Shed Geek Podcast
The Shed Geek Podcast offers an in depth analysis of the ever growing and robust Shed Industry. Listeners will experience a variety of guests who identify or specialize in particular niche areas of the Shed Industry. You will be engaged as you hear amateur and professional personalities discuss topics such as: Shed hauling, sales, marketing, Rent to Own, shed history, shed faith, and much more. Host Shannon Latham is a self proclaimed "Shed Geek" who attempts to take you through discussions that are as exciting as the industry itself. Listeners of this podcast include those who play a role directly or indirectly with the Shed Industry itself.
Shed Geek Podcast
Digital Innovation, Sales Strategies, and Collaborative Growth
Discover the hidden dynamics of the shed and metal building industry with Jared Ledford, our insightful guest, who brings a wealth of experience as Director of Operations at Dayton Barns and All Steel Buildings. Uncover how this industry is reshaping itself through digital innovation, drawing parallels to Amazon's early strategies under Jeff Bezos. Jared’s perspective sheds light on the urgent need for businesses to not just keep up but forge ahead of consumer trends to remain competitive.
The conversation navigates the exciting terrain of digital marketplaces like ShedHub, revealing their potential to revolutionize the sales landscape for shed dealers. We tackle pressing challenges—independent manufacturers striving to maintain quality amidst competitive pressures and the potential emergence of a governing body to uphold industry standards. The synergy between lead generation and sales conversion is dissected, highlighting the pivotal role of sales strategy beyond mere lead acquisition.
Explore the debate around consignment dealership models and their profound impact on the industry. Jared and I investigate whether these models hinder progress or remain a necessary part of the landscape. The dialogue emphasizes the importance of trust and collaboration between manufacturers and dealers to prevent pitfalls like over-promising. As we round off, the episode underscores the value of meaningful exchanges and the spirit of innovation in driving the industry forward.
For more information or to know more about the Shed Geek Podcast visit us at our website.
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To suggest show topics or ask questions you want answered email us at info@shedgeek.com.
This episodes Sponsors:
Studio Sponsor: Union Grove Lumber
iFAB LLC
CAL
Shed Suite
Identigrow
Solar Blaster
Okay, welcome back to another episode of the Shed Geek podcast and overdue, long-anticipated conversation that we're having here today on this cold, cold day. I'm assuming you guys are cold there in Ohio, Jared Sure is here in Illinois.
JARED LEDFORD:Trying to keep the shop warm this morning. Shannon, how are you brother?
SHED GEEK:Man, I'm doing good Looking forward to this conversation. There's just some that you feel like high-level conversations go to like this. I don't know, man, I enjoy every podcast because every story is unique, but I'm really looking forward to this because I feel like it's a good high-level conversation, because every time me and you seem to chat, it always ends in something that leaves me, you know, thinking for a long period of time. So, I love the thought-provoking conversations. Jared, welcome to the show. You care to introduce yourself a little bit about who you are and what you do.
JARED LEDFORD:Sure man, I can't agree with you enough. Man, I think we've talked I don't know half dozen times or so over the last year or two and every time it's just like man. We got to do this on the podcast, we got to get this out to everybody. So, I'm Jared Ledford. I am the director of operations for Dayton Barnes and All Steel Buildings. We are a metal building and shed dealer here in fabulous Urbana, Ohio. We currently have four physical locations, and we work alongside a partner with J Money to do some financing with them as well and work with, you know, probably a dozen or so metal manufacturers across the United States Got a special relationship with a couple of them and we're currently a happy and content Sheds Direct dealer. So just to be as transparent as I can be on, that side.
SHED GEEK:Yeah, no, that's good. So, metal and wood, you're kind of in both of those areas. Now do you do anything outside of like sheds and carports, like do you get into the post-frame world or any of that?
JARED LEDFORD:We tried to dig in a little bit into post-frame. So, I think we, I think, Shannon, I actually met you at a post-frame builders convention, that's right.
JARED LEDFORD:And you know we you know I do a lot of stuff with Joel Oney, who's the owner of J Money, and I know Shannon, you do too, but from a pole building side we've just never dug into it. It's one of those things that, from a dealer perspective, there's a couple of outfits out there that are doing it really well and doing it at a really high level and we kind of just want to stay in our lane and, to be perfectly honest, we're a metal building company, a sales company first and foremost. We do sheds here locally in the Ohio area and I'm sure we're going to get into it a little bit. But my vision for what is forward for our industry is really inside sales, online sales. I think that the industry is trending that way. Anyhow, I think that people in general are trending that way.
JARED LEDFORD:I think that there's a happy balance between finding that online sales environment that really goes to the dealer level for the lot guys. There are a lot of guys out there. I know a lot of them right that they're successful and they're like. You know what? I'm not going to do online. I'm going to do a little bit of Facebook in my area, but I'm not going to dig into the online thing and you know, I think that's really where Dayton Barnes is going to be. You know, we're already pretty successful at what we do online and if we can focus on that over the next, you know, six to 12 months, I think we're really going to do some exciting things. So that's what kind of what's going on here is inside and online.
SHED GEEK:So, it's a great point and you know I like to use the words. You know we're not exempt in the shed and metal building industry from the way that consumers choose to purchase. You know, so like, even if we're not, you know, the biggest fan of websites and SEO and learning about all these different marketing strategies and that, and then tying that into the sales process, which, first, it doesn't matter, the rest of the world's choosing to shop for most products this way. I think I just told you part of my research in talking with one of my favorite advertisers, shed Hub the guys over there, jeff and was watching the movie about Jeff Bezos this last Friday and I watched it from more of an educational perspective than much of an education or, you know, much of an entertainment value, because there wasn't a lot of entertainment value. It was terrible acting. So, if you watch it, it's don't be impressed, but the storyline was really cool and it. You know they even talk about little things that kind of like whether it was meant to be educational by nature or whether it's authentic and how things happen for the company.
SHED GEEK:A couple of things I didn't know. I didn't know the company went through a few name changes, according to, at least to the movie. It's not a documentary, it's entertainment, but originally it was going to be cadaver. Uh, originally was going to be cadaver, I didn't know that sort of like magic, but they kept saying people kept saying cadaver. And they were like no, that's terrible name, like you don't want that and. And then they went with relentless and. Uh, actually he kind of credited the owner of like Barnes and Noble for changing his mind on that through the movie. Sure, but amazon. And you know part of the reason why they went with amazon, and this is kind of a rabbit trail, but it started with an A. They really wanted something to start with A, because the developer of the website was recognizing that Google was ranking websites in alphabetical order at the time. Now, this is like late 90s. Imagine where we are 20, 30 years later. But websites aren't going away, right? Yeah, for sure, online sales aren't going away aren't going away, right?
