Shed Geek Podcast

Beyond Sheds: The Heartfelt Stories that Shape Our Industry PART 1

• Shed Geek Podcast • Season 5 • Episode 16

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Discover the heart of the shed industry in this compassionate and insightful episode that combines personal narratives, innovative financing discussions, and community support. Join us as we speak with Vance Wright, a veteran in the shed business, who shares both his professional journey and the deeply personal experiences shaping our conversations today. 

As we delve into Vance's beginnings in the industry, we also explore the rise of rent-to-own financing and how it’s transforming buying dynamics. You'll gain intriguing insights into how financing options are being shaped by consumer needs and market demands, as well as candid discussions about the challenges of navigating health crises within close-knit communities. 

This episode highlights the importance of supporting each other through life’s ups and downs while remaining dedicated to ethical practices in our business dealings. Join us as we reflect on the future landscape of the shed industry and how we can elevate it together. Don’t miss out—subscribe, share, and engage with us on this journey of growth and shared values!

For more information or to know more about the Shed Geek Podcast visit us at our website.

Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube at the handle @shedgeekpodcast.

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To suggest show topics or ask questions you want answered email us at info@shedgeek.com.

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Shed Geek:

Okay, welcome back to another episode of the Shed Geek podcast. And on this cold day, as we were just saying, at least I know it's cold here in Illinois, Vance, I would imagine that it's cold in Oklahoma too, but you know what? Maybe there's some warm hearts around the country today. I don't know. We'll get into some of that discussion. Why don't you do me a favor? Some folks may know you, but for those who don't, do you just care to introduce yourself, your company and a little bit about who you are and what you guys do?

Vance Wright:

Yes, hello out there. I'm Vance Wright and I've been involved with a little shed company called Better Barns since about 2002. We not only build sheds. We also put up a lot of metal buildings and, as many other folks in the shed industry, we also sell the little carports, those kinds of things. So that's kind of who I am.

Shed Geek:

So, a lot of folks may know your partner in crime, or at least one of them. I don't know exactly the makeup of the company, but Tyler, who has been on a couple different episodes of the Shed Geek podcast and was sort of a long-term columnist there in Shed Builder Magazine, now Shed Business Journal, and kind of didn't coin the phrase but certainly used the phrase that he had known for years a rising tide lifts all boats. That was kind of a bit of inspiration for me early on in our approach to the shed industry through the, through the podcast, trying to better the industry as a whole and not just individually. This, this focus that we were sort of better together.

Vance Wright:

Yes, yes, Tyler and I have worked together building sheds since before. He was a part of my family. So, in the early days I was building sheds and selling sheds and delivering sheds A little bit of support from my father on the delivery side. And then Tyler came to work for me still in high school, In fact, at 17 years old. So, a lot of history together. Maybe today would help some of you folks that are able to see the video content on this put a face with the name on some of Tyler's stories. So yeah, a lot of interesting times there.

Shed Geek:

A lot of interesting stories too. I've read his columns, you know, regularly and bought his book and yeah, it's always nice whenever he would talk about Vance. But I got a chance to meet you at the Oklahoma barbecue, the event that they have out there each year, and it was kind of nice to put a face with the name. So, um, and then you know the makeup to some extent of the company I do. I believe, if I understand correctly, Tyler is married to your sister. Is that correct? You guys would be brothers in law. That's correct, and I just want to call attention to that before we get too deep in that conversation and your sister and Tyler's bride is kind of going through a bit of a hard time, to say the least. I don't want to expand on that, it's a sort of a personal matter. I just what he puts out socially. You know, I feel like I can kind of touch on that. But she's had. Do I understand right that she had a tumor or something along those lines on her brain, if I understand correctly?

Vance Wright:

Yes, yes, she had a form of brain cancer, if you will.

Shed Geek:

And she's doing better now?

