Shed Geek Podcast
The Shed Geek Podcast offers an in depth analysis of the ever growing and robust Shed Industry. Listeners will experience a variety of guests who identify or specialize in particular niche areas of the Shed Industry. You will be engaged as you hear amateur and professional personalities discuss topics such as: Shed hauling, sales, marketing, Rent to Own, shed history, shed faith, and much more. Host Shannon Latham is a self proclaimed "Shed Geek" who attempts to take you through discussions that are as exciting as the industry itself. Listeners of this podcast include those who play a role directly or indirectly with the Shed Industry itself.
Shed Geek Podcast
Empowering Shed Dealers Through Creative Finance
Join us for an engaging conversation with Joel Oney, affectionately known as "J Money," and his dynamic colleague Katelyn, as they recount their fascinating transition from banking to pioneering financial solutions in the shed industry. Learn how Joel's rich background in finance spurred the creation of J Money, a company that's shaking up the market by meeting the unique needs of shed dealers and consumers. Katelyn shares her passion for tiny homes and the pivotal role of networking, making connections that not only forged their partnership but also brought fresh perspectives to the evolving world of sheds.
Discover the secrets to becoming a successful shed dealer as we explore strategies for enhancing customer experiences and investing in trade knowledge. With insights from a recent Shed Business Journal article, we emphasize the power of good communication and the advantages of innovative financing options offered by J Money. We'll unravel the distinctions between traditional rent-to-own models and alternative financing solutions, showing how these tailored options attract a diverse customer base and align with J Money's mission of providing reliable and progressive solutions.
The conversation takes a deeper dive into the challenges and opportunities within shed financing, particularly for customers with varying credit scores. Joel and Katelyn address the complexities faced by customers with lower credit scores and discuss potential pathways to greater financial inclusivity. As we wrap up, we invite you to connect with Shed Geek Finance and J Money, showcasing their dedication to elevating shed sales and fostering industry growth.
For more information or to know more about the Shed Geek Podcast visit us at our website.
Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube at the handle @shedgeekpodcast.
To be a guest on the Shed Geek Podcast visit our website and fill out the "Contact Us" form.
To suggest show topics or ask questions you want answered email us at info@shedgeek.com.
This episodes Sponsors:
Studio Sponsor: Union Grove Lumber
RTO Smart
LuxGuard
My Shed
Shed Hub
Digital Shed Builder
Okay, welcome back to another episode of the Shed Geek podcast. Excited to be doing an episode here on a Monday I usually save these for Friday but just couldn't wait to get to it. We were trying to get to it before the expo. It didn't work out, but I'll tell you what. Let's just. Let's start with Joel and maybe give me a 30 second, one minute commercial of who you are and when you're finished, Kaitlin, if you want to jump in there too, and then we'll hop to it. Joel, welcome to the show.
Joel Oney:Yeah, thanks for having us, Shannon. I'm Joel Oney. I'm the owner of J Money, and a lot of people wonder where the name J Money comes from, and it's actually my nickname for when I was in banking for about 25 years. My middle initial is M and my last name is Oney and I would sign my name J M Oney and it, just over the years, became J Money and it, just over the years, became J Money, and so when we were seeking a name for our company it took us about 30 seconds we said, yeah, let's just use the nickname and be done with it. We didn't do any market research or brand research or anything like that, we just used it.
Joel Oney:I was in banking for 25 years, grew up on a farm in northern Ohio and had an older brother who became the farmer in the family, so I had to find something else to do in life and so I went into banking and then started this business about four years ago, and we provide all kinds of financial service solutions for home improvement contractors, but mostly folks in the shed industry.
Shed Geek:Nice, great, great commercial. It sounds like you've had to say that a time or two.
Joel Oney:We've been asked a couple of times what the heck we do, and so you know we've gotten pretty good at it.
Shed Geek:All good, Katelyn, how do you know the shed industry? What's your story? Let's find out a little bit more about you.
Katelyn Spears:Yeah, thanks for having me. I just started out with Joel, probably about six months ago, so I will work with just assisting him and getting our new merchant signed up, and before that I worked at a small credit union for about two years, so nothing like his 25 years in banking, but I actually work remotely down in Huntington West Virginia banking. But I actually work remotely down in Huntington West Virginia and my little side gig I've built a few tiny homes that I'm renting out right there on campus.
Shed Geek:That's pretty awesome. I don't know why all of this time I didn't realize you were in in Huntington. I love going through there. I used to travel to East Kentucky a lot, so it would be around the like the Grayson area, like right there on the border, and just jump over into to West Virginia. Um, yeah, always like traveling through there. Go over and see my buddy, Dave Miller, five star, he's down, uh, he's down pretty close to you guys. So, um well, hey, listen, uh, and I'm excited to have you guys on the show.
Shed Geek:We've been talking about it for a while. I would almost like talk about immediately like this is a relationship that is harvested in the potential of networking and just building education on your trade, and what I mean by that is, Joel, we met at a trade show. We met because we were networking, talking, trying to figure out how to help others, which ultimately helps yourself. It's developed into this nice relationship because we were networking, talking, trying to figure out how to help others, which ultimately helps yourself. It's developed into this nice relationship that is very comfortable. And, Katelyn, I do want to get into the tiny home thing. So, we're going to come back there because I'm curious about that. But I'll start first by saying, Joel, you couldn't have hired anybody any better. Katelyn has been an absolute rock star and every time that I have dealt with her in any capacity, she's been awesome.