JARED LEDFORD:Yeah, for sure, for sure. Online sales aren't going away, yeah, and I think that there's so many. You know there's been, you know, in a shed perspective, right, you know, as conglomerate companies start to acquire manufacturers, there's going to be a need for those conglomerates to really have a strong inside sales presence. And whether or not they decide to do that, you know inside, you know, I think one of the things that you, we've talked about, Shannon, is when manufacturers have the opportunity, they don't necessarily do sales all that well, you know their job is not to sell anything. You know that their job is to manufacture and then also find more people to do that same process, and I think that that's why a lot of the conglomerate manufacturers have struggled with it. I mean it's, I don't think it's a secret. I think inside sales is something that has been slow to be integrated into our market, into our, into our, into our field, and I think it's been because of how it's been approached. It needs to be from a perspective of, you know, somebody like me.
JARED LEDFORD:I'm not going to pat myself on the back. I'm a halfway decent portable building and metal building seller, you know, and we've made a. You know what we do here is way different than what pretty much everybody else does in the industry. Everybody thinks I'm nuts, but you know I have a W2 sales team. You know I have salary paid guys in the shop every day, you know, on four lots, and I still utilize independent contractors. You know we wouldn't be able to do it without guys that are hustling and doing their own thing and want to roll outside. You know the confines of a structure but you know I've got, you know, 10 to 15 people at any given moment and I would say about 10 of those folks have stuck with us.
JARED LEDFORD:Now we're going into our third, going up on our third year of W2. And we've really been impressed with not only can we offer the manufacturers, so from a steel side, we can offer the manufacturers a very inclusive process. We own it from start to finish and I think that that we need that on the shed side. Quite frankly, we need that ownership level because you know if you're an independent manufacturer sitting somewhere right now and you've got a lot dealer, you know they're making promises. They can't keep what they think you're going to be able to do and you know you need people in your corner and you know you need people in your corner that are going to follow your rules and you give them the confines of. Well, you know our lead time is currently four to six weeks, but you know what? If the building's over a certain amount, we can probably get it done in three to five.
JARED LEDFORD:But it's all about talk. Track too, it's. Is it four weeks or less? Is it six weeks or less? Is it four to six weeks? How do you want to go about saying that? And when you have W2 people in the shop with a good CRM system, with a good way to track them, you can track and see what they're saying and you go in and you monitor chats, so all of so, just to give you a little bit about our process we use, you know, meta.
JARED LEDFORD:We're, we're living and breathing and dying with meta, but meta is our, is our go-to. Right now. We do a lot of Google. We just started, just launched I'm happy to announce it as a matter of fact, we just launched our new website today, this morning. So this is October the 15th. This morning of October 15th, we just launched our new website. We've gone full in on SEO. So that's going to be a transition for 2025 to really seek out that organic presence online.
JARED LEDFORD:But you know, all of our messages, all of our customer communications come through a custom built CRM that we have. And then that CRM, you know somebody like me, or you know Eric, who owns Dayton Barnes. We can watch that communication, we can see the communication from start to finish and we can train reps based on the processes that we see as integral to the sales process for metal buildings and sheds. And I think that this is the kind of, if you're a lot dealer or you're a manufacturer, a small manufacturer, these are the things that are going to be coming up on you and finding the right partner. And you know I I'm good where I'm at. You know what I mean.
JARED LEDFORD:This is not I'm not, this is not a call to action for me specifically, but it's a call to action for the listeners out there, and I think that's why Shannon and I wanted to have this talk, not just as a. You know we're going to riff for a while, right, but you know it is a call to action for you to kind of hear and, you know, maybe be motivated for 30 seconds of this podcast to say, man, I really should consider something in the tech space. I mean, you know, we just got back from Shed Expo, right? Shannon and I were both there. There are so many good options out there, so many good options out there for the next piece of your business, whatever that next piece is. I could speak to probably a dozen or more people that I saw at the expo that have some sort of really next level product.
JARED LEDFORD:You said Shed Hub. I like Shed Hub too. I think Shed Hub is a great resource. If you're not on Shed Hub, it is a super good asset and I'll use that as an example just because, to me, if you want to be able to be in a marketplace that isn't Facebook marketplace and you want to be, you know, in a, in a search field within 50 miles of your location, Shed Hub's where it's at, if you search, you know. I'm just going to use my example Urbana, Ohio, sheds near me. Boom, my sheds are on.
JARED LEDFORD:You know, shed Hub. That simple and it's no, it's no real work. You have everything that you need and it gives you the access to from what I'm talking about on the on the inside sales track. You know you can sit at a lot. Maybe you have one or two lots and you've got let's say you got 20 inventory on each lot. Now, all of a sudden, you have a digital way to share that with a customer and even though you don't want to go that way as the primary focus of your business, it's still a way. Is, the more we trend to the cell phone, the more we trend to this space right here, the less we trend in face-to-face interactions? We've sold a lot of sheds this year and not ever saw the customer. I mean, we have sold a lot of sheds, a lot of sheds in 2024 never, never, saw anybody it says so much about, you know, the current uh climate in retail.
SHED GEEK:Uh, a lot of people just don't, you know, maybe just don't consider or don't want it to be, and like I don't know how many times I heard people talking about like the mule or you know different things come out. Now there's this super awesome Shed Challenger out. Like you start to see where competition comes in those.
SHED GEEK:That was an exciting thing, to see there at the expo. Um, you know, and it's really I remember I'm saying it took so long to embrace like a, an apparatus to move sheds, because we've done it for the same way for so long with, you know, trucks and winches and pipes and things like that and it took a while to embrace. I think you know, my biggest thing when I talked to Jeff is I'm like hey, you just don't want to be the MySpace of the shed industry, like first movers. Advantage sometimes is difficult. I've thought about that in podcasting. I'm like, oh, I don't, it doesn't bother me if other people podcast.
JARED LEDFORD:I felt like it's great you know to have more information in there, but you know somebody may do it better or somebody does it better, but then you're, you know I would either have to improve or step aside. That's sort of the goal and competition creates that. Competition creates that. You know as you see things. So, if you're an independent manufacturer and you're in the middle of a, you know, let's use Ohio, for example you know I'm here. If you're an independent manufacturer in Ohio, you're probably feeling the squeeze right now. That's just the truth of it as an independent dealer, even though we are a super proud and with Sheds Direct Now, does that mean that I have a flawless end result? Of course not. You know everybody makes mistakes, but you know the squeeze the squeeze that these smaller manufacturers have to be feeling right now is real and the squeeze happens in a lot of different ways.
JARED LEDFORD:What I see from a dealer perspective is I see lower quality buildings, less building materials overall and a race to the bottom. And the reason that you know, from our perspective, that we went with Sheds Direct is because they sell a really high-quality building. They have, you know, they use top-notch components. They do a really good job of turning it around and we've not had any major issues. But from a you know, from a dealer perspective, did I have a better experience when I was using an independent manufacturer as far as price, as far as willingness to do one-offs and things like that? Of course I did. So, it was a give and take for me to say am I willing to sell a more expensive building to keep my quality where it needs to be all the time?