Vance Wright:

I believe yes, she's currently in about the middle of a six-week stint of radiation treatments five days a week. So yeah, she's doing much better, had a surgery and they removed the tumor, doing much better, had a surgery and they removed the tumor and, uh, so seemed to be responding to the chemo and radiation well, exceptionally well in fact, in terms of that's not affecting her, you know, like it does some folks with the sickness and such. We feel some of those are probably God things and we're grateful for that. But brain cancer is not fun. I told Tyler in a conversation a few weeks ago early on. He just kept calling it a brain tumor and Tyler and I are very close personally, so I told Tyler it's a lot easier to say brain tumor than cancer, isn't it? That's really. You know what it is yeah, it's.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, that's a powerful statement. We didn't go through near what you guys are going through, but we did go through six rounds of chemo as well with my wife with breast cancer and she got the brain fog and definitely got a lot of the sickness and it's just, it's, it's almost when we go back to the doctor, it's, it's I believe, in PTSD because I could almost just see it on my wife's face and her reaction to the smells, the environment, the people and she's you know we're lucky she's, you know she's survived and cancer free now and has been for quite some time. But been having a lot of interesting conversations lately with people you know talking about the things like this you know, here lately, between medicines, vaccinations, things in our food and these. These conversations just, uh, they, just they. They stay in my mind in that, in that mess up here in my head where I try to sit and figure out the world's problems like everybody else, right, and I remember really leaning into God on this and I got to tell you my wife was a trooper buddy.

Shed Geek:

Women are much stronger than men. I continue to make the joke that I heard made several years. It says why would women constantly fight for equality several years. It says why would women constantly fight for equality? Uh, they, they're. They're definitely taking a step down if they want to be equal to men and, in my opinion, uh wonderful place you know they do.

Shed Geek:

My wife just seemed, she seemed to just go through it better than I did. She put on a really good face, if not, but she's just excellent and it's pretty amazing, pretty amazing. Yeah, just watching her, I just want you to know that your sister, Tyler Deneau, his wife, is in our thoughts and our prayers. I don't know her personally we possibly have met when we were out there and introduced to Tyler in Oklahoma or yourself, but we try to use the show for what it is and although this it'll be a while for this one goes out, we would just call on the listeners to stop where they are today and say a prayer and keep them in your thoughts. And yeah, I just really wanted to address the sensitivity of that because, while we don't understand it completely, we do understand it to some extent, but anyone can be a prayer warrior today, for healing and peace.

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Shed Geek:

What I want to know is how you got started in the shed industry. Did you fall into this? Are you a second- generation builder? What was the?

Vance Wright:

appeal that kind of made you want to build sheds Well like so many of us, it was a family connection there to begin with. So currently we're in Oklahoma I think we've said that just to be clear. But prior to that we lived in New Mexico, a place called Hobbs, and my father was in the construction and roofing business. So done an immense amount of insurance, repair work, those kinds of things and the way the shed deal started. We had another family member in another state who had built sheds for one of the lumber yard owners, as at least here in the Midwest many, many towns had that. You know, the lumber company would build sheds out of their call stuff and so he had moved to the state and was working for my dad at the time and really it was kind of just an off day. We'd build a shed out of leftover material. You know you have enough two-by-fours left over from a remodel and you build a 10-by-16 shed. When the weather's bad You're not working. So that's kind of the way that started. And then I was introduced to it at a very young age. I don't even know when I first started working. It must have been 10 or 11 years old probably. I built my first shed by myself when I was 12. I can distinctly remember that little eight by 12 lofted barn. I'm sure many of you can relate to that little red and white guy. So that's kind of how I got to start.

Vance Wright:

I've loved the industry ever since. I love seeing the joy it brings to customers. I love seeing the. Sorry, I don't remember the gentleman's first name, but he worked for Atlas Buildings down in Northeast Texas. He had been a sales rep for them for many years. I don't remember the gentleman's first name, but he worked for Atlas Buildings down in northeast Texas. He had been a sales rep for them for many years. He told me something I've never forgotten about the industry. He said I love the variety or the wide spectrum that the shed customers bring to me each day. He said you know, this morning I may be selling a half dozen 12 by 32 buildings to someone who owns a ranch for bunkhouses, and this afternoon I may be selling a 10 by 16 dream home to someone else. So that's interesting I thought about that a lot of times how wide the gamut is for the customer base.

Shed Geek:

It is certainly an interesting take on it. I've never really heard it put into those terms. There's someone I want to mention just out of curiosity. Can't be too many people in Hobbs in New Mexico building sheds for years, but I can only assume that this gentleman did, and I really wanted to see Hobbs when I drove through New Mexico on our way back uh last year and um plan to make a trip back out at uh at some point. Um, but there's a fellow named Jeff Sage. I don't know if that rings a bell. By any stretch of the imagination, he's my uncle.