Joel Oney:Yeah, I would second that she is a fantastic individual. We sat down next to each other actually at a 4-H fundraiser Both of us involved heavily in 4-H. It's a great program for youth all across the country. But we got to talking and gosh, I just all but hired her right on the spot because you know, you don't come across those really fantastic individuals very often, and so when you do, you have to do it with them.
Joel Oney:I would put you in that in that same group as well. Shannon, you know, you and I uh got to know each other over several conversations at some trade shows and uh really appreciate the opportunity to be, you know, working with Well, I'm, I'm excited, so I feel blessed to have the opportunity and basically, um, where that kind of started, we'll touch base on that and then we can.
Shed Geek:We can maybe dive a little bit deeper into some other, some other areas, um, but basically where that started was like you guys were providing, you know, financial, uh, uh, incentives for shed companies, companies that go beyond the shed, because nowadays it is beyond the shed, right, it seems like it's not just a shed storage provider 10 by 16 shed or something like that. They moved into 16 by 40s, now you've got post frame, now you've got, I mean, those things have been around, don't get me wrong, but it's that the shed person. When you think of a shed personality, they've kind of morphed into in many cases, not an all-in-one solution, but at least an attempt at that at some dealer locations.
Joel Oney:Yes, that's right, and as the shed industry evolved, we could quickly see that there was a need for some additional products in space, and we started off, you know, a little bit by accident. I think that's the way a lot of good things start off. Many times, you're just trying to help somebody and next thing you know you've got a business that you created out of it. After I was coming away from the banking world and seeking to start a business of my own, I was helping some of my Amish friends with some financing solutions for their sheds, and the rent-to-own is really where we started.
Joel Oney:I could quickly see that there was a need for some things that were above and beyond the rent-to-own space, whether it was just buildings that were getting larger and needed something with a longer term, or maybe they were buildings that didn't fit rent-to-own just because they were being built on site, or whole buildings that we talked about, whole spring buildings, those kinds of things. Pull buildings that we talked about, pull spring buildings, those kinds of things. And so that's how we evolved into providing just a loan solution An unsecured loan, basically, is what we do for the sheds now, and so that just provides a whole lot more flexibility as far as longer terms things provides a whole lot more flexibility. As far as longer terms things, much of a need for the rent to own in the shed industry, for sure, but this is that fills some of those gaps for customers that can't have their needs met by a rent-to-own product well, and that that's what kind of led to our conversation.
Shed Geek:Uh, you know, we, we and you're I feel like you're telling my story. You know we started the podcast for the purpose of not making money or having any business, but to help, to help increase communication, to interview people. We were already traveling one place to the next and it was like you know, why not, why not record this and put it out? I mean, there's like good conversation here among you know, just people in the industry and I think other people can like learn from that. And next thing, you know people are asking to sell advertisement on it or you know other opportunities open up. Now we're full-scale marketing rent to own and that's why we're partnering with j money is to help provide that finance, that unsecured finance extension, that leg through Shed Geek, if we can, and bring our listening base to the table, which hopefully, by the time this comes out, the website will be finished and they can just go on and click on a lead form on the website and ask about more information. But you guys can always reach me at info at shedgeek. com. But let's get. Let's get to the reason of like why, to me, rent owned so competitive in this space. It is really, really competitive it it's just. Maybe it didn't seem that way five or ten years ago, maybe it wasn't, I didn't notice, but it begs the question, Joel and Katelyn, when is finance going to enter the picture?
Shed Geek:Everyone's always looking for another solution for their customer. They want to be able to provide them, in their eyes, a building at a lower cost. Essentially so, cash is king. If you can't pay cash, get a loan, you know. And if not, you know, rent to own typically serves its purpose, and there's all different reasons why people decide to purchase, why and how they purchase. But yeah, just curious, like you saw that need, you saw that space. What's been your experience so far?
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Joel Oney:We just heard our dealers and manufacturers saying, hey, we need something for these other things, or maybe we've got someone with a really good credit score but they are going to leave a lot and try to find a loan someplace, or we've got these buildings that have gotten so large or we're building them on site.
Joel Oney:So, there was just a variety of things that weren't fitting the rent to own. So, I put on my banker executive cap that I had from a few years previously and kind of searched the face of the planet to find some solutions. And there's really a lot of folks that have tried to work in this space with an unsecured consumer loan. Those solutions have had just a variety of challenges, whether or not it's just finding a single source, whether it's a fast, easy platform, something that you can work easily into your sales process while you're sitting there with a customer, all those things, fees that are involved just a whole variety of things. So we had a checklist of about 10 or 12 items that we felt like were must-haves when we went to provide something for the marketplace and in the end found some FinTech partners and really have kind of narrowed it down to one FinTech partner that we believe is really the right fit for the industry and can do all the things that we wanted to do on that list of 10 or 12 things.
Shed Geek:Yeah, that's awesome. Well, it's been great. Katelyn, what do you feel like has been your experience since moving away from the credit union into this world of? Sheds and structures and all of that good stuff.
