Shed Geek Podcast
The Shed Geek Podcast offers an in depth analysis of the ever growing and robust Shed Industry. Listeners will experience a variety of guests who identify or specialize in particular niche areas of the Shed Industry. You will be engaged as you hear amateur and professional personalities discuss topics such as: Shed hauling, sales, marketing, Rent to Own, shed history, shed faith, and much more. Host Shannon Latham is a self proclaimed "Shed Geek" who attempts to take you through discussions that are as exciting as the industry itself. Listeners of this podcast include those who play a role directly or indirectly with the Shed Industry itself.
Shed Geek Podcast
Adventures at the Shed Expo: From Road Trips to Storytelling PART 1
Picture this: a night out with friends, a van full of laughter, and an unexpected quest for ice cream. Join me, Sambassador, and my good friend Jason Kaufman as we embark on a whimsical journey from road trip escapades to the bustling Shed Expo in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Despite a concussion setting back Jason, we find humor and camaraderie in tales of semi-truck pulls, spontaneous pit stops, and lively Airbnb gatherings filled with theological debates and golf simulations. Our tales weave through the chaotic charm of the expo, reconnecting us with old friends and introducing us to new ones, all while trying to keep up with the whirlwind of familiar faces and surprising encounters.
The Shed Expo this year is a testament to the industry's vitality, boasting bigger spaces and a lively atmosphere with representatives from Pine Hill, Scenic View, and Cardinal in attendance. The unexpected turnout serves as a reminder of the power of personal connections, even when online buzz seems subdued. Our musings capture the soul of the event, reflecting on the dynamics of large and small exhibitors, and the fascinating growth and challenges faced by builders amidst the booming population in the southern United States. From South Carolina to Texas, the migration patterns are shifting, presenting new opportunities and trials for local economies and housing demands.
Finally, we explore the art of storytelling within the shed industry, sharing personal insights into writing and the influences of great authors who have shaped our narrative style. The journey from shed building to crafting engaging stories is one filled with unexpected popularity and a loyal readership. As we reminisce about childhood dreams and life-defining events, the connections and shared histories come alive, reminding us of our roots and the importance of storytelling in building community. So, tune in for a heartfelt conversation that bridges past adventures with present challenges, and maybe, just maybe, inspires a tale of your own.
For more information or to know more about the Shed Geek Podcast visit us at our website.
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This episodes Sponsors:
Studio Sponsor: Union Grove Lumber
Cardinal Leasing
Shed Challenger
All right guys, welcome back to another episode of the Shed Geek podcast. Friday fun day with Samb asseter style. Oh, it's late and I can tell it's late, so it's been a long day. It's been a long day. I'm here with Jason Kaufman. We are in the middle of the Shed Expo in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Yeah, and last time we were here we had a lot of fun Rolling around in the back of a van All kinds of good food and stuff, BMW. So yep, the big Mennonite wagon.
Jason Kauffman:Who was the driver?
Jason Kauffman:that night
Sambassador:Tim Hershberger,
Jason Kauffman:tim
Jason Kauffman:Hershberger. I knew his name was Hershberger.
Sambassador:Yeah, shout out to Tim, he had his minivan here and we had like nine guys packed in that thing and we were looking for ice cream.
Jason Kauffman:We were. We were Paul Stoniker had a seizure. He laughed so hard
Sambassador:he did
Sambassador:And we couldn't get him back up off the floor. He was laying on the floor having a good time. I like coming up here.
Sambassador:It's too far from home. I don't like that part
Jason Kauffman:you're. You're not too far from home. No, I know you're a lot further than I am so what did you have like?
Sambassador:how many hours was it? 30 hours, 30? Yeah, yeah, so it makes my 12 look kind of easy. Yeah, so I actually, on the way up, I stopped in Fort Wayne. You remember how?
Jason Kauffman:I was.
Sambassador:Yeah, Fort Wayne, Indiana, because I have new friends there and I don't know if you've heard me talk about this or not, but they're new friends because they're the guys that won the mule at the North Carolina Bash.
Jason Kauffman:Yeah, Lonegar Brothers. Yes, yes, yeah.