Vance Wright:

Jeff is your uncle. Okay, all roads lead to Rome. Sounds like that's right, that's right. Respect. So that's who taught me to build sheds.

Shed Geek:

I couldn't be happier to know that, because Jeff and I'm going to call him today, just because I interviewed you, I'm going to give him a call. Jeff sort of knows what I do, but not exactly. But here's what I do know about Jeff. He is definitely one of the early influential people in my shed world. Now, you know, I had been in the shed industry long before got out, did some ministry work and faith-based drug addiction and alcohol recovery, as some of you may know.

Shed Geek:

But Jeff was hauling for a company that we were selling for and we just hit it off so well, so well. He's so pleasant, very likable, and he was a bit of a character to me, I don't know. So, I've used Jeff as inspiration, even for some of my commercials early on and things like that for the podcast. But Jeff has and I'm going to embarrass myself, maybe him and you and others along with this, but Jeff definitely has this. What I used to like to laugh and joke about was almost this old timey. When you show up here, I'll embarrass myself. I would always tease, and I would always say if Jeff, if I call him on the phone, this is what I'm going to hear Spinning you on dog.

Vance Wright:

What are?

Shed Geek:

you doing? What are you doing? Calling me on a Wednesday and it doesn't matter the day, he would say anything. And I'm telling you he's infectious, his personality is, and I just enjoyed being around him and he was an excellent hauler. He went on to build.

Shed Geek:

I went and saw him in Oklahoma or Arkansas when he was down there for a while and you talk about a guy who's really been through it. I know he lost his wife, and I was there in a couple of those conversations and you know I just I've always thought so much of him and he used to tell me about this magical place called Hobbs, New Mexico, where he built sheds for 25 years. But I've always just known him from my little piece of the world. But I want to say publicly I really enjoy and I'm embarrassed I haven't called him in so long and talked to him. I almost ought to call him on the podcast one day and just tell him he's on it just so y'all can get a kick out of him. But I want to say really, really enjoy the guy. So, what a mentor for you to grow.

Vance Wright:

Grow up under love, Jeff great guy, yeah, going down just a little different path. Don't know how far you'd want to go down this path, but one thing jeff always told me you know the whole building side is a lot different than where I function today, but he always told me when we were building sheds he said if you had a hundred carpenters in this room, there would be a hundred and one, at least a hundred and one ways of doing this and most of them are going to be good. That's pretty good.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, he has. He's like you know. It's funny because you know you hear the name Sage and that's kind of synonymous with knowledge and understanding in itself. And jeff has just always sort of been one of those guys to me that when, when he talks, I listen and uh, he's he. Just to me he's, he's always. He will be the first, I'm sure, to tell you he's imperfect, but to me he's always been this. I don don't know, I miss him already. I'm going to call him today, just because we got a chance to interview you and you're his nephew and protege.

Vance Wright:

That little saying that he shared with me has helped me understand through the years that your way is not the only way.

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Shed Geek:

I don't remember what I was talking about the other day, and I'll be vulnerable here a little bit. I want to say we were talking about finance or rent to own or something, and I don't want to get anybody's feathers, you know, like you know in a tizzy or whatever. But you know I think I said something, cause I saw it. I saw it on a meme on Facebook the other day and it said, um, there's some churches and I I've been talking a little bit about recently, uh, some vulnerabilities of my own, about, you know, the struggles in the church or, uh, with people in the church, so much you know. And so, it's always God's children, it's never God himself I struggle with. But I said, you know I saw one that said, hey, it's okay if you started going to another church. You don't have to completely dismiss us. We're not in gangs, and I would make the argument that it's with the shed industry. If you're using another company, we don't have to not like you. Maybe, Vance, maybe you guys switch to another lumber company or another metal supplier or whatever it is. You know we don't have to hate each other. We're not in gangs and I just like that. You know we don't have to hate each other. We're not in gangs and I just like that. I feel like that kind of echoes the sentiments of, like my personal feelings about how business should be done in today's world. But it is a struggle. It is a struggle because these are ways to make a living and those become very difficult conversations. But you and Jeff are 100% right. You know there's more than one way to skin a cat, as they say.