Katelyn Spears:Yeah, I wasn't too familiar with, you know, the shed world before six months ago and I've learned a lot over these past few months and, like you said, I didn't know how competitive RTO was. You know, I just assumed maybe it was one thing. But as we went to the trade show, you know, last month, and as we've met all of these different businesses, I've realized just how many places out there offer the RTO. So, I think we've found this specific niche where that, where that gap in between RTO and cash and you know we're not really competing with RTO, you know we're working right there alongside it just to bring all the customers to the table.
Shed Geek:Yeah, I agree, and, and after having been a dealer for years, you know if you're, if you're like, I just wrote an article for the shed business journal, so that should be out probably by the time this comes out uh, where it's talking about trade. So, I won't give too much away, but just in case. But talking about trade, and I won't give too much away, but just in case, but talking about trade, and, uh, our specific trade, and I know if you're a shed dealer, like that's the one thing that you're looking for all the time, as you're investing in your trade, investing in knowledge, information and more is how do I help my customer? At the end of the day, it's how do I help my customer get something that's more affordable, something that's simple to use, right, so you're not spending a whole lot of time there going through the process.
Shed Geek:Now, joe, I think it would be good to get into the conversation of the application, to some extent, of becoming a dealer. You know, like, why it's important for us to go through. You guys have probably seen my emails. It's important for us to go through. You guys have probably seen my emails and the one thing I say and the shed industry is going to laugh at me for saying this because I mention it so often is hey, if you reach out, guys answer your phone, answer emails and I'm the world's worst to be preaching this right now, as busy as I've been lately but answer your phone, answer your emails, good communication, like we want to work with you, want to help you. But take this investment in your trade to a whole new level by partnering with folks like J money, whether you do that through shed geek or not, but take it serious as an approach to helping out your customer, cause I've searched and there is not a better program in the industry doing what you guys do.
Joel Oney:Yeah, we spend a lot of time really looking and some others have done some things that have been admirable, I think, in the shed financing space with consumer loans and it's not to take anything away.
Joel Oney:I think that it's just that the source and the specific platform that we use source of funding, the mechanisms, the way it all works as far as the funds going directly to the dealer or manufacturer, some of those kinds of things really set aside, set apart what we're bringing to the industry and you know it's something that is fairly streamlined. As far as the sign-up process, Katie manages that whole process really well. Katie manages that whole process really well. There is a process that a person goes through to get approved to utilize that financing, just because any contractor has to hit certain credentials in order to be able to utilize it. But Katie makes that process really easy and handles things really smoothly, really smoothly. As far as the signup process and you know, if any of your viewers wanted more information, Shannon, they could reach out to you and you could hook them up with us and be glad to take them through what you know, a 30-minute demo or something like that, where they could see how the process works and how it could maybe potentially help their business.
Joel Oney:Yeah, we started off trying to help people find ways to get sheds and to sell sheds and this is where we ended up.
Shed Geek:I think it's great and I can attest to the like I said. The professionalism for Katie, she, she makes me question my own ability to ability to follow up with people. So that's really great. I think she does, she does great and excellent communicator. And Joel, like honestly everybody there, the team has just been excellent in the adventure so far. And, hey, we want to bring on a whole bunch more. We want more people to, because people are looking for this. Like, at the end of the day, manufacturers and dealers are looking for this.
Shed Geek:Rent-to-own has ruled the roost, so to speak, for so long. That's my little pun on your logo there in the background. I'm not a comedian, guys, don't put me on stage, that's all I'm saying. Don't put me up there, but it has. It's ruled the roost for a long time and we're involved in RTO so we sort of understand what it is. But at the end of the day, I think shed dealers and manufacturers, they want this. It's maybe even a different type of customer. Let's talk about that. What type of customer does come in looking for, you know, finance versus rent-own even?
Joel Oney:yeah, it's a really good question and maybe I'll back up to the logo for just a minute because we do have a logo that probably we took a little more time to think about our logo than we did about our name, so maybe I can tell you just a little bit about what's behind that. Obviously, it's fashioned after a weather vane, which has historically been something that you would see on top of a barn or a shed or something like that. So that part of it's pretty obvious. Our colors, the deep, dark, burnt red, go along with the traditional color of barns, being red barns, and at least in our part of the world, which is Ohio, we do go nationwide with our products, but we're based in Ohio. Most of the barns around here are either white or red, so we like that red color, but also just even some things that are a little bit more, I guess, maybe below the surface. The arrow points to the right. At least I hope it's pointing to the right. You know, with the zoom things are turned around backwards, but on our logo it's pointing to the right. It means it's pointing forward. It's always moving forward, just like our company always moving forward, trying to find great solutions for folks. And I kind of like the rooster. We have a rooster at the farm across the road from us. You know the symbolism of the rooster. They get up every morning before everybody else and they call out to the world and say hey, you know, we're ready to go, and so we like some of the symbolism behind our logo. So we did put a little more thought into that, I suppose, than just the name.
Joel Oney:Your question about customers is a good one. How many times, Shannon, when you were selling sheds, did a customer say you know what? I've got a pretty good credit score. I'm not sure that I want to do this rent to own, but I'm also not sure that I want to come off my cash. I think I'm going to go to the bank and see if I can get a loan. Or I'm not sure that I want to do this rent to own, but I'm also not sure that I want to come off my cash. I think I'm going to go to the bank and see if I can get a loan, or I'm going to go see if I can get the financing elsewhere. And they walk off your lot and you never saw them again.