JARED LEDFORD:And from somebody who wants to be a plus better business bureau, rated, care about Google reviews, care about end product for the customer, what we have to do as a community and this is, I think, another thing you and I have talked about at length is the race to the bottom has to stop. I'm not sure you know you and I have talked about governing body. You know, I think governing body would be something that you know and I use that term loosely right. But you know it would be nice for key players to show up and say, hey, these are going to be the minimum building specs for a building in this area. And you know, what we're going to end up seeing is, if we don't regulate ourselves, somebody's going to regulate us.
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JARED LEDFORD:So, Alabama? You know I don't think anybody thinks that Alabama is very strict. I don't think. You know, I've been to Alabama and I love Alabama. I've spent a lot of time there. You know, I've been to Alabama and I love Alabama. I've spent a lot of time there and Alabama is the first state that we've come across with metal buildings. That's going to require site-specific blueprints on every building that we sell. Period For it to be zoned properly, it's going to require site-specific blueprints. And that's Alabama. We're not talking about California, New York State, Florida. We're talking about Alabama.
JARED LEDFORD:So where do we start with sheds? Are they going to go to stronger building requirements? Here in Urbana we have a very strict building regulation department. I've had issues getting sheds permitted here. I mean tough, really strict, like you need site-specific blueprints for a shed, you have to be 16 inches on center, you need hurricanes highs, you need to be anchored and it's like. These are the kind of things that, as a small manufacturer, dealer, you need to be well aware of. You will deal with these things if you don't know what you're doing. I I love what you said about regulation too.
SHED GEEK:It's thought provoking, which it's all our conversations always are. You can regulate yourself or you'll be regulated by somebody, because that seems to be the case that at some point there is more regulation that seems to be coming. And I want to make sure I clarify something on Shed Hub whenever I say don't be the MySpace. You know they were the first ones to the market with their product, but sometimes it takes a long time to get a market to engage. Look at what facebook has done, and now myspace is nowhere around.
SHED GEEK:Right tiktok is yep, it's taking over, so it's like it's.
SHED GEEK:It's. It's an example of like you can have a good idea, you can put it to market, but then it's and I've been talking to Jeff about this it's like I don't know you get the text messages right. You know, I'm assuming whenever a lead comes in your way and I was talking to somebody about that recently and I was like we deal with that from a marketing perspective, Jared, and that people are like you can, how many sales can you guarantee me? And you're like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, way bigger conversation. Because now you're saying how, whoa, whoa, whoa, way bigger conversation. Because now you're saying how many sales can I guarantee, how many leads can I guarantee? You know, we can probably fall into this category and this category based off of how much you're willing to invest, cause, like you know how big can you even?
SHED GEEK:take it, but can I, can I guarantee the sales? That's a whole different process that Jared's talking about, which is the sales process.
JARED LEDFORD:The problem with it is that Shed Hub's a tool. Shed Hub doesn't guarantee sales, and this is any of the Idea Room, ShedApp, any of these companies out there. They're used as lead gen. So, my sales process starts with lead generation. Right, I have an in-house lead generation, morgan, who's in my office, does a fantastic job. She sources probably anywhere from 85 to 200 raw. Can I get a building quote? Am I in your service area? Whatever the case may be, and you have to look at metrics on those lead gens. So, lead gen starts in a certain pile. How do you get those lead gens? Organic SEO, Google Analytics, meta, Shed Hub, whatever tools you're using.
JARED LEDFORD:Idea Room is another one that we use. I got to give them a plug and a shout out. They have done and, to be honest, I have forced their hand. Sometimes you have to be a little bit aggressive, but a little bit outside the box, and say, hey, can you do this for me? And the question is how fast can they do it? Because I've never met a tech guy who says, well, I can't do that, it's just going to take me, you know an X number of hours Exactly.
JARED LEDFORD:So, if you're willing to put your money where your mouth is a little bit when it comes to lead gen. So, lead gen is a process and it requires tools to get there. There are a lot of tools Shed Hub is one of them, idea Room is one of them. Seo, like we said, from lead gen you have to be able to determine how much of those raw leads so 85 to 200 for us what percentage can I convert at? You have to set a percentage for yourself to say okay, is it 75? Am I going to convert 75 of my raw leads into active leads for my employees? Right, that's what I do on a daily basis. I'm trying to convert between 70 and 80%. Let's use a hundred as the number. I'm hoping to take 70 leads out to about 10 guys per day, every day, all day, you know, 325 days a year, whatever it looks like, and then from there you determine your close rates.
JARED LEDFORD:And if you can close between seven and 12%, you're doing well. So, I would challenge you independent shed dealer, independent shed manufacturer, when you go to you know, when you utilize a tool, your tool is only going to be as good as the as the person that's holding it Right. So, if you've got a hammer in your hand and you know how quick can I get this sheeting of LP up on the side of this 10 by 16? Well, if you've got a new guy and he doesn't know how to use a hammer, not very quick. But if you've got a seasoned hand and he's going to, you know, maybe he's got a nail gun. He replaced the hammer a long time ago. He's got a nail gun. Now he's nailing that thing up. He's got it up in 10 minutes, but he's skilled.
JARED LEDFORD:So, I think you asked the right question of you know how many sales is it going to bring me? Well, how good of a salesman are you? You can have all the leads in the world, but if you're a crappy salesman, guess what? You're not going to sell anything. If you got all the leads in the world Shed Hub's producing, SEO's producing, everything's producing If you can't sell, maybe the problem's you.
JARED LEDFORD:Oh man right, one of my I mean, I would say he's probably one of my very best friends in this space and if you met him you would think oh man, this guy is not a salesman because he's not, but he has taken classes, he's read books and he is one of the best salesmen that I know. And it's not because he's a naturally gifted salesperson, it's because he has taught himself, he's gone outside of his comfort zone and he, you know, he could build them. He could, he could deliver them. Now he can sell them and he's done everything in his power to become kind of a one-stop shop. Right, he could put them together, he could deliver them, he can sell them. If you can sell, then you have to figure out. There's all kinds of different tools you can use. Then you're looking backwards. But if you can't sell and you're getting all the leads, then you got to figure out how to sell. Just my opinion.
SHED GEEK:Yeah, no, there's no doubt about it. Well, we're lucky enough to have not lost a client yet in marketing. So right now we can say that and we can be bold about that and be proud of that. Will it happen eventually? Sure, of course. I think it's kind of hard to imagine that it won't happen. However, we've not lost anyone yet. So, we really try to push that really hard to get people to understand that like, hey, if you actually work, these leads that you're getting, if you develop yourself inside the sales process.
SHED GEEK:But, Jared, there's a different way to look at this. You know, there are companies out there selling $150 million a year in sheds, but there's also companies out there manufacturing that are selling one to five million and they're small mom and pop operation. They prefer to keep it that way. And you wear a lot of hats, you know, and when you say marketing and sales, they're like, yeah, that's me, and then chief trash taker, outer, that's me too. And then, like you know well, I deliver the sheds and then I. So they're wearing a lot of hats that you know, maybe they can't take the time to organize into a machine.