Sambassador:So I stopped in there. Did I ever tell you? So you're not on Facebook much anymore, so I feel like I don't even get to connect with you much.
Jason Kauffman:It sucks but no, it's good.
Sambassador:Um, I just I got to remember. Oh, Jason didn't see this. So, I tend to try to keep you up to date and send you stuff. Um, but I had gone to the semi truck pulls this summer, okay, where they race uphill, oh, up in Canada, well, it was here they do it in northern Michigan the Canadians come down oh, wow like it's part of their circuit.
Sambassador:Okay, and I found out they do one in Ohio. That's um. So here they pull the double loaded lumber wagons. Okay, in Ohio they have the dump buggies. Okay, um, I don't think the Ohio one is quite as much weight and I think we figured out it's about 120 000 pounds, my, without the truck that they're pulling now. So, depending on what the truck weighs, they're around 140, 145 and uh.
Sambassador:So, on the way up I was like, hey, I'm going by there, I'm gonna stop, because they had asked me to stop by a couple times. And man, I had as much fun with those guys as I've had it with anybody in the industry. Yeah, it was great, they are really good guys. So anyway, I called them the other night and I'm like, look, I don't really, I can drive all the way to grand rabbits, but it'd be kind of cool stopping. Stop in and see y'all. Oh, absolutely, they were all about it. So stopped in. So, I had nine and a half hours there. I left Monday morning at 3.30, stopped and had breakfast with Corey Knopf in London and I had Dan Utes with me, so at least I had somebody riding with me. Your passenger didn't.
Jason Kauffman:Yeah, he flaked out on me, so I've been on my own. Yeah, so that is a long long trip by yourself.
Sambassador:Yeah, it is. I'm to the point to where eight to nine to ten hours is about what my max I want it to be. So, driving to Fort Wayne didn't feel too bad, and then get up the next morning. Come the rest of the way it's, it's fairly easy if I got somebody along to talk to or whatever, so that that helps a lot yeah, um, when did you leave?
Jason Kauffman:um, I had a delivery at home Monday morning and then I got. It was about an hour and a half in the right direction oh and I just swapped out with my pilot car driver.
Sambassador:Oh really. And took the vehicle and he drove my truck back.
Jason Kauffman:Oh, okay. So, I would say I headed, I left the Rockies, oh, 10.30 in the morning, something like that.
Sambassador:And.
Jason Kauffman:I drove till 11.30 that night and got a hotel. And then the next day was worse. The next day yeah, you had a lot left. Oh, my lord, 7 15 I left my hotel Tuesday morning and 11 15 I got here. Yeah, a little over a thousand miles.
Sambassador:Yeah, that was just hammer down. Stop for fuel, get a bite go. Yeah, yeah. So, we did the bash back in march. What you been up to since then um work mostly.
Jason Kauffman:I mean, I have actually had very little leisure time since the bash. I at the bash, you remember, I was still recovering from my concussion yeah, yeah, we talked about that a little bit and that's been.
Sambassador:It's been a longer, slower road than I wish it would have been, but that's okay, doesn't have anything to do with you not getting enough rest, like so. Just for the record, you guys, if you hear background noise, um, we're, we're at it theological discussions going on over here.
Jason Kauffman:We got golf game, golf game yeah, we have a golf sim.
Sambassador:We're at an airbnb um, I have gotten to where. So, this actually started three years ago here in Grand Rapids.
Sambassador:We got a motel room you remember that yeah and it was on the back side of the motel, looked out at nothing. Yeah, and it was fairly boring, yeah, like we, we just stayed out till late, yeah, and after that I started thinking you know, if we could get 10 guys together, we could get some really nice Airbnb places and hang out like that, and that's such a nice way to do an event like this, whether it's a bash or an expo or anything like this.
Jason Kauffman:It's so much more comfortable to get a bunch of guys together. You're not really spending that much more than a motel would be, and you've got the comfort of home with you.
Sambassador:You're not stuck in some stupid little motel room that's uncomfortable, or down in the lobby where everybody hangs out, which is kind of fun but it's not comfortable. No, it's not. So, we did the Tennessee one, remember we had that nice place.