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Shed Geek:Yeah, too often, unfortunately.
Joel Oney:Yeah, yeah, if you didn't have that solution right there and that's really the kind of person that is great for this is someone who maybe has the ability to get a loan, but you don't want to get off your lot to go get a loan. So, you have a solution right there that you can work right into your sales process.
Joel Oney:And we really coach the manufacturers and dealers, their salespeople, to start off by offering the payment right up front. And the reason being is that, whether that person has good credit, bad credit, cash, customer, whatever, they may be thinking in the back of their mind, how am I going to pay for this thing? They might be thinking, oh yeah, I love all the features. I really like this red barn over here and I like the roll-up door on it and the extra windows. They might be thinking all of that, but in the back of their mind they might be thinking, how am I going to pay for this? Or maybe I've got the cash to pay for it, but we also have tuition to pay this fall, we have Christmas coming up, I know I need to buy Junior a new car, et cetera, et cetera.
Joel Oney:There's all these other things that might be demands on your cash, and so the sooner, the earlier in that sales process that one of the dealers has the opportunity to dispel that concern, to take that off the table and say, okay, here's a payment plan that works for folks that have decent to good credit. Would you like to take a look at this? Decent to good credit, would you like to take a look at this and that keeps that customer from walking off the lot, helps you to close deal. That's really where this fits in.
Shed Geek:Yeah, the whole idea is to offer a solution in that impulsive moment. If they want to go home, think about it, do all that good stuff and you're unable to close them in that moment, that's fine. But if they go to the bank, there's just a. It doesn't take much distraction for a consumer. You know oftentimes you know so like if you can just offer a solution for them right then in the moment. Simple, easy user interface. You know, good training. That's the one thing that I've noticed. It's been super imperative. It's like the, the, the manufacturer who goes through the application, and the and the trouble to submit the necessary paperwork to become, uh, a user of the program. Um, they get good training, they understand it well, they can explain things to their customers and I I think a lot of it starts right there in that education bubble. Um, because I've I don't know, at least I've been saying for some time now whether I'm right or wrong I feel like the public school system doesn't really spend the amount of time necessary to help explain the details of, like, finances or money management in any way shape or form. And while rent owns an excellent program for someone who wants to jump into the rental option, for someone who doesn't have cash but wants to lower the overall cost of the structure. The overall cost of the structure, you can sign up and get an interest rate. But that interest rate now comes with some caveat right Like an asterisk there. That's like hey, it's no longer just anyone's available. Now we're going to base this off your debt to income, your credit history, all of that good stuff.
Shed Geek:And I think there's a lot of customers that don't realize that, as they're renting a shed, that it's just that it's that they're renting it. They're not purchasing it, they're not, they're not building equity in it, it's not going on their credit, it doesn't help nor hurt. And I don't know how much the dealer is taking the time to spend educating them, cause I don't know that. You know they want to. They want to move the the shed, you know. So that's the biggest important thing for them. So, they're not. They're like hey, listen, I'm not a college professor, I'm not trying to educate someone on their buying habits and all of this. I want to. I want to get this thing moved, so let's get it rented today. Um, but for the dealers and manufacturers that take a little different approach, that really want to educate the consumer, make sure that they understand the process and how it works. That's really the the option that J money provides.
Joel Oney:Well, yeah, and Katie, I'll let you address your. Your closer to have been in school longer than Shannon and I both, so you might address the part about whether or not there's much as far as financial literacy being taught in the school system today. But as far as the rent to own, I will never disparage the rent to own effect. That's where we started off at, because the rent to own is just exactly what you said. It's a rental payment, right? And if somebody needs to rent some storage space, if you go to rent a storage unit in town at one of these big storage facilities, you might pay on that for five years and you've got nothing at the end of the day and you've got to drive over there to pick it up, versus a shed that's in your back lawn, that at the end of four or five years you might own that thing. And the other thing with the rental, it's a month-to-month rental. So, at any point in time somebody says with a rent-to-own hey, you know what, I really don't want this shed anymore, it doesn't fit my budget or I'm moving or something. You know we as a rent-to-own company would have to go pick those up, and so the consumer maybe is paying more, but they're paying for that convenience, that flexibility versus a loan.
Joel Oney:You know these loans that we are now offering have a much lower interest rate. For people with good credit, they can get something as low as 10.99 percent and it's free then for the dealer or the manufacturer to use it. That in for the dealer or the manufacturer to use it that now there's promotional rates available, that can. It's lower rates or zero percent for six months or 12 months and things like that. That would have some fees associated with it. But if somebody just wanted to offer 10.99 for seven years or 10 years, that's free for a manufacturer to offer. That's a really good rate compared to rental. But with that, you know someone's locked into that loan. Like you said, they're going to get a credit check, going to make sure that the debt to income works. That's all a very fast, automated, paperless process that happens real slick and easy and we can demonstrate that for anybody that would ever be interested. But once they get that loan, you know they're kind of locked into that.
Joel Oney:If they borrow for $10,000 for a shed, they have to pay $10,000 back plus the interest, unless they pay it off early. It is simple interest. There's no penalty for prepayment. But if somebody says you know what, I really don't want this shed anymore, I'm moving, whatever. I just don't think I need this shed. Now With the loan, that's fine, but you still got to make your payment right.