SHED GEEK:Whenever it comes to like understanding marketing and typically what we found and we know this just from the job offers right. Typically, the larger companies are like hey, we just want to hire you, put you under umbrella, put you under a salary, you know, be able to use your talents and expand our business. And that's why we're an agency is to stay away from that right. It offers us the most economy and independence for us to be able to, you know, collect not only financially but through other things. We want to, you know, collect not only financially but through other things. We want freedom, you know. Freedom on our schedule, things like that, the ability to go and work other places, and I don't know where do you land on all of that? Where does that conversation fit for? Like your average shed dealer, maybe.
JARED LEDFORD:Well, somebody like me, right? So, I? I mean I'm an average shed dealer, right? I mean I'm doing, you know, I will probably do about one and a half to 2 million in wood sheds. So while I seem like, you know, while I seem like I'm far away, I'm exceeding. I'm not. You know, I cleaned the toilets last week. You know I am that guy. I'm not, you know, and you know that I mean I'm not, I'm not sitting back on any kind of high horse. What I want to do is we started off with one lot with handsome Sheds. A conglomerate shed company Approached the owner, eric, about five and a half years ago almost six now and from there it's just been one thing after the next. We've worked with multiple manufacturers, we've worked with small, we've worked with different conglomerates. We're happy where we're at now. Does that mean it's going to be that?
JARED LEDFORD:way next year, who knows?
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JARED LEDFORD:Personal development and growth is always got to be at the forefront of what you're doing, not necessarily business development and growth. I think personal development and growth is the number one thing that I focus on and I try to get the employees to care about it too. If you care about yourself and you care about your family and you put that at the forefront of every decision that you're going to make and how it impacts the next decision and the next decision I would encourage shed dealers out there. If you're not selling metal buildings, try it. If you're a metal building dealer and you're not selling sheds, try it.
JARED LEDFORD:I think that sometimes you get so comfortable that you get complacent, and I think that there is a very, very fine line between being comfortable and being complacent, and I think if you're not uncomfortable and you're not growing, then you're going backwards, and I think what you're going to do is you're going to look up and find yourself in a not too short a time period. It's not. It probably won't be me, maybe I'll be a part of it for somebody I'd love to be, but there's other people thinking of these ideas that have way more money and resources than me.
JARED LEDFORD:I mean, you know that that's the bottom line is. You know, you and I have talked about this a hundred different ways. I'm going to be lucky. What? What I would love to do and you know this I would love to be the sales arm for a handful of people across the United States to where I could just be their dedicated inside sales team. I don't necessarily want the freedom that you seek, I want the security that my team deserves at this point.
JARED LEDFORD:We've done this a long time and we have a really good process. I mean our process. I'd put it up there. I mean, I've shown it to a few people. I've had NDAs out there and it's one of those things where love the process, just don't know about inside sales, don't know how it's going to affect our business. We would prefer you to stay a dealer and I think that the antiquation in the dealer model for metal buildings and sheds is there. We're there right now. It's not a 911, but it's sure a small brush fire that could blaze at any moment.
JARED LEDFORD:If you're sitting back and you're like man, I'm getting really good dealer commissions and I'm fat and happy, brother, you better just hope. You better just hope that times are high for a while, because I can tell you from somebody who works with a lot of manufacturers, the race to the bottom will eventually affect the dealers. You have to think about it from an economic standpoint. I'm at standpoint from a, from a if the dealer's making 15 to 20% in the manufacturer net profit is less than 10. There's going to be a give there, okay, and I don't, you know. I again I'm not trying to scare anybody or tell anybody what's up, but I can tell you from a, from somebody who does this a lot right, this is my everyday job. I don't do anything else. This is not my side hustle, this is not my want to be nine to five. I eat, sleep and breathe Dayton barns, metal buildings and wood sheds all day, every day, 365. And I and I love what I do, and I think that there are so many people out there that are doing this that don't love what they do and they need to find that love a little bit. You know, I think the inside sales approach isn't for everybody. I get that and I would challenge you to think again. If you're comfortable, you're probably borderline complacent, right, and I think that challenging yourself to think outside the box is kind of where we need to be as an industry as a whole. We've been comfortable for far too long. And, to jump back a little bit, I think the dealer model is antiquated and you're not going to find a lot of dealers that are going to say that out loud. I mean, I just think that there is an no-transcript sales piece. I think I get pushback from a lot of folks because it does. It helps accelerate the inequation of the dealer model.
JARED LEDFORD:Well, Jared, you're a dealer. Why would you want that? Well, I want the security of it, right. I want to work alongside. I want to sell the best products. I want to work alongside. I want to sell the best products. I want the customers to have next level experiences, because if you buy a 30 by 50 by 14 for me and it's awesome chances are I'm going to sell three more in the next 24 months. They will tell three people and I will get three more and three more, and it is so on and so forth. I don't even need leads, right? If I sell the best, I will get returns period. If I sell the worst, it's going to cost me, and it's going to cost me not only future sales but time I get wrapped up so much in. You know you promised me this building would be here in 12 weeks or less, and it's week 13.
JARED LEDFORD:Well, you know, unfortunately it goes both ways too. The manufacturers are at a super big disadvantage when they pay the dealer so much of their profits. And the dealers are at a super big disadvantage because they have no skin in the game. They have no say. They're the ones whose reputations are on the line when a manufacturer lets them down. There's a happy balance in the medium to say you know what? I'm only going to work with three manufacturers, period, the end. I'm going to have their best price always, but at the same time they're going to have a dedicated sales team that shows up Monday through Friday. They're not going to have the overhead of paying a sales manager. They're not going to have the overhead of training these people. They're going to give leads to Dayton Barnes and those leads are going to go out and we're going to work them accordingly.
JARED LEDFORD:And we're going to sell buildings and we have a leads we took in. This is how many buildings we sold, period. I mean that's. You know. You have to look at things in black and white and say, well, our you know our on-lot sales have trended down every year. You know we grand opened, we opened two locations in 2024. And you know, chances are we might not have, we might close two locations in 25 and do more business and turn more revenue. You know that's a thing that you know. From our perspective, lots are overhead. You know lots are overhead now.
SHED GEEK:you know if we can, we like to stay in a point where we're we like to say lots are lots are marketing budgets yeah
JARED LEDFORD:that's what ends up happening. If you're paying a couple thousand dollars a month to run a lot, that's going to cost you three building sales. We do that a lot here with how we look at things. I tell the team all the time hey know, hey, Gracie, if you sell a building, it pays for Talon tomorrow. Talon, you sell a building tomorrow, it pays for Bryce the next day. Bryce, you sell a building, it pays for, you know, Thad and Thad. You sell a building, it pays for Landon, and so on and so forth.
JARED LEDFORD:You know, we look at this thing really as a, you know, just a family right, A family atmosphere of like look, we have to care about each other. That's what. That's what you don't get in a competitive 1099 sales environment. You get a bunch of cutthroat people and then what happens is and I know I'm speaking to those metal dealers out there right now right, You've hired you a couple 1099s to work alongside of you, and then three months down the road they're selling buildings for somebody else or for themselves. Because that's what happens. And again we create this race to the bottom. We're thinning the waters out. Nobody's good at this, you know nobody. There is a very select few, very select group of people who are next level at selling metal buildings and sheds period. It is a, you know, know this, Shannon, it's like a one half of one percent and it's no offense. You can get better, you know but I can tell you man we can.