Shed Geek:

So, um, you know, appreciate, appreciate that conversation, for sure, and I would have not guessed we'd be talking about jeff today, but that's awesome. I also want to stop. Yeah, I'll give a quick shout out because, look, I, I, I wore an innovations manufacturing and um uh shirt the other day and they sent me a hoodie and I'll tell you what. I didn't know. It was that simple to get a hoodie and I appreciate it from those guys, cause it's six degrees here in Illinois right now. But I want to give shout out to WEH supply, um, and my guys over there in Pennsylvania uh, B ill and um, um, his family, Carly, and just the whole group, um, I noticed it just now paying attention, and I want to give them a quick shout out during the podcast Um, listen, um, uh.

Shed Geek:

The shed industry is a weird creature. Where do you think the state of the industry is right now, Vance? What would your opinion be versus when you got in years ago, to now a much more seasoned veteran? They don't just like to hear stories about Jeff and where things have come and wholesome entertainment, but they also get value from the conversations, or we try to bring at least valuable content, and I'm just curious what your thoughts are on where it sets right now. What's your grand view of it?

Vance Wright:

grand view of it. Well, frankly, our current business it relies less on sheds than it used to. So, again, I said, we do a lot of steel buildings, a lot of construction even, and have our own fleet of dirt equipment. So, I don't apply myself 100% to just the shed industry anymore. But one thing I find very interesting is the maturity of the financing options within the industry, At least to some degree. The rent to own the last few years has driven the industry in my view, industry in my view, and we do our own rent-to-own in-house. In terms of profit margins and those kinds of things, the rent-to-own is very attractive and it's very interesting to me to see that. Well, I told a banker last week that I was visiting with it looks to me like the RTO companies have matured to a place they are doing their own financing, which is, honestly, from my view, what the whole concept of RTO was birthed from was a need for financing for buildings, so I find that to be a very interesting development.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, for sure, I think. If you're selling sheds, I think typically I think you start with cash is king. Would you agree from a you know? Because the question is, what level of involvement as a shed salesperson do you play in the business, financial development of somebody's personal expenses? In other words, I was the world's worst, right.

Shed Geek:

I was not always the best salesperson because I thought I could spend their money better than they could spend their money, or you, at least, would occasionally identify what you felt like was a young couple might not be making the best financial decision, and for me that was very imperative because my family did those things right. And then me and my wife went down that road for quite some time to where we got stuck in debt and different things. And you begin I spent a small- time selling insurance and being a financial planner, so there's something, at least a little bit in my bones that kind of told me hey, I want to watch out for people as well too, and that's very conflicting. Whenever you're attempting to sell somebody something that you might not purchase, that might be a decision that you might not make. And I think to myself, you're 100% right. I would almost make the argument that rent-to-own has sort of ruled the roost, if you will, to some extent in the development of the shed industry over the past 10 years. The development of the shed industry over the past 10 years, perhaps as much so that we have 50% of all sales that are being made today are made because of the addition of rent-to-own, whereas traditional finance maybe just hasn't quite hit the industry quite as hard.

Shed Geek:

And personally, even as a rent-to-own provider, I'd love to see finance be more competitive in the space, because I think that if you want to see your customer win, then you want to see them win, even if it means you have to change your business model at times to match what the customer needs, and I love to see. So, what are you? What are your thoughts? Are you, are you, are you excited to see the competitiveness of the rent owned industry? Uh, does it burden you, does it sadden you? Are you excited to see the financing options come a little bit more to the table? Do we need more of that? What's your overall thoughts on it?

Vance Wright:

My overall thoughts on it. I don't know how it's going to affect the industry. A few things I have noticed is, you know, just in general, at least in our area, the expectation of the cash buyer is they expect to find a repo and a deal. So, it has somewhat at least somewhat held the dampened retail pricing for your cash buyers. So essentially what's happening, what I see happening, is your RTO buyers end up subsidizing your cash buyers in terms of profit margins internally.

Vance Wright:

As you know, as a rent-to-own provider, many of the rent-to-own providers actually pay a premium. The manufacturer for that contract or that building, which is really nothing more than the payment buyer, is subsidizing the cash buyer in the long, in the big picture. So, I think it's very interesting how repressive it has been to retail pricing and a very interesting dynamic to me personally. I don't know. I don't know if, if more of the profit margins end up shifting back to the manufacturing side with the advent of financing or just what happens. But what you pointed out is I've struggled with the very same thing. I want to serve you with excellence and transparency, and I don't think rent-to-own is a great option for many, many, many, many people.