Jason Kauffman:That was memorable.
Sambassador:I think of those stories we told late at night that was memorable, I think, of those stories we told late at night. I don't want to talk about those stories. Those stories need to stay in that house. What happened in that house stays in that house. What happened in that house stays in that house. You know what sticks out.
Jason Kauffman:All I'll say is I'm not going to say it. No, don't I need to change my wording.
Sambassador:That's bad. That's just not going to work right out of the gate. I need to change my wording. That's bad.
Jason Kauffman:That's just not going to work right out of the gate.
Sambassador:What is most memorable to me about us staying at that house was the fact that and this happens on a regular basis Was what?
Jason Kauffman:Jay-Z said about you and I.
Sambassador:Yeah, what Jay-Z said about us?
Jason Kauffman:You remember that? Oh yeah, yeah, he figured you and I were total jerks, yeah well, he had a better word, like I said here, but he did?
Sambassador:He had just kind of decided that we were jerks and we were just Facebook keyboard warriors yeah, keyboard warriors. And I remember that the last morning riding back into the bash, and he's like I was wrong. He's like you guys are okay, yeah, and that it. And after that I was like you know what we can. We can do so much better and more building relationships when we hang out with people yeah, um, it's, we get so busy at events.
Sambassador:you, you said something earlier tonight about how you didn't even get around today, and I it, it's, it's just a constant.
Jason Kauffman:Well, it's that I and I don't know sometimes quite how to relate to it and you're a lot better at remembering people than I am I struggle with remembering people to start with. Yeah and uh, people come up to me and they're like oh, you're Jason and you're Jason. You write the stories, that's probably the most common one I get, because I get it from these Amish and Mennonites that don't see me anywhere else except they read my stories.
Sambassador:Yeah, they read them in the magazine.
Jason Kauffman:And I feel bad because I don't remember them, I don't know them and I want to be a personable person and a friendly approachable person, but I person and a friendly person, but I'm like I can't even get down the aisle anymore everybody's stopping and talking.
Jason Kauffman:Yeah, um, but I and I mean today was good again, just meeting a bunch of people and a bunch of people that I hadn't seen in several years, yeah, and then a bunch of people that I'd never seen before just good, comfortable conversations did you make the virginia or the knoxville expos? No, this is the only place I've ever been at an expo. Okay, I was here three years ago, in 2021. Okay, and then here again, all right so I wasn't sure about that.
Sambassador:Um, let's talk about the expo a little bit. I was uh, I can't. I I kind of keep the pulse of the industry off of you know, shed sales professionals, shed builder page, shed hauler page, sheds united and I actually felt like it was like attendance might be down because you didn't hear a lot of people talking about it. You know what I'm saying. And then there was a whole bunch of people show up that never said they were coming, you know, or whatever and you're talking online.
Jason Kauffman:The conversation was subdued, okay, yeah, the online.
Sambassador:Uh, conversation was subdued yeah, that's a good way saying it. And then this morning, you know, by the time it's time to open up, it's packed out, yeah, and they come flooding in there and for a couple hours it's just crazy, yeah noisy, yeah noisy, I can't hear anyway. And then you put all those people you know and it's just a din. And then the thumpers are over there thumping on trying to break that plexiglass, j mags being noisy, banging something up and down. You know um, but it was, uh, I think I think, all in all, we'll end up saying it was a good show.
Jason Kauffman:It was bigger. So, we're in the same hall that we were three years ago, and the last time we were here they used exactly half the hall.
Sambassador:Yeah, because I remember we were parked on the backside of the curtain.
Jason Kauffman:This time here they used three-quarters or more of that hall. It's a big place and some of the big guys like Pine Hill, scenic View and Cardinal they use three quarters or more of that hall.
Sambassador:Yeah, I mean, it's a big place and some of the big guys like Pine Hill, Scenic View and Cardinal actually seem to be in smaller space. Pine Hill had five trailers last time.
Jason Kauffman:Really.