SHED GEEK:we can make this a two-hour podcast, because one gonna get all the hate mail. Now, Jared, I'm gonna get all of it, but I welcome it. It you know what I mean, because difficult conversations create perseverance, and I think you can have difficult conversations with class. I think you can do it in a way that shows that you have thoughts about the industry, that you want to the betterment of the industry is ultimately what you want and because you want to be in an industry that is like you said, secure your personal development.
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SHED GEEK:oh man, sometimes I stay away from these conversations just because I'm like well, you don't want to lose listeners by having controversial conversations. But if, by nature, this conversation is controversial, then I think I just have to be willing to die on that hill, right?
JARED LEDFORD:Do you? I think it's, I think it's, I think it's controversial. I want to ask you this Go ahead.
SHED GEEK:Is, is is this consignment?
SHED GEEK:this consignment dealership models hurt the industry question. I've never asked on the podcast.
JARED LEDFORD:Man.
JARED LEDFORD:I don't know that it hurts the industry, because the industry is built on it. I don't know that we would have as successful an industry as we have without the consignment dealer model. What I can tell you, what hurts the industry is, let's just say, it's manufacturers, both small and conglomerate, that bring on the wrong type people to be the consignment dealers. I think it's the quality and it's not necessarily anything personal, trust me, I've not met anybody in this industry. I can't think of a single person, and I've had some pretty bad experiences with some people. I don't know of anybody. Off the top of my head I don't think of a single person, and I've had some, you know, pretty bad experiences with some people. I don't know of anybody off the top of my head. I don't like. I don't think it's about personality. I think it's about if you have to have somebody in a dealer lot and you you know, let's use round numbers If it costs you $2,000 to be there, it's going to cost you a hundred dollars for some internet. You know, by the internet. By the end of the day, let's just say, you got to turn $2,500 profit just to make the lot profitable. Just to turn $1 in revenue, you have to make $2,500. That's a big ask and I think that manufacturers overextend themselves with consignment too. I think that might be the biggest issue that I see in the industry. There's a lot of unmanned lots. There's a lot of leads that die. I don't know that it's hurting the industry.
JARED LEDFORD:To answer the question outright, I don't think it hurts because it's the only thing that we know. It's the only thing that is really a standardized practice. But if you're an independent manufacturer, a small manufacturer, maybe you've got less than 20 dealers. If you don't snuggle up and get comfortable with your top dealer or two, that's selling probably 50% of your. I mean, let's get real about it. From a small time manufacturer you probably got two or three dealers that do a really good job for you. The rest of them are probably making you very little money or spreading you thin. And right now I think a thing that's hurting the industry with the consignment piece is the amount of inventory that manufacturers are having to carry with interest rates being high. I think the interest rates are going to. If it's not already hurting you as a manufacturer, it's going to be hurting you. It's not going to get any better tomorrow.
SHED GEEK:What is the? What is the goal? Would the goal be for sales managers? And you know, like we're here, we are telling everybody how to do their job Right, and I always got to be careful about that. But I want good conversation. But what is the goal? Is the goal to have sales managers who are opening up?
SHED GEEK:I've experienced it as a sales manager. I've seen the quandaries of trying to open up a new manufacturer and it's almost like a trick. You know they feel like it's a trick. It's like you know you go in, you're trying to qualify a good location, but then you want a good, want a good salesperson too. And if they've got a primary business now, all of a sudden your business is secondary. So now imagine having a third-party rent-to-own company. That's that much further away from sort of the family atmosphere that you're talking about inside of Dayton Barnes. Sort of the family atmosphere that you're talking about inside of Dayton Barnes. Like now they, they don't care about the, the, the, the, the relationship with, maybe, the rent to own or the financing agency. It's kind of like, hey, that's their baby, their risk, I don't care. All I got to do is sell this thing, get my money, get my 10%. Yeah, what are you? What are your thoughts on that?
JARED LEDFORD:I think that we and again, I don't want to tell anybody how to do their job that is definitely not what we want to do here. I think the consternation in my voice is really a call to action and a challenge to look at yourself in the mirror and make sure that you can do an honest day's work for the money you make. Don't sell your manufacturing partner short Again. That manufacturer-dealer relationship has to be a tight one. It has to be something where there's trust on both sides of that fence, because I mean, unfortunately, and I can tell you, dealers fall way short on the measuring stick, and I don't think it's so much the manufacturers, it is the dealer, and I can say that with a clear conscience. We get a lot of that stuff here. We get a lot of well so-and-so told me this. Well, they're wrong. Unfortunately, this is the way it is, and if you'd like to buy a building from us, it's going to be eight weeks or less. But I can assure you that building steel know steel or otherwise will be on your property in eight weeks or less. And if not, I'm going to make a phone call and I can tell you very rarely do I make a phone call and something doesn't happen. But that's because I do what I say I'm going to do. I don't over-promise and under-deliver. I think that is such a bad look in our industry and it hurts everybody, you know, and we have to call that out for what it is. If you have someone in your area, find a way maybe to drop them. You know, I can tell you from my perspective. I don't have this issue with Sheds Direct. Okay, the Sheds Direct dealers around me all do a great job. I don't have no consternation whatsoever. But when we were with other, you know, conglomerate manufacturers, we had that issue all the time where somebody over here is selling the exact same product as me, making promises that just were not truthful. And I think that if you can lead from a position of look, this is what it is, I'm going to give you the very best price I can. I'm selling you a high-quality building. I'm going to get you the very best lead time I can. But this is just the reality of it. It takes time to get you the product. It's going to take time to produce the product. If it's a custom build, you're looking at probably a four weeks or less minimum. You know, set the customer up to be successful, and you'll never have to backtrack or look at yourself and say, well, I said something that wasn't true just to get a sale. And I think I mean I agree with you, Shannon. I think we are far too quick to want to collect a down payment and not pick up. You know, not pick up the phone when that customer calls back and says man, you know, it's been six weeks and you told me it only before. Well, you don't know what's going on the manufacturing side. There could be a problem with that customer's order. You might have put something down wrong on the order form. You never know what's going on. And I think that you know I don't have a background in portable buildings and metal buildings.
JARED LEDFORD:That's not where I came from. I was an automotive. I sold video games. My first, my first real job. I was a store manager at GameStop, you know, and I learned to grind hours. I learned to grind hours in retail and now that I'm doing it for myself and working for a company that I love and believe in and selling a product that I absolutely, I mean Shannon, you can attest to this. I love what I do and I think you should too. I think that everybody in this industry should love the opportunity. Consignment dealers are killing the industry. I don't think that that's the case. To answer the question again and make it clear as day I do think consignment dealers for metal might be, I mean, on a wood side. I think consignment dealers are necessary because you have physical product that's produced prior to install. You've got physical inventory that exists prior to install.