Joel Oney:Whereas the rent to own if you don't want that building anymore, the company comes and picks it up and you're out of that deal. There's some things with the rent to own that I think are good and it's still a great fit for some customers and again, we don't ever disparage that. In fact, we still do a little bit of rent to own ourselves. But the loan just serves a different purpose for somebody that wants to have a maybe a lower interest rate, has a building that doesn't fit the rent to own. Maybe they've got a decent credit score. They want something that matches their credit score better, those kinds of things, those kinds of things, those kinds of ones that are a good fit for it.
Joel Oney:And so, I think, the more that a dealer or a manufacturer is able to speak to hey, here's the good things about rent-to-own advantages and disadvantages. Here's the good things, advantages and disadvantages to using a financing product or a loan like this the more value they provide to their customers and, gosh, if you're able to provide that value of talking them through those options, who are they going to buy from? They're going to buy from you, right? Because you're the one that's helped them figure this out right there on the spot, how they're going to pay for this thing to get them over that objection in the back of their mind, and it's something that just helps people sell more sheds, right? So, Katie, that's my two cents on that part of it. But from your perspective, as a young consumer and someone who you know is relatively recently graduated from Marshall, what would your take on that be?
Katelyn Spears:Yeah, you know I wasn't going to say anything, but I might be a little bit more familiar with the school system as of recent. You know I had one semester of a personal finance class, and you know I feel like I learned a lot in that class, and I got really into it too. So, I paid attention, but it was a minor class that didn't really actually count towards your full grade. I don't think a lot of people paid attention. But as I've talked to different friends as we went through college, not everybody had that.
Katelyn Spears:Not every school system requires a personal finance class and I've experienced friends that don't know how to write a check or are getting super high car interest rates and they're, you know, locked into that for a really long time because they're just not educated on you know what they're getting, but on the flip side is we've experienced a few merchants who are like okay, how is financing different from RTO? Is that not what I'm already offering? So then, learning that you know if they stop making their payments, you don't have to worry about going to pick up that shed on both sides of it. It's just you know, informing yourself and knowing what you're offering or what you're buying.
Shed Geek:Gosh, what a great yeah that's a good point, Katie.
Joel Oney:Whenever we say, with the financing, you know you don't worry about going and repo-ing the shit.
Shed Geek:Yeah.
Joel Oney:Because it's your loan. People's eyes get big. They're like, oh, what you mean? We don't have to repo that thing if they stop paying.
Shed Geek:So yeah, Well, and I think that's one of the first questions we'll get.
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Shed Geek:That's a lot of the negative aspect that a lot of companies see on RTO is having to go back out and pick something up. So, understanding that it works different renting something than selling something. I feel like we're constantly laying that groundwork down because I believe that there are not just consumers who do not understand the difference in a credit sale and a rental fee.
Shed Geek:Even if you explain it to them and disclose all of that information on the contract, as is required, it doesn't mean that they really comprehend it. The contract as is required, it doesn't mean that that they really comprehend it. You know, um, uh, somebody said, uh, communications key. And I heard somebody say actually comprehension is the key. Like I can explain it, but until they really grab a hold of it and understand it like it. You know, I've disclosed all of the stuff I'm required to legally, but I want them to get it, I want them to understand it.
Shed Geek:On a different level. And I would even to your point, Katie, where you said folks have even asked you. You know, how does that differ from RTO? I would venture to say there's not just shed dealers who probably could use some education in that area. Manufacturers don't always have the, you know, they wear a lot of hats so they don't have the time, and I even told someone recently. I would venture as far as to say there are even some RTO providers that probably need some education on that and I know people maybe think that's a slight that I'm taking, but it's not.
Shed Geek:I've literally asked. I remember asking an RTO provider one time, you know. They were asking about some software and we were talking to advisors and they were like what's that? And I could just tell they were just so uninvolved in the actual nature of their business that it was, you know, felt more like a money grab, like hey, this is a way to make good money. Like hey, this is a way to make good money. And it's kind of like hey, there's still a whole customer service side of offering rent to own and finance that people don't realize that you guys at J Money do a really, really great job at. And that's why I'm excited to partner with you is because we've experienced that.
Shed Geek:And that's what people want ultimately, right, they want a good experience, they want a pleasant experience that's easy to use, easy to understand. Hey, I have someone to contact whenever I have trouble here, you know. But maybe I won't even have to do that. If I go through the proper training and I can comprehend it and understand it well, there won't be a big need for me to just call someone. That's what I feel like I've found through this partnership. I think that's what others have found through this who've signed up and, uh, I really think that there's a lot of potential for finance in the shed space specifically, and even beyond the other structures, you know, but specifically in the shed space, uh, for the next five to ten years I definitely feel like the game is changing a little bit.
Katelyn Spears:You know, at first it started out with if you want to shed, you buy cash. And then it went to RTO and now you've kind of got to think outside of the shed and you can't just put a shed on your lot. You have to offer all of these options to enable people to purchase them. You kind of got to broaden your horizon a little bit yeah, Joel, 25 years in professional banking.