Sambassador:Yeah, I can't remember that. You know, scenic View didn't have a booth. Yeah, he didn't even have a booth. Yeah, I bumped into him and I was like, hey, where's your booth? He's like I'm going to have a booth this year, yeah, yeah, and he had the booth over in the corner last time. Yeah, it's just, some of the bigger ones seemed smaller and there was a lot more smaller ones.
Jason Kauffman:Yeah, Cardinal felt bigger this time, but I don't. Maybe I'm comparing it to three years ago.
Sambassador:Cardinal had a big footprint. Yeah, Cardinal leasing was in their space with a smaller area. Yeah, um, and then, yeah, like I said, I felt like WKM and Pine Hill. Both were in a slightly smaller spot.
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Sambassador:Um, so you're? You're a. You're a builder. Um, you don't just haul sheds, you build, you sell um what does the expo? I know you didn't get to get around much and maybe this would be a question better for after tomorrow because I'm I guess in tomorrow you're going to try to get around I don't know.
Jason Kauffman:Yeah, I got 30 hours to drive so I might, you might, yeah, I mean because if I get in there at 1030, I won't get out of there until noon.
Sambassador:No, you won't. Which is good? There's no way.
Jason Kauffman:I mean that's if I rush it.
Sambassador:Yeah, so I'm not sure. I don't think you'll get it. We'll see how I feel in the morning. See how good I sleep overnight.
Jason Kauffman:Okay, but what do you see? All the other stuff they have going on there. I think for me, and this was why I wanted my manager, my shop manager, there, because he is more involved in that sort of stuff than I am at this point in my life, yeah, and that is.
Jason Kauffman:There's just a lot of products out there that are available for builders you know, when my dad started building sheds in 1990 you know we had there was one window supplier. Yep, there's a garage doors. We went to a local garage door company and there were what? Four or five?
Sambassador:roll-up door companies there today it kind of surprises me that, like we always just bought local, yeah, and now all of a sudden you can almost cut the local guy out and be the local guy. Yeah, you know. Yeah, I talked to a couple guys. I don't know if you've noticed this trend or not happening, but some of the I mean I'm sure the big companies all do it but some of the more medium-sized companies are starting to start their own lumber yards. They're starting to roll their own metal, they're starting to you. You know my buddy, Norman, down in Tennessee. He bought a window company. He the guy that he was using to supply his windows, like he wasn't buying them at loads of Home Depot or wherever he had a supplier. Um, the guy says, hey, I'm getting old, I want out of this. So, Norman bought the window company, really, yeah. So, I don't know, maybe you should talk to Norman about getting windows.
Jason Kauffman:I don't know if he's got shed windows you know, see, and I actually see that with the medium-sized companies. I saw that in one of the companies in Montana quite a number of years ago. They just got tired of not having metal roofing like they wanted and all the supply and they started their own metal rolling company. Just started their own, yeah, and all in the supply and they started their own metal rolling company. Just started their own, yeah, and now they're supplying all of their own plus all kinds of other people.
Sambassador:Yeah, I feel like I'm at the expo and I keep hearing this thing bang around. And it's those guys out there trying to play that golf simulator.
Jason Kauffman:Yeah, we should golf together sometime.
Sambassador:Oh, that'd be fun.
Jason Kauffman:I promise you would smoke me because I've golfed like three times in my life. Let me punch it. I promise you would smoke me because I've golfed like three times in my life, but I'm competitive enough.
Sambassador:Oh yeah, I would laugh at myself. Oh yeah, hey, well, that's a good idea. Yeah, we should take Chasen along too. Yeah, take Chasen along too, yeah.
Jason Kauffman:But back to that supply thing and you see, with the stuff that's available for all different guys, even small boutique guys like me, which that's where I would put myself as a very small shed company, a couple hundred sheds a year, where I've been in the industry forever, it seems. But you've got massive companies that are like nationwide companies and then you've got regional companies which are pretty big and they're doing stuff like you know, buying their own roofing companies Going to an expo, like I did today, and you walk those aisles and you see one booth after another and you think, hey, you know what.