Shed Geek:

There's definitely there's still a mix, I think many people, there's definitely a there's still a mix, I think, of uh, of, of uh of opinions. You know my, my initial. I remember my initial introduction to RTO and my initial introduction to it. I feel like I responded the way most people do and I was not the biggest fan. Was it predatory? Of course not. I didn't think it was predatory because I didn't think that. You know they were attempting to. You know it wasn't like SNL, you know scandal in the 80s, where you know people have to have a home to live in which you could make the argument. You know sheds are people's homes in a lot of cases, even though the contracts on the rent-to-own clearly state that you can't live in it. I think one of the biggest problems there is depending on who your partner is.

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Shed Geek:

I got a chance to speak at a dealer event the other day and through a marketing presentation, and I talked about the commitment from the company to the dealer, the consignment dealer specifically. They have 70 or 80 dealers, and I asked the question what is your commitment to your company, to your provider? Because it seems like with the consignment and I'm not saying all I'm saying this is probably just a small sample, but there's enough to address is that, arguably, the manufacturers who want to grow and one of the ways they grow is through a dealer network. They get the funding and then they throw a bunch of inventory out there and there's not a whole lot of training. That happens with their salespeople. They find five acres open. They throw $200,000 in inventory on there.

Shed Geek:

Hey, you get your percentage, but there's not a selling with an expectation of a retail partner. You know that you would see in most other industries Net 30, 30, net 60, net 90, floor planning, wholesale purchase, it's, it's hey, sell the low-hanging fruit, operate as a billboard for our company. It's a good place to bring our repos back to. Right now, we have a security net for whenever sheds don't sell. But is there, is there ever any training, not only about the company and sheds and carpentry and all these different things, but also what it means to be, uh, compliant with RTO.

Shed Geek:

And maybe you know, because everyone's approved, it's easy to just be like, ah, come on in, it doesn't matter who buys, it doesn't matter if it's a good or bad decision for you. My job is to sell and get that commission, and sometimes the lucrativeness of that commission selling two or three buildings a week at 10% far outweighs any risk necessary to learn or to even educate your customer. Now, with that being said, we're telling people how to spend their money, Vance, you know what I mean. We're telling people how to spend their money, Vance, you know what I mean. It becomes very difficult when it's like, well, hey, we're offering them a solution when no one else will. Albeit, we view that solution. Some might view that solution as this is a more expensive route to go down, as opposed to just saving your money, paying cash, doing a traditional finance with simple interest. Where do we draw the line on? I'd rather not offer that, because that's a bad deal for you versus well, someone needs to offer it, so it might as well be me.

Vance Wright:

Right, very interesting conversation. Again, I'll point you back to what I said. I'd love to hear some comments and some feedback on this because it's just my opinion and it's worth what it costs you. But it looks like. Looks like to me the whole concept of rent-to-own really was birthed from a need for financing. It's like I told that banker last week.

Vance Wright:

I know I get the whole concept of titling something, but banks, credit unions, anywhere will loan you money on a car in a moment that's going down the road, getting tore up, beat up, girlfriend putting her foot through the windshield or whatever, and shed is far more unlikely to be damaged or lost or moved. So, I think that's a very interesting concept in the whole finance world and I do understand the marketing angle on the rent to own. Understand the marketing angle on the rent to own. It is a logical solution to the problem of long-term storage rent and not owning anything ever. I'm not saying it doesn't have its place, but I'm not real sure that's honestly where it was birthed from. If we were to just tell the truth, I know for us internally we tried partnering with several different financial institutions to offer financing before we started doing RTO internally and the real reason we've done that is because no one would offer financing on the shed.

Shed Geek:

That's really the core of it there is influence from within the rent-to-own world. That would suggest some kind of calls as to why traditional financing institutions wouldn't take on the risk of a secured, or even non-secured, loan of a shed.

Vance Wright:

I have no idea.

Shed Geek:

I think I mean. My answer to that would be no, but I can also be naive. I'm fine with being naive. I'd rather be naive, you know, than to ignore the truth, right? So, I don't, because I think that would be a really hard thing to pull off. And instead, what my opinion? What my opinion seems to be is look we, when we jumped into to rent to own, we were kind of forced into it because I do believe that there's influence there in rent to own and we kind of noticed it in the marketing world. So, we almost had to be able to protect our marketing clients by offering rent-to-own so that we could offer a solution that was all in one. Well, next thing, you know, that took us into finance. But then the question came up on the table do we jump into POS and 3D? And we've had opportunities to partner and we've turned those down and we're thankful for those opportunities. But we just try to promote those companies through traditional advertising on the podcast.