Shed Geek:Like you know, we broke this down to layman's terms and said what does this mean? This, this, you know, finance means that it's not as risky of a contract because you kind of have some history, their, their personal income, you know, their purchasing habits, um, their habits in terms of, like, paying back money borrowed, uh, so you know, you're, you're, you're judging, or is judging the right word, you're qualifying the person based off of their, uh, their, their history, you know, and their, their position in their, in their world, financially, as opposed to rent to own, that's just open to everyone. Um, what happens whenever people don't pay for these things? Even at that level of the game? What I mean, you know, because everybody's like, was that on me? What happens? You've already addressed it, but what, what happens with that loan?
Joel Oney:essentially, yeah, that loan would go through a collection process the same way any other unsecured consumer loan would go through a collection process, whether it's a student loan or a credit card. You know there's a myriad number of types of unsecured consumer credits out there in the marketplace personal loans, those kinds of things that the recourse is back on the borrower themselves and that's why the process goes through a really fast qualification process. Right, well, uh, the dealer is sitting there with the potential shed buyer that uses a soft pull on the credit with just some really simple information name, address and then income for the applicant and then household income. So it thinks about maybe if somebody types really slow maybe 60 seconds to fill it and it can be filled out by the dealer or by the customer and a person can know whether or not they qualify relatively quickly for that, and then it's real easily completed then by the consumer on their device they can pick whatever products that particular dealer or manufacturer is offering. They can pick from one of those and close the deal pretty much right where they're sitting there. But it's got to be somebody that has decent credit, because you know how it is If you've paid on time before likely you're going to be paying on time again in the future, and that was out of the 25 years you mentioned that I was in banking.
Joel Oney:One of the things that we learned over and over again is that the most important factor when we were evaluating a loan whether it was for $5,000 or $5 million, which we did some large loans when I was in banking was the individual character. If somebody had a history of paying on time, they were going to do whatever it took, regardless of circumstances, to pay on time in the future. And somebody that didn't pay on time, you know they may not find that nearly as important in the future either if they haven't done it.
Shed Geek:That's why that payment history is so. It's super interesting to hear, as a banking professional, a previous 25 years experience, like to hear what, what is kind of the behind the scenes picture in terms of, like, you know, uh, determining the success or failure of a loan application has got so much to do with, like, your history of like, I mean, that's the my friends who always say, you know, with banking it's usually like, hey, I need to borrow $10,000. Sure, can you prove to me how you're going to pay back the $10,000? It's like, no, that's why I'm borrowing it, you know and uh.
Shed Geek:So it's always funny to see, like this uh amount of like, guaranteed and just different. You know what what people want, require and where the banking industry. How much it's changed probably in the 25 years that you've been in it, seeing small banks close up, just seeing a lot of different uh, changes and uh you even banks getting into the RTO world that we are in, you know, because the landscape has changed to some extent.
Joel Oney:Yeah, there's been some changes. I think one of the big changes is that it went from early in my career. You know you would submit all kinds of paperwork to get a loan. You would go through a process and it would be analyzed and there would be decision makers. And that's all become automated now, with automated systems that utilize some minimal information to do predictions on whether or not somebody is going to pay back on time.
Joel Oney:And that is going from what used to be a matter of dollar deal for some robotic equipment for a large farm operation and we were really debating whether or not we were going to go forward with this loan. But in the end I reassured my colleagues that, okay, these are pretty good people, I've known them for a long period of time and their character is really stellar and at the end of the day, we made a multimillion-dollar decision based upon the character of them. So, some things have evolved, but some things never change, and one of those things that never changes is somebody that has great character usually is going to be a good risk when it comes to putting money out there in the form of a loan.
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Shed Geek:Joel, I've learned this in my small amount of time in seeking investment for RTO funds Just a meeting we had last week. I'm so surprised at the way the process works versus what you experience it to be like in your head. What's the famous quote? We suffer more in imagination than we do in reality. You'd be really surprised at how human people are when you're asking for millions of dollars. It's kind of a you know, to grow up so poor and uh, I've, I've I tell the story a lot and neither one of my parents even accomplished $10 an hour in their lifetime. You know, so like we really came from from nothing. So like, so we really came from nothing. So imagine not being very what's the right word? Distinguished in terms of the way that financing is supposed to work and supposed to operate. Imagine if you will asking someone for millions of dollars and being able to laugh and have conversation and I'm just like, wow, this is different than I expected. So my experience has been really fun and I'm excited to see our growth, to even be able to have those conversations, because it's teaching me a lot in business as a professional, but it's teaching me a lot in the financial world. Katelyn, some folks, this is something I get a lot.
Shed Geek:I'm trying to ask questions or think of things that people I might be close to ask Like, hey, what about people who have really low FICO scores? What about the subprime credit we get into 500, 600, low sixes credit scores? There's just not a real heavy appetite in an unsecured loan for those types of numbers that I've seen much anywhere. And people want an alternative to rent, to own, which they're viewing it as a traditional loan, which it's not, but they're viewing the numbers, they're viewing the. This shed was $5,000, it cost $. So, you know my interest rate is X, which is it's non-existent, it's a rental fee, but they treat it that way. And then they come over and they see a 750 credit score and they say, okay, we see the total savings is $3,000, maybe you know, versus what it would be on rent. And there's some people trying to find like this middle ground of like, yeah, but what if they come in at a 500 credit score? How do you answer those questions on the calls?