SHED GEEK:You know you've got physical inventory that exists.
SHED GEEK:I find, at least in my previous experience in my past. Um, what typically happens is, you know it's hard to go in and you're, you're looking for a location. As a sales manager, in most cases you're looking for a location because you're like hey, we want to grow in this service area. Uh, with this certain population density, hey, here's a high traffic area. You know what I mean. So let's look in this area.
SHED GEEK:Oh, this guy owns a body shop. Do you know that guy's past passion is, is to be a body shop owner. But he's got five acres that's sitting here, graveled or paved, and it's like, man, this would be really nice. So, we go in and we justify, because all of a sudden now it's like hey, we'll bring you 200,000 in inventory and you won't even have to do nothing. What's the catch? That's the great thing. There is no catch. All you gotta do is sale.
SHED GEEK:But I wonder how much. I wonder how much detail goes into like this business model. If you know and sometimes you get lucky Sometimes someone finds so much success in selling these sheds that they'll quit their body shop and they'll start selling sheds full time. You'll hear about a couple of stories like that and that's really amazing. And like that manufacturer would not want to give up that dealer for nothing because that dealer really invested into themselves and to their product. And then there are some that are like, hey, I'll, I'll hit some, you know some reasonable numbers, or I'll hit one to 2 million. And then there's always those guys that you know, the, the, the dealerships wonder, and the manufacturers wonder. And you know, did I make a mistake? They're, they're, they're trouble to deal with, they're hard to deal with and they don't have no leverage. Because, like, hey, they're hard to deal with and they don't have no leverage. Because like, hey, you came to me, if you don't like it, leave.
SHED GEEK:And now what happens is they get just invested in the industry, enough to be like I'll just call a competition, they're going to bring me some free buildings and I think that's the hard part is, and then that manufacturer is all too ready to go bring them some, because it's kind of like oh, my rival couldn't take care of you, but we're going to take care of you and we'll make all these big promises and we'll get as many sales as we can until you move to the next manufacturer.
JARED LEDFORD:And I think from I think from that perspective, you know, I and I stress, I don't think it's killing the industry, I don't think it's helping it.
SHED GEEK:Yeah, I agree, and I don't either, and I think that you know I feel like I posed the question the wrong way.
JARED LEDFORD:No, no. I think that the question is a fair question. Does it make the industry better? I think that's probably the question really is does consignment dealers make the industry, the shed industry, the shed business, better as a whole? And the answer to that question is clearly no, because it brings people in that have no skin in the game to learn it or make it better. And we should be acquiring talent, not diluting the talent just to get buildings out there. And I think that that's one thing that manufacturers are going to have to quit right now is you're not going to be able to have several million dollars in inventory when interest rates are 10, 11, 12, 13%. It ain't going to happen. I mean, you are going to end up. You're going to end up in a world of hurt, I mean. And then again, to challenge the dealers to understand you know, why won't they raise my dealer commission? You know, even if you're the top dealer, why won't they do this?
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JARED LEDFORD:There's an economic scale involved here, when you know everybody is feeling the pinch, everybody's feeling the wallet tighten up a little bit and it's not a political issue, it's just a economics issue. You know you can take the politics clean out of it. If the interest rates are high, spending is probably going to be down. People are going to be tightening up that pocketbook. They're going to be tightening up that wallet. They're going to be looking at it from a perspective of well, can I afford to put gas in my car? I can't afford a new shed this week. That's why RTO is popular. That's why financing is popular. And if you're not utilizing financing and RTO, this is a plug. You need to be doing it. You need to be offering financing to every customer. You need to be offering RTO to every customer. People want to make payments. I can tell you from my perspective. I think what you just said, Shannon, with the dilution of the quality of the person who sells the shed, is probably my biggest gripe. I don't like going up against the body shop guy, because this is what I did. I mean, you know Eric and I. Eric started the business. Eric sold me a metal building. That's how I started at Dayton Barnes, so let me give you my viewpoint from a perspective of Eric was the best salesman I could have ever asked for in the space and he loved his job so much. He would follow up with me like every three months. Man, how's the building? Did you happen to share it with anybody? He would. He would constantly follow up and what I found was I was sending him leads and I was making him money and I got to be like one of Eric's very best friends because Jared was constantly sending Eric money and you know, one day he's like man, he's like. You know, I was doing some online work at home and I was just kind of doing my own thing. And then COVID hit Right and I'd been in a Honda dealership for about 10 years, loved what, I was just kind of doing my own thing. And then COVID hit right and I'd been in a Honda dealership for about 10 years, Loved what I was doing there. I was a shop foreman, I was the boss, I loved it, had a cake schedule, I was working like seven to three. It was great.
JARED LEDFORD:And COVID hit and Eric called me. He said man, why don't you try selling metal buildings with me? And I said, no, you know, no, I'll just keep sending you the leads. You know, every once in a while he dropped me a gift card or something in the mail and sure enough, you know, I took a leap with them and I'm so glad I did.
JARED LEDFORD:And look at what we've done with this business together. I was an outsider, I knew nothing about it, Right, and that dealer relationship with one customer. We've done like $25 million in metal buildings the last three years. That's a lot of impact that one single purchase can make. Now I'm not saying that every single customer that comes on your doorstep is going to be like me. They're not going to love you, they're not going to absolutely want to be your friend. But I can tell you, Eric went over and above and he was an above average dealer. He was one in a million find and he found a one in a million guy on the other end and that's my story, right, I gave up my full-time gig. I could have went back. I gave it up. I said you know what I like, what I'm doing over here a lot better.
JARED LEDFORD:I love the industry, I love all the people. Like I said, I can't think of one person off the top of my head and I've had some rough convos. I can tell you I can't think of anybody that I don't wish well, that I don't hope has the best sales month they've ever had and I don't think it's necessarily meant to be negative. It's meant to be a call to action and a challenge.
SHED GEEK:We can make the industry better. My favorite thing here to say lately is something I read on Facebook, because I've had several of those bad experiences too and I can still wish people well. And I read this on Facebook. I like to tell people hey, we're in the shed industry, we're not in gangs, I do not have to like, hate you or your brand or anything I can still wish you well, even if we've had a bad experience.
SHED GEEK:And I do wish you well doesn't mean that you're invited to the barbecue, just means that's right. I wish you well.
JARED LEDFORD:We want, but we want good for our industry I attract a lot more flies with honey than I do with vinegar and I can tell you I talk up my competition. I'm the guy that says you know what, they've got such and such down here. You know we've got a custom builder that does a lot of onsites about 45 minutes away and he's gone away from dealers. But I can tell you as far as you know an hour, if you take an hour span from any one of my locations, that guy makes an awesome, awesome shed. And you know what, when I get up against a customer that's like you know, I want one foot overhangs, I want 18 feet wide. You know, all these things that are immediately like well, can't do that. I'm not necessarily going to go to that customer and say you know what, you'd be better off going with a 14 wide, blah, blah, blah. I'll just say go over to this guy and I can tell you he sent me a lot of metal building business.