Jason Kauffman:that's a product I've never thought I might need, but Innovations Technologies was there, so I had to pick up some ramps. I used their ramps. They've got a door system there. Now I didn't have a lot of time to look at the door system, but I'm intrigued because doors is a big part of my company. We brag our doors up. We give a lifetime warranty on doors.
Jason Kauffman:Yeah so, uh, that's the kind of thing that if, if you never go to an expo like this and you're never mingling with other builders, you are stuck in your own little echo chamber and all you see is your shop and your production and maybe your competitors, whose lot you're going to stop in once a year maybe, and look to see what the competitors are doing and see what they're doing.
Jason Kauffman:And then you're playing a reactive game, true? Rather than going out there and saying how can I make my product better, how can I make my product more consumer-friendly? You know, Rampage Doors was there today. I've never used a Rampage Door but they're providing a service to people that, frankly, four years ago it'd never crossed my mind. I'm like what you get the little ramps and you have a little wooden ramp.
Sambassador:at the time we did.
Jason Kauffman:Well, yeah. Then we had wooden ramps, yeah. So now you've got, there were two ramp companies there today, oh, wooden ramps, yeah. So now you've got. There were two ramp companies there today, oh yeah, different designs, yeah. And then you've got the rampage door design, yep, so I to me, that's just that expo is so valuable for any. I think it's more valuable even for a small guy like me than it might be for the big companies that are more set in their ways. Small guys like me say, hey, I can add that feature to my shed without updating half a dozen shops in my region or 100 shops across the United States.
Sambassador:I'd be like, no, I have one shop, I can incorporate that design, that's cool, yeah, and I 100% agree that it seems like it's even more important for the midsize guy. You know, there's something this goes back to three years ago when we were here. I was blown away by how many shed companies are in Michigan. Oh yeah, and you would never know about them if the expo wasn't in Michigan. Now a bunch of us fuss about the fact that it's on the edge. It's not in the middle where it's easy for everybody to get to. We're kind of on the edge of our circle. But it blew me away when I was here last time about how many shops are in this area that come here because it's a local. But then you know what that makes me think of.
Sambassador:There's a pretty good representation of Indiana, Illinois and Ohio. That does pretty good, but you don't. You don't see the southern shops. No, the middle-sized guys, yeah, you don't see the guys in the Midwest. You don't see that. Well, I guess they call this Midwest to me. You don't see the. It ain't Midwest, so you get to know yes, yeah, you don't see Missouri, Arkansas, I wouldn't from there out.
Sambassador:No, there there's some that show up. They travel well, but to think of how many like. There's a hundred shed shops in Michigan, that's crazy.
Jason Kauffman:It's crazy. Well, how many? So so? So, here's a question for you, and you know the south and the east better than me how many shed shops are in the Carolinas?
Sambassador:oh yeah, so I have 13 within 75 miles of me I mean think about the Carolina. The Carolinas blow me away, because Lancaster county was the epicenter of the shed industry when I was a kid yeah that's where the shed started I mean like that was, they've been at it longer yeah, they've been at it for 60, 70, 70 years.
Jason Kauffman:Yeah, but the Carolinas just kind of blow me away how in the last 15 years, 20 years, it's not that old. Yeah, it's very young, it's young and they're like there's shed shops and shed displays everywhere.
Jason Kauffman:But my question for you was how is the South? And see, I'm not familiar with the South at all and I think you would know better, but you know, driving through the Gulf States, are there as many small little mom-and-pop one-shop productions places down there? Or me, as a Yankee and a Westerner, it feels like, okay, the only ones down there are these big national companies.
Sambassador:So, the national companies definitely hold up their end of it. But those 13 local shops with me there's two national companies. The other 11 are local companies interesting yeah, and I guess small is relevant to, is it? They're building 500 sheds a year. They're building 200 sheds a year, you know, or is that medium and a small one would be 100 sheds a year? Um, obviously half of them are probably over 500 sheds.
Jason Kauffman:You're no longer small yeah.