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Shed Geek:

Loudest voices against dealer premiums here a couple of years ago and I found it interesting I almost want to be careful what I say here because I found it interesting to see people flip flop their position People who are very prominent on whether or not a dealer premium is a good thing from one year to the next to go from saying it's I don't care to the next year saying our first year saying it's a terrible idea, quit doing it to the next year saying I really don't care if you do it or not, it's just a market, a market thing. What we did was took a different approach. I definitely tried to use the power of creativity, and I don't always get it right, but I can. I can tell you this If we were going to offer a premium, the approach that we took was how can I do this in a way that you can't infiltrate a customer by simply paying them more money, because, man, that low hanging fruit is really and we're getting deep here now. We got deep real quick. But that low hanging fruit, that little bit of money, can sometimes like blindside you to like other opportunity and I'll, I'm interviewing you, but I'll break this down here, uh, my thoughts. So, uh, tell me to shut up at any time and you start, you start talking, that's, that's no problem with me.

Shed Geek:

I think if you are in marketing, whether you're Coca-Cola or whether you're Harley Davidson or whether you're Better Billings, we suggest because experts suggest that at least 4% of your total revenue be applied towards your marketing concept. Now, that's your overall marketing concept and some of the aggressive guys go 8%, 9%, but just a minimal. Well, that just so happens to kind of mimic a little bit about what you're seeing in the dealer premium world, right, like an average of 5% kickback on your sales. So, we took our premium and our primary suggestion is to find out the nature of the company by offering a premium solution that is, a marketing solution for you. In other words, if you're going to apply that, why don't you just apply the money that we're going to give you through a kickback towards your marketing. And now a marketing company would have to come in and out-serve us. They can out-pay us because there's way bigger companies than us out there. Don't pay us because there's way bigger companies than us out there. They can come in and just offer you a 6%, 7%, 8% I've heard 9%, and in my head, I can't help but wrap myself around.

Shed Geek:

How much yield is rent to own making that you could possibly give back 9%. And do you want to win business? That bad, and me and I know other companies have said we won't go there. There's not enough to give away. I can't give you enough to be my customer, and when it's that competitive it probably needs shaking up. But what we have done to shake up our end is said we're going to offer you something more than money. You give a million in rent to own and you get a $50,000 check back at the end of the year. Let's take that 50 grand, dump it in your marketing and let's take your sales from 2 million to 4 million. And now it has residual effect because now you get better, lumber prices, now you get an opportunity to grow as a company and wouldn't you rather have your yield coming from your sales as opposed to a spiff off of your rent to own, like, don't you want to actually grow your business, you know?

Shed Geek:

And then there's other traps is the wrong word, I'm not trying to get in trouble here with anyone. But purchasing inventory, you know, we've done it and I don't like it, to be honest with you. I don't like it to be honest with you. I don't really like. Look, if you go to the bank and you ask for a loan and you got me fired up already, Vance, I'm sorry If you go to the bank and ask for a loan, guess what they want back? They want their money back with interest. Well, I mean just generally speaking that's why they loan you money.

Shed Geek:

But RTO probably wants some influence, so I'm going to get myself in trouble today, but I've been a little bit unhinged here lately, so it's fine. I'll defend myself for anybody who wants to come on and challenge the opinion. But I do believe that it is very influential, to the point of influencing banks. I don't know about that, but it is definitely influential in the industry.

Vance Wright:

I wasn't insinuating that. I think banks are being blackmailed by our little small rent-to-own companies or our big ones either one, but I do think it's very interesting.

Vance Wright:

Like you pointed out, I think it's possible that even the manufacturers and the sales lots at times have lost track of truly serving the client that walks through their door, charging a rate that is adequate to maintain me being able to serve you long term, to maintain me being able to serve you long-term, and some of that attention has turned toward I've got to make sure the rent-to-own company is happy and fed. What a powerful statement.

Vance Wright:

When really the core of the reason of rent-to-own even exists is because of a lack of financing for the shed industry in the beginning, in its early stages.

Shed Geek:

I feel like you're going to. You and me are both going to get fan mail and hate mail alike but I agree Quite possible.