JARED LEDFORD:Having those relationships with people in your area aren't going to necessarily hurt you. They're going to benefit you in the long run. He does a lot of custom onsite buildings and stuff. He's never going to care about an eight by 10 economy something. He'll send them my way, or he's never going to care about a tubular steel metal building Cause he doesn't do that, I do, and now I'm his guy and we've probably shared probably at least a dozen leads between the two of us. And again, legions, everything. If you can base your business on good Legion, you will sell buildings, as long as you can sell.
SHED GEEK:Yeah, keep the pipeline full. That's the, that's the key to sales In most cases. Just keep that pipeline full. You're going to get your close ratio, but you gotta have them knocking.
SHED GEEK:And I think the old way of just hiring a retired guy who's probably one of the best guys ever, probably somebody that you want to hang out with, but just hiring a retired guy that just come in and said a lot, now sell, somebody comes in. I won't if they don't I think that's probably a little bit more of the way of the past and not necessarily the way of the future. I think somebody who's coming in, who's developing a digital storefront, having a social presence, having an understanding of the sales process and the sales cycle, and attempting to figure that out while being able to remain personable, like not losing yourself to the allure of Grant Cordone, or something like that, nothing wrong with it. Grant does a great job more successful than I am, I'm just saying and I love some of his stuff. But you know, find, find your, find your place, find sort of your place, I'm curious about that Go ahead.
SHED GEEK:Well, I'm almost curious about like man, I don't know me and you can talk for hours because what? What happens when I talk to you and this is the frustrating thing is I end up having so many questions fill my head that I don't get a chance to write down, because the conversation you're giving me back is thought provoking, and if I'm just in my head. But I always enjoy talking to you because it challenges me to the way that I think about stuff too, and I think that's why the conversations are always so rich.
JARED LEDFORD:Same. I mean I can say that the same for me. I mean I think from my perspective it's hard to jump off what you just said about hiring a retired guy. You know, if you're a manufacturer and you're doing relatively good business, you have to look at a key sales figure as the most important person in your infrastructure period. I worked in a car dealership for a long time and I absolutely can tell you I believe, that automotive service drives an automotive dealership. They call it fixed operations for a reason because you can set your watch by the amount of revenue that your service department will turn you.
JARED LEDFORD:But if you're not selling cars out the front to get them serviced in the back, you're going to end up dying a slow death. And I can tell you, car salesmen made significantly more than top level master technicians. And there's a reason. You car salesmen made significantly more than top-level master technicians. And there's a reason for that Because salesmen have to drive, drive, drive the business. The sales drives the business. To produce 40 more sheds, you need to sell 25 up front. If you just produce 40 sheds in the back and you sell five up front, you got an inventory problem then. Then you're sitting on inventory. That is costing you money a job that they are not prepared to do. How can you expect anything less than a lower quality result than what you really get? You're setting yourself up to fail.
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JARED LEDFORD:You know, for somebody who does eat, sleep and breathe sheds and metal buildings, I can tell you there are so few people out there who care about it even a little bit and I would challenge you to look at the people that you have in your team. You know your lot managers. You know if you're a manufacturer who is subletting, maybe you've got, maybe you pay for your lot rentals, oh my goodness. So now, on top of everything else, you're oh my gosh, you're, you've got a independent contractor at a lot. Maybe empower that person.
JARED LEDFORD:Maybe find a, you know, an entrepreneurial mind like me who can say you know, find a younger guy who's willing to put up that $2,000 a month for that lot rent. That, right off the bat, might be able to give him a better commission if he's covering his lot rent. When I found that out that there were manufacturers out there that were paying for rent on lots I was like man, I'm doing this wrong. And I can tell you from a manufacturing perspective, there are people out there like me who I'm in a 3,500 square foot building right now. You know I've got 35 sheds within a 30 second walk of my presence, but I pay for that.
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JARED LEDFORD:And nobody pays for that. For me, you know, and I've done that since the beginning, you know, eric, eric really pioneered that and we do get comfortable dealer commissions, but on the on the wood, wood side, we're in the same kind of 10 10 vote as everybody else. I mean, we can't command. You know, if you're sitting back thinking, well that's. You know, Jared can sit back on his high horse because he's making probably 20. I'm making the same as everybody else. I'm not getting any special treatment right now and that's the. The thing at the end of the day is everybody plays in the same sandbox, the same playground. It's just how you play the game that's going to set you apart from everybody else uh, it's always so interesting, man.
SHED GEEK:Uh, you, like I said, I'm, I'm rich for thought on the conversations, because it makes me want to have more conversations, more podcast I feel, like we could just talk for a long time. Um, we didn't even really get into a lot.
JARED LEDFORD:We got to make it a regular thing. Man, we got to make it a regular thing. I got some ideas. Get some mailbox going. I'd love to hear the feedback. I want the feedback good, bad or indifferent I'd love to see it.
SHED GEEK:Well, let's start this. We may have a conversation off air that I really want to talk with you about. Let's start this. For people who want to contact you, who want to get a hold of you, where's the best way to reach you?
JARED LEDFORD:Jared DaytonBarnes. com is my email. I'm on LinkedIn. I really love LinkedIn. I have a pretty strong presence on LinkedIn. If you're not on LinkedIn, I would encourage you to get on there. It's Jared Ledford, just like it says on the backdrop. Feel not on LinkedIn. I would encourage you to get on there. But it's Jared Ledford, just like it says on the backdrop, and feel free to hit me up at the Barnes If you have questions or want to get into the industry. Maybe you're just starting out. We've got a metal building program If anybody's looking to become a metal building dealer and wants to do it with as little impact to your business as possible. It's not something that we advertise or really care to grow, but if you're the right person, I'd love to talk to you about it. I love the industry and if I can be of service to somebody else, I can tell you I'd love to do that, so that's how to get ahold of me.
SHED GEEK:Well, so many more things we need to talk about we didn't even address really getting into the details of the online sales program, getting into the detail of trade and trade organization. I gave you a shout out in my most recent uh, shed business journal article, which should be out by the time this podcast comes out. So, I don't want to ruin it, but, uh, I just threw a little plug in there that you were one of the people and I wish it was my idea, but I wasn't, it was yours. And the one thing I like about you as a serial entrepreneur is you're maybe a bit like me that you're never short on ideas.
SHED GEEK:For a lot of people, you know, the creativity seems to be a bit of a struggle and I'm like, no, for me it's the systems, process and implementation. I have to have someone there on the back end sort of helping ideas or dime a dozen, it's. It's how do you put the right people in the right places to make things work? Uh, this is why I'm a stressor, Jared, and uh, we'll sign off with this. But I'm a stressor because, uh, I like to make this joke all the time.