Sambassador:So, the majority of them would fall, you know, probably into the 500 category, fairly easy. Um, and then there's a couple of them that are smaller ones, but here's the deal I've. I've said for years that the southern coast, what I call the southern coast states so you got South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, before you get to Texas those states are actually, they're divided states because I-20 goes through the middle of them and there is a distinct in the last five years. There is a distinct I-20 to I-40 corridor where huge growth.
Jason Kauffman:And 40 is up in Tennessee.
Sambassador:Yeah 40 is in Tennessee, so you're actually above that line a little bit Above the top of those states.
Sambassador:But Tennessee and North Carolina would still be considered the southeast. So, it runs through there. It runs through half of Arkansas. So, you take Arkansas and Louisiana all the way east, where 20 and 40 run through there. Some of the biggest growth in the US happens in that corridor Around the Dallas-Fort Worth area. Insane, the growth that's there In the shed. No, I'm saying in housing. Oh, okay, people moving in from everywhere. Yeah, um, I'm looking at it more from, yeah, like the just economic national builders association. Yeah, and so I used to be on that thing. So, I still get a lot of the emails. I see the growth numbers every year. Um, I made a comment on one of my podcasts a couple weeks ago that in our basic four-county upstate region, which wouldn't even include all the counties between 20 and the line like there's another 20 counties down there I'm just talking about the four golden corner counties in South Carolina we aren't even building enough sheds to keep up with new permits in one of those counties. That's crazy, think about that.
Jason Kauffman:That's crazy.
Sambassador:It's like wait a minute, because I mean that's you know I look at where our new customers are going to come from and you know I've got it all broke down on a paper at home that I had from way back in 2016. How many come from? You know, new building permits from people moving in building houses? How many come from? You know new building permits from people moving in building houses? How many come from people that move from one house to the other and they need more storage or whatever? And how many come from what? What are the numbers of high school kids that are graduating? Because those people are entering the workforce, they're starting to look at getting married, getting their own houses or whatever housing.
Sambassador:Yeah, it's ridiculous, we can't keep up. Nowhere close. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. So, yeah, I sit here and I'm like, well, 13 manufacturers in a small area seems crazy, but then so does having 1.1 million go to 1.7 million in a couple years of people, and it's like now understand those people are coming from somewhere else. So, it's kind of like how you say about church growth Is your church growth just Christians coming from other churches, or are they actually?
Jason Kauffman:new Christians. So, it's a little that same way. We have and I'll stay out of the politics of it, but we have 11 million new people coming into this country in the last three and a half years. Oh, I know so you have and that's illegally.
Sambassador:Yeah.
Jason Kauffman:And then you get your legal immigration and you have migration. So the West Coast states, and so we're seeing this in Montana. But California, oregon and Washington are losing population. They're actually losing. California lost a seat in the. House of Representatives because of the amount of people leaving there. So, places like the Carolinas, places like Montana, where I'm from. We're seeing an influx of people coming in.
Jason Kauffman:So, our population has gone insane. I mean the population of, of Flathead County, which is a County that I sell the majority of my sheds to, has gone up by close to 50% since COVID, and that's, that's since I was out there.
Sambassador:It is so hard to wrap. But then here's the thing we have people moving down from New York. You have people moving from New York. You have people moving from California. Um, you know, I get Al Bontrager on here in Texas and he just rants about the amount of people moving in from California and other places. You know how many Texans.
Jason Kauffman:We're getting in Montana because the California's are coming into Texas and like Texas ain't big enough, I mean you know, what I'm saying yeah, so, yeah.
Sambassador:So back in the early 2000s we had people moving in from Florida because the original Florida people were tired of everybody moving down there, so they were moving up into South Carolina, Tennessee. Tennessee's a huge spot. Huntsville, Alabama is huge on the radar for growth right now and you're like why there?
Sambassador:You know, I don't know. It's just weird how these hot spots. But here's what I'm saying. I talked to a guy today that used to be one of my clients in rent to own. That's in upstate New York. They're not hurting, they're selling sheds left and right.
Jason Kauffman:From downstaters, moving upstate or what?
Sambassador:I don't know. That's something that's been puzzling me because I used to live in upstate New York and one of the biggest sales lots that I currently know of is in Northern California. Wow, and it's like wait a minute, these states are supposed to be in downturns. You know what I'm saying? There was a guy there today. He's I think he would be considered Southwest Washington that has, you know, a pretty young, fresh shed company.