Katelyn Spears:Yeah, well, so far we've seen with our partner that they kind of cover. I think we see about 660 and above for approvals there. So, once it gets lower, that really is the question. We've kind of said that that's where the RTO customers come in place. Joel, I don't know if you want to talk on that more, but that really is the question. We're still asking that now.
Joel Oney:Yeah, and there's one of the things that we're continuing to seek as we seek answers is something for those folks that are below the 660, 680, because that's really where the sweet spot is for unsecured Remember, this is an unsecured loan at 10, 11%.
Joel Oney:That's going to be for a customer that has probably a 680 score and higher is where most people are going to find the most success with this, and not that we would only relegate the lower credit scores to rent, to own, but that would be kind of the only option out there right now, unless a manufacturer wants to pay some large fees to offset that risk.
Joel Oney:Right? So a lender might say, okay, yeah, we could take on this 600 credit score, this 580 credit score, but in order for us to do that, we're only going to fund 90% of this loan or 85% of it, and you, the manufacturer or the dealer, have to eat the other 10% or 15% to get that across the finish line. Well, there's not much margin beyond that in the shed industry, and so that's really not a great option, and so we're continuing to look in that space. But really the financing just again, because it's an unsecured loan and at a decent rate of interest, there can't be a lot of losses in that space, and so you have to say, okay, yeah, where's the cutoff? Probably in that mid to high 600s and higher.
Shed Geek:Well, and really until.
Joel Oney:Go ahead, Katelyn, in that mid to high 600s and higher.
Shed Geek:Well, and really until Go ahead.
Katelyn Spears:Katelyn, Joel continues to work with our partners too, probably on a weekly basis, on expanding those approvals. So, we're working towards that every day to get a larger variety of customers across the finish line.
Joel Oney:Yeah, that's one of the things we see too is that the more high quality applicants one of our customers can bring to the table, the more we not going to get many approvals. But if somebody has a lot of 700s and 800 credit scores that they're bringing to the table, they're going to get a few more of those six sixties approved.
Shed Geek:Yeah, no, it makes. It makes good sense. I mean, I'm sitting here thinking about the long term play of it and you know the way that rent own has gotten competitive where you see now like dealer premiums and different things offered. You know, until finance becomes really competitive in nature inside of the industry, you know, I don't, I don't know that people are going to be just rushing to those unsecured loans. You know that 10, 11% unsecured loan is cheaper than you know the interest rate on a home in the eighties and you know we don't, we forget that. You know, whenever people saw 16 and 17% interest rates and so like, yeah, things are better.
Joel Oney:And prime rate right now is 8%. So, you think about that prime rate and that's usually for a secure loan, that's maybe secure a second mortgage on somebody's house or something like that is what prime is. A lot of commercial loans are prime plus two, which prime plus two would be 10% right now, and those are mostly secured loans. So, something starting in that 10, 11 percent range for an unsecured consumer loan with no documentation required and a fast, easy decision, those are pretty good rates. Now, will everybody qualify for that rate? No, but you know, even if somebody qualifies and they don't have that top credit score, they're still going to be in the mid-teens as far as an interest rate, much lower than a credit card or much lower than many consumer loans that are in the low 20s as far as interest rates go right.
Shed Geek:And what type of cap can they kind of expect? Because that becomes very important, especially as, you see I think it was Gary Reichert Shield Wall Media, garage Shed Carport Builder released some data recently saying that, like 40% of shed builders also build post frame or vice versa. I don't remember exactly which way it is, but the bottom line is, people get into other areas and does this transfer over. What type of limitations can they see on the different buildings? What about metal structures? Everybody's getting into any more, offering these steel tube carports and big buildings. What can they expect as a consumer? Katie, I'll let you go with that one, Katie, I'll let you go with that one.
Katelyn Spears:So we will loan on anything home improvement, so we will do. Even if you want to change the roof on your house, you know, get a deck put in a pool, we'll cover anything like that. The line stops at. If you want to build a house, that's where it stops, but sheds anything home improvement including garages and metal buildings, post frame, tubular steel buildings, all those things.
Joel Oney:Yeah, those are all things that we do, a whole bunch of Shannon, and it's up to a hundred thousand dollars too. So, you know you get into a pretty sizeable. You know post frame type of building that someone's going to be using as a man cave to park the camper in. You know those kinds of things $80,000, $90,000, $100,000 building. That's something that we could do with this product.
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Shed Geek:Now that's, that's excellent. There's so many people that are in need of this program. It's why we wanted to partner with you here at shed geek, where we extended the shed geek finance tab, and, by all means, I told you about this beforehand, guys. If you, if you, decide to come through shed geek to get to J money, it's not costing you any more money, it's just costing Joel. So, let's, let's keep.
Shed Geek:Keep that in mind uh, you know, throw a dog a bone. Give me a chance to make the introduction of these awesome people, Joel and Katelyn. They've been excellent. Katelyn, before we go, tell me about this tiny home project. What is I mean? You're I? I've never asked you how old you are, they say. Not to ask a lady. I tend to think that you're young enough that you're still not offended by me maybe asking how old you are. But you got out of college, you're young. You took on this project. Where'd that come from? Where, where? Where does that like appetite come from?
Katelyn Spears:Yeah, you're fine. I still get people asking me what high school I go to. So I just appreciate you think I graduated college. So yeah, I'm just 22.