SHED GEEK:I say if we were in a plane uh, plane going down, everyone would be screaming and shouting and hollering and me, I feel like I would be the guy who would be like I didn't see this coming. You know, I mean this is, I didn't see this coming, but there's nothing I can do about it. So why do I stress things I can do nothing about? I don't stress at all things I can do something about. I stress big time the day-to-day operations making sure communications flowing effectively, having a fallout with someone, that's uncomfortable those are all the things that are stress points for me. Uh, but, but you know, like um, who's going to be president? I mean, I know my vote counts one and how many, you know. It's kind of like I don't know you have some influence and and like I try to, I try to be educated. Uh, you know, but I take a minimalistic approach at this point in my life towards those things. Um, that's right.
JARED LEDFORD:Control what you can control.
SHED GEEK:Yeah, that's right. Control what you can control yeah, that's right. That's where I'm at in my life, at least at this point, and those things do stress me because I want to be able to do them well and have good relationships. And that's really hard, especially after this podcast. We're four years in now, 270 episodes, over 300 000 listens, or they're about 250 to 300 I'd have to get the calculator out to look at it but I'm thankful for everybody who does listen to give us a voice in this industry. So, and I want to figure out what it's going to look like for the next four. You know, like I don't know how long can I do this? Uh, as long as people listen, if we bring you good content.
SHED GEEK:With folks like Jared I don't know if you guys enjoy him as much as I do, but every time we talk, my mind goes into this distracted mode now for the rest of the day, where I'm chewing on some of the thoughts and I, if you're, if the audience is receiving that Jared, that's what we want. It's why we do this um, full transparency. And we're an hour and five in. It's kind of crazy, uh, how it goes. But um, any questions you have for me full transparency. I put it all out there on the table, man. Uh, podcasting finance, rent on marketing.
JARED LEDFORD:You know shed, no, brother, I think you name it I think I think maybe from a metal building guy you know how do we bridge the two, right. How do we make metal buildings and sheds. You know we've been to the trade, right. How do we make metal buildings and sheds. You know we've been to the trade expos, right. You know they try to put us together and you know that's what we've been trying to figure out. Right Is how do we, how do we make metal buildings and wood sheds synergy, to make it to where it's not necessarily a separate industry anymore and it doesn't need to be this competition either.
JARED LEDFORD:I knew that's where you were going to go with it, Shane.
SHED GEEK:It's absolutely terrible. You read my mind.
JARED LEDFORD:Metal building and shed synergy. I think that's probably where I want to find that harmony, because I love it so much and I have a hard time cutting myself away from man. I got to focus on metal buildings today, but, man, I really love wood sheds. I really love wood sheds and versa. There's a synergy to be found somewhere. Maybe elaborate on how you feel about that as we close out.
SHED GEEK:Well, so many, so many thoughts obviously come to mind. They, they do things totally different. Of course, the shed, in most cases, are prefab and then the buildings are metal. Buildings are on side and that's one thing that we've run into. That's somewhat troublesome, even in the rto space, you know, I wonder why some of the manufacturers aren't interested in the, in the, in the pickup or the repo process or resale process of that. That's kind of uh, because we've had to like curtail around that. You know, um, you know, good old buyback program will go a long way, but it seems like the, the metal manufacturers, operate a little differently.
SHED GEEK:With that being said, there's shed manufacturers that are also in metal manufacturing and at some point, you know, you start getting into roll formers and you, you know you're. So, you're so big that you're like hey, now we're selling metal, so we're a roofing metal dealer and we started out as a shed guy or building trusses or who knows what else. Um, and a lot of that's got to do with like, a lot of these things do overlap. I mean, with a shed, you've pretty much got two products in it. You got metal and wood. You know, it's either hardware or it's wood, and with metal buildings it's. It's all aluminum and metal, right? So, uh, you know you're selling a lot of the same products. So, when you get big enough that you can go spend a million bucks on a row former, can you get a row former for a million anymore? I don't know.
ADVERTISEMENT:But you know, you know you.
SHED GEEK:Next thing you know you're producing all your metal for your sheds, so you're able to expand that, that that territory. As far as bringing the two together more, yeah, I mean I love the idea because they're similar products. There are some shed manufacturers who actually don't want those things sold on there, and this is a whole other conversation. But I don't even know how you dictate that if you're hiring an independent contractor, and I don't even know why people who are coming on don't even understand that they're an independent contractor.
JARED LEDFORD:That's a conversation we definitely need to have. We need to pencil that in for next time, Because that's something that I have a lot to speak to and I can tell you from personal experiences. The things I bring into. I can tell you, you know, I don't know why you wouldn't, and what I would say is maybe my closeout to again challenge the manufacturers on the shed side. You got to look at it from a revenue perspective. You can make way more money selling metal buildings than wood sheds. Don't care, I mean, it's just a fact and if you're going to hold back top people like me, those are the people you want selling your wood sheds. We sell a lot of wood sheds and a lot of metal buildings and we love doing it, and I think that there is a really good place for.
JARED LEDFORD:Both.
SHED GEEK:I think the question for the manufacturer is if that's the rules of engagement, so to speak, you know, then maybe you should consider being vertically integrated, you know and owning.
SHED GEEK:You know, take the McDonald's, you know, take the McDonald's, you know, uh, uh attitude and start buying the property, hire people, put them on a W-2 and say we dictate the nature of the sales and the business. But as long as you hire a W-2, I mean a 1099, you know. But some, you know, folks just don't want to argue. Jared, let's call it what it is. Folks don't want to argue, they don't want to be in difficult situations and they don't want difficult business relationships. I find that most people are still good. I know we hear the news and all of this stuff that's going on and we seemingly live in a fallen world. But I mean, the truth is, most people I meet are pretty good in nature, you know, and they don't want to argue. So they're just kind of like well, I don't know. If you're going to bring me 60 sheds, fine, I won't sell anything and you'll just give up your value that quick. I mean a consignment, as a consignment dealer, they need you. I mean they'll go find someone else. Sure, but they but they need you and they need that person, even if they go find someone else. So I'm not telling you to resist, because that's terrible. Like you don't is know your worth. Know your worth and, as a manufacturer, know your worth because, like, honestly, if you want to be vertically integrated, you can go a lot further. Whenever you're you're paying for lot rent for 15 different places, like, why are you being held captive by your dealer also? So I mean, this goes the other way too, because I see dealers who try to hold them captive, like, hey, I sell a million a year. You know you're gonna have to deal with me and it's you know at's. You know at what point. You know at what point, I don't know.
SHED GEEK:There's a lot of conversation here that we need to explore and I'm really slow at dragging these conversations out because obviously I don't want to upset anybody. But, man, good, hard, difficult, meaningful conversations uh, lead to audience participation and engagement. So, like, we want to talk about things that are that are, um, not controversial, but things that are hard conversations to have, and Jared, you're always one to have it with because you do it with class, and I appreciate that. I better go, because it's an hour 10 in, or else I'm gonna have to make this a two-part conversation, but we are gonna have to do a two-part matter of fact. I got some other thoughts and, if you don't care, let's wrap this up and then maybe, uh, let's chat once we get the recording off here.
SHED GEEK:Um sounds good, always enjoy the conversation. It always it's always thought-provoking. So thank you guys for listening today. Jared, thanks for being on.