer or don't feel confident, that it is not a negative thing to say. You know, I'm not sure about that, but can I get back with you on that? I've normalized that in my life, even outside the shed industry, whenever someone asks me something, I used to feel like I had to have an opinion, or else I didn't look educated on it, or I looked. Well, I'd lose this opportunity because, you know, I don't seem like I'm in the, in the know, but I, but I have normalized saying not only no to particular opportunities sometimes, but I've also normalized just saying I don't know the best answer there, but I know someone who might be able to. Can I get back with you on that? And people accept that they're okay with that.

Rami Al-Chacar:

They do, and you will be surprised at how well no is received, because sometimes, sometimes they don't, sometimes they just need to eliminate an option that I just have anchored to it's. Customers suffer from paralysis, from analysis, where they just have so many options that they just they vapor lock, and so introducing a no to the equation starts neutralizing some of those fears or some of those concerns or some of the anxiety that they have. So, no is very, very powerful in a sales industry. Now, it can be used for good or bad, so don't mishear that, but it is a very, very useful tool and it can save you a lot of time. For example, if you're pretty sure that the steel structure company isn't going to put a lean to on the side of someone's house, like as in you know, but you're like, well, let me let me check.

Rami Al-Chacar:

Now you're. You already know what the answer is going to be. You already know that there's no one, but now you're wasting 20 or 30 minutes of your life which is money, and it's in a commission world trying to find maybe somebody where you could have just gone to the next thing with this customer just by saying no.

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Shed Geek:

Great point, man. I love the conversation. You're such an easy conversationalist too, and I know you're going to find this hard to imagine that we've been speaking for 40 minutes already. That's what I tell people on the industry. I tell people all the time. You'd be surprised at how harmless this is.

Shed Geek:

Just hop on here and do a podcast for those who are for those who would have really good stories, offer really good advice but are just a little bit timid. It's always recorded. It's you know, it's never, it's never live, so we can edit anything out. But it's very simple, just to get on here and have a conversation and it's very beneficial. Especially, I wish I could share with you guys all the text, emails or messages that we've gotten. That said, I really enjoyed that episode, or I want to reach out to that person, or you know, that person probably felt like they didn't have much to offer and it ended up being like the most listened to podcast ever, you know, and they're like well, I didn't really think I had that much and all of a sudden they are just dynamic in terms of content.

Shed Geek:

Thank you for listening to part one of a two-part series. Be sure to tune in next week for more engaging conversation here at the Shed Geek podcast.