Shed Geek:

But I agree, you know I do here's. You know, for me it's probably the influence that matters most. It's the same as when a company calls me and says I want to go to work with this guy, what's your thoughts? They're going to buy a shed company for me and the only thing I got to do is give them my rent to own and got to give it to them for years and this, that and others. Well, what's the difference in that and the bank? I mean, you're not. Look, I have a truck out here in the driveway which is to say that the bank has a truck that they loan me every month as long as I make my payments until they're made. And it's arguably the same. If you purchase a company, the bank will own it, but if the rent-owned company owns that, then you essentially work for the rent-owned company. You disguise it in owning a shed company, but not for 30 years, until you pay for it, because your decisions aren't always your decisions and that's why I believe in contracts. But I'm also very careful about what I sign. Now nowadays, and I'm trying to stop. I want to pull us almost back a little bit and look at what the bigger picture of this really means, and I think the point you're trying to make is that it's influential and it was really thought to become a payment option for the customer and then it became so much more. And I'll tell you where I think you're right and I don't want to give away any competitive advantage.

Shed Geek:

I heard somebody say one time if you got an idea, you need to keep it to yourself. Move slow, move quiet. But I'm going to give you an idea and I think I've mentioned it on the podcast before and I just had a two- hour long conversation with somebody yesterday on this and I'm curious your thoughts, so I can shut up and it's hard to, because the things you're discussing are so close to our world. Um, we thought about going just direct to consumer, and we may still as a rent-to-own provider. Uh, and how do we accomplish that? You know, uh, by going to, because and you say, why direct consumer? What do you? Right now I have to go to the manufacturer to suggest they use our rent-to-own services Theoretically, because the manufacturer owns the inventory. They would make the decision on what rent-to-own company or even multiple rent-to-own companies they use, assuming that they're not tied to the inventory, assuming they have some kind of autonomy where they can make their own choices right and choose which rent-owned provider they want. Some just give that option away to their dealer network. You know, some dealer networks actually purchase wholesale, so of course they can choose their own because they own their own product. Some dealer networks actually purchase wholesale, so of course they can choose their own because they own their own product. Some don't even know what they can offer and what they can't. They're not sure when they're an employee and when they're an independent contractor. It's mind-boggling.

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Shed Geek:

If I go direct to consumer and let's say they come into better buildings, I'm going to use you as the example. I'm going to use you as the guinea pig here today. Sure, let's say that I go and find someone in Paul's Valley, Oklahoma, who wants to come in to buy a shed, and they have a voucher. And they walk in today and they say hey, we've been pre-approved already, we just need to buy a shed. We've been visiting shed lots already. Shed Geek Rentals is going to go ahead and take care of purchasing the shed from you today. What would Vance say, knowing that he does an internal rent-to-own. I found the customer, I sent them out shopping and they came to your place to purchase a shed and they're going to get a rent-to-own contract because we've already pre-approved them. We're going to send you the check directly. What say you Vance to that customer?

Vance Wright:

Today? I'm not sure. That's a very interesting concept. I'll draw an interesting parallel. I have a meeting set up this Friday. I told you we build a lot of metal buildings. We actually do some turnkey barn dominiums.

Vance Wright:

Occasionally I've got a gentleman coming in to finalize a contract with. I'll sit in on the meeting with my project manager. He and I have completed a budget. It's ready to go and their bank has sent them in pre-approved, if you will quote unquote, although really the bank didn't send them. They just went to the bank and said hey look, we're wanting to build a 3,200-square-foot home and here's what we think the budget might be and we want to apply for this and we've got 20 acres and let's do this.

Vance Wright:

They come to me with check in hand, very similar to what you're describing as a rent-to-own, which ties back again to what I said when we started this conversation. I really think the whole concept of rent-to-own was born out of a need for financing, not saying it doesn't have a place. I just think as the financing part of it matures further, you will see the rent-to-own piece of the market shrink at some point. What that does to the industry, how impactful that is to manufacturers I don't know what the timeline is on that, but I suspect that the market will balance itself out in that respect at some point I agree.

Shed Geek:

I agree, and that's part of why we took on partnering with a finance company within the last years, because it seems like the natural progression, you know, at some point, and that just depends on when banks become competitive in our space. Because the one thing I've noticed in the last 10 years you take a look at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and you know, but bankers are having a hard time recovering their assets for secured loans of $600,000 homes. It's really hard for them to jump into a high-risk unsecured loan like a shed that they don't know anything about.

Shed Geek:

They're like I'm not interested, I can't recover my $600,000 times what $200,000 that I've got out there do I want to recover 7,000 times 7,000? You know, I don't know, it's like it's so. The bank hasn't really responded to it as a mature business, to use your words, yet, but there are some, and I think it will become more competitive. This is something I said yesterday and I think you'll agree. If a bank, if a customer came in with a pre-approved letter from a bank and wanted to purchase a shed from you today, you wouldn't think anything about it.

Shed Geek:

And I don't think any manufacturer out there would think anything about it, because they know it's a bank. The bank wants their money. It's real easy. But if the same customer came in with a pre-approved rent-to-own voucher, I believe there are manufacturers who would encourage their dealers not to sell that shed because they couldn't get the rent to own on it, or they would attempt to talk the customer into it. Mind you, they didn't find the lead, but they want to gather the opportunity to sell. And that, right there, tells me something very interesting.

Vance Wright:

Absolutely Well, even your take on it and even your tone. We could debate this for some time probably, and you said we had a time limit.

Vance Wright:

So, I won't drag this on, but the very even your intonation, with your wording here, is that the manufacturer should honor what the rent to own company has done. So it kind of goes back to what I have said a couple of times the rent-to-own has become a huge driver of the industry, even more so than the manufacturer, more so than the sales lot and more so than the haulers, all of whom I respect and, quite frankly, most of whom I really wanted to be 25 years ago, 20 years ago when we started into the industry. So very, very interesting concept behind all that.

Shed Geek:

It is, it really is, and I agree with you that it's very influential to the point where rent-owned companies are choosing to own the vertical, I would say by just buying the manufacturer out.

Vance Wright:

Simple case study. Probably most of you that are listening to this podcast, or at least a large percentage of you, had representation at the Shed Show in Michigan this year. Who was the star of the show at Michigan? Roll back in your mind. Who had the two biggest boosts? Surely had the last advance.

Shed Geek:

I's surely having the third one down I'm just obviously well, I'm just kidding look at the real estate.

Vance Wright:

The three largest booths were owned by rent-to-own companies at the shed show I?

Shed Geek:

I'm going to be honest with you.

Vance Wright:

I didn't notice roll back in your mind and you'll know I won't call names. I have friends in all three camps good, but we don't want to do here the three largest vendors other than Cardinal. Cardinal was a huge competitor.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, no, that's an interesting thought. I have to be careful because I gain enemies real quick whenever I mention names and look, I believe in difficult conversation. I mean I even you know, I open the floor for those companies to come on and defend their position, should they choose to. You know what I mean, because I think it makes for a good conversation, but all it does is really prove your point, if that's true, that you know you're, you're, you're attempting to go bigger, to do more. I mean, we've done, we've done different things.

Shed Geek:

Rent to own is a small portion. Look, we're small potatoes in comparison and we had some great opportunities. We had, uh, exclusivity options with some very large rent to own providers that we didn't. We didn't take Uh, and I actually instead chose to work with a very small uh company that had been in business for years. That was uh, I don't mind saying I think they'll admit this was shrinking, was shrinking because they weren't really growing, uh, their network in that opportunity, um, uh, and they were attempting to figure it out. We just happened to have a platform where, where we could do that and guess what, because we were very advertising was very abrasive for us we could occupy these spaces where we were making people hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars through coming on the podcast or to advertising. That's not to say everyone sees the same results. Some people come on here, they advertise, and people don't buy their product, and they say we didn't have no luck. Your podcast sucks.

Shed Geek:

And I say well, I don't know, maybe it's not me, maybe it's your product, your message or something along those lines, that's not always true.

Shed Geek:

I'm just, you know, I'm being honest. You know some guys have made tons of money, you know, from being on here, and you say, well, what influence does that hold? I hope that it holds the influence. To do the right thing is what I hope, and sometimes that means the right thing for myself, for my family. Like, we can't operate this thing for free. We have four full-time employees doing a ton of stuff that people don't see, and while I'd love to be able to just be a charitable event, like we have to make money, like everyone. Just the same, as the church asks for tithing because there's a certain dollar element that's necessary in order for it to pay its bills, we do too. But we, you know, we try to live modest, and we live publicly. We're transparent for anybody who wants to visit us or see us or know what we do. Thank you for listening to part one of a two-part series. Be sure to tune in next week for more engaging conversation here at the Shed Geek podcast.