Jason Kauffman:I asked him how he's doing. Yeah, that's my cousin. Yeah, yeah, you know what I'm saying.
Sambassador:Yeah, he's doing fine. How can you be doing fine in a state that's losing people? I?
Jason Kauffman:don't know, and is? Is that that a? Is that an? It simply are those states supplementing their exodus via immigration, both legal and illegal.
Sambassador:I don't know maybe, but it doesn't seem like we can um you can't talk about, you can't.
Jason Kauffman:You can't, like, clearly define exactly what's going on.
Sambassador:You can't you can't clearly history, I mean it going on. No, you can't. There's a mystery.
Jason Kauffman:I mean, okay, and this is off the subject matter of sheds, but it is kind of like this why do we have a service industry labor shortage?
Sambassador:Oh yeah, and it's everywhere. Oh yeah, that's everywhere. It's not just in the city or not in this place.
Jason Kauffman:I mean, today we went to go find some place to eat for lunch. Yeah, and we get to the one restaurant that I just looked up on Google and while I looked at the line, they're at the food court and I'm like I'm not waiting that long.
Jason Kauffman:So, John Zook and I, we headed out the road and hiked up, found a little cafe and I kind of looked at them and we're nobody comes to talk to us for about three minutes. And I looked at him, I'm like how long have you been here? And they said an hour.
Sambassador:They don't have their food yet. Yeah, they didn't have food yet. We turned and walked out. Yeah, we were there a little while. Yeah, oh, yeah, you were there. Yeah, I was there.
Jason Kauffman:So, I have. I have puzzled with, you know, I sold a local county rodeo organizer and he owns a grocery store in my local town. Okay, and I said, mike, what's going on with the labor shortage? You own a grocery store, you're hiring these entry-level service jobs, you're hiring these people at $12, $15, $17 an hour, yep. And he said I honestly cannot put my finger on it, but since COVID we have had such a labor shortage. And he said it's not just the boomers have all retired, it's the kids aren't working anymore either, like the high school kids that I used to employ. No, I know.
Jason Kauffman:Our town, which is a small town in Montana, but it is the largest Class A football team town in the state of. Montana. So, we have AA and AAA. So, it's the big cities that have the bigger teams, but we've won state championship quite a few times out of Eureka but that is crazy, he said we have. Where are all these youth? I don't know where these high schools are. I don't see them walking the streets and I can't hire them because I don't know where they are.
Sambassador:So, they're getting tech jobs they're getting tech jobs of buying sheds. That's what they're getting. Tech jobs. They're getting tech jobs of buying sheds. That's what they're doing.
Jason Kauffman:But that's the kind of thing, that there's this. I'm sure that there's a, a, a. Some geek in a in a office will show me a spreadsheet and some flow chart, but it is hard for you or I to put our finger on it and say this is why the shed industry is doing what it's doing. This is why the labor shortage is happening, what is happening? I mean, I don't know if you responded to that email request about what's going on with the shed industry and is it slow and do you think?
Sambassador:it's going to be a selection year and all that.
Jason Kauffman:Yep, my business is down by about 30% this year over last year. This time 30% to 35%. Talk to another guy that's in my region and he said we're down 50% overall. Talk to another guy and they're down by 50% or greater. Do I know exactly why that's happening? I don't think it's that many people are waiting to see if Donald Trump becomes president. I think it's because you've got that many people and it's just part of the reason, isn't all of it?
Jason Kauffman:You've got that many people that are saying my grocery bill is now 300 bucks a week and it used to be 175 bucks a week. Absolutely, and my insurance bill is now $4,000 a year and it used to be $2,500 a year, and that's hurting people and, like it or not, the shed industry is catering to middle and lower class America. We are not selling to Bill Gates. We're not selling to these rich software developers.
Sambassador:No, because those guys will build a nice barn.
Jason Kauffman:Yeah, we're selling to the middle class and those below it. Yeah, especially when you're talking the rent-to