Katelyn Spears:I graduated from Marshall two years ago and for my final project I so I majored in entrepreneurship and for our senior project we had to come up with a business plan, and my business plan was for wildflower homes building tiny homes that could be rented as apartments. So, you're not stuck in these cramped little apartments with everything's outdated. You hear your neighbor to the left, the right, upstairs, you have your own comfortable space that you can call home, but at the end of the day you're just paying rent and you don't have to worry about taking out a mortgage or having all that stress on your shoulders. So, I took that project to competition. I won the campus qualifier at Marshall and then the next year I bought a property.
Katelyn Spears:I got my general contractor's license. I got our local trade school to proof out the walls for me. So, they got some real life experience and I've had my hand in just about every other aspect of the property. I was over there putting the siding up. I was on the roof helping with the shingles, putting in the insulation on the hottest day of the year, which was terrible, finished the drywall and I've happily got two tenants in there now. So long process but I'm glad I've, you know, got a bow on it now and all done.
Shed Geek:Joel, don't let her go. She's going to have a job the next day.
Joel Oney:No, she's, she. I've already told, already told her. You know, this is a lifelong partnership. We got here, so her life, as you can see, is going to be a lot longer than mine, so she's going to be off the hook before I.
Shed Geek:Well, that's a that's excellent and just that your ambition and really even your talk about trade that's kind of exciting, because that's, uh, that again, that was the most recent article is like you know, how do we increase trade, uh, you know, for long term in this industry, because I really feel like that's what I hear a lot of people say is like I need help, good help. Where do I find it? You know, all of that stuff, it's just, it's just almost impossible, guys, believe it or not. I think I told you 45 minutes goes by quick. I think we're at 49, um, real quick. Any questions you want to ask me, just because I do this for everyone else, any questions about podcasting shed industry, uh, you may have done, and if you have done, that's okay. But any questions that you would have for me that I can answer, full transparency, open.
Joel Oney:I just like the dialogue and the conversation going once what's maybe the most interesting, intriguing story that you might have, about strange shit or a customer or a delivery or something like that. Let's, let's. Here's something kind of fun.
Shed Geek:Hmm, something fun. There was this one time that I don't know if this is fun. There was this one time I was selling sheds where a competitor came on and lured a customer away down to their lot. So that says a lot for collaboration in the industry. Oh gosh, I don't know there was. I don't have good stories. Uh, we just had some interesting stuff. Maybe happen, I think. Maybe my maybe one of the more interesting stories was um, we did, we did a through. It was through LP, as maybe one of my favorite stories. So, LP smart siding.
Shed Geek:We had done a commercial for summit portable buildings. So, you guys are familiar with Irvin Stutesman. Uh, Irvin is a just an excellent guy. We did a commercial for him, for him pre-marketing days. We were marketing this was five, six years ago and we basically created a video and it showed how sheds were starting to be used for things different than just typical storage. I wrote the script, Dylan helped nail down the vision and the rest was history. Dylan helped nail down the vision and the rest was history.
Shed Geek:In short, we did a video in our hometown of a young boy who was struggling to pay for groceries. He was at the local like quick stop or whatever Couldn't pay for, like a thing of Beanie Weenies or something like that. You know ramen noodles. It was something really simple and a lady noticed that and felt bad for him because he walked out without getting anything. So, she goes home in the video and she looks up portables. Or she looks up food banks near me and there weren't any. So, she looks up portable structure to turn it into a food bank and that's ultimately what she created.
Shed Geek:And then the story come around that the young boy came in to actually end up getting groceries there and you show the cupboard full of groceries because people were trying to think outside the box of how to use it. And LP actually picked that story up, called us and said you made some of the girls in our office in our marketing department cry with this video. That wasn't the intention, I mean, it was crying in a good way. But they said, hey, we want to build a shed and give it away as a food pantry. We think it's an excellent idea and we actually got to build that.
Shed Geek:Through Summit Portable Buildings, Irvin Stutzman built that shed. We delivered it to Shawnee Development, which is in Pulaski County, in the county I grew up in, which is the poorest county in Illinois or second poorest county in Illinois where to this day, it still sits and services the community through a food bank. So, my feel good story is that that that was really amazing and good on them to fund that that adventure, cause every time I drive by it on the way to my mom's or my in-laws I still smile, because that all started with an idea to just be different.
Joel Oney:That's a great story and a great way to wrap up the conversation and leave us feeling good and smiling. But we've been smiling ever since we partnered with you, Shannon, and look forward to long, many successful years ahead.
Shed Geek:Well, hey, you guys that are listening, give me a chance. Shed Geek Finance you know who it's powered by now. It's J Money's the backbone of this and the partnerships that they've established through this. I trust them and we operate on a high level of trust and just doing a good thing on staying on brand, and these guys couldn't meet that anymore. I'm super proud to be partnered with them.
Shed Geek:Give us a shot at Shed Geek Finance/ J Money. They're going to be powering this thing and taking it to a whole new level. So, let's, let's connect, if we can. Info@ shed geek. com. Go to shed geek. com and fill out a lead form request. Heck, give Katelyn and Joel a call directly. It don't matter, as long as we're helping you, we'll deal. We'll deal with the details later. We want to help you sell more sheds, so, all right. Well, thank, thank you guys for coming on today. It, uh, it means a lot that you take the time and, uh, yeah, it's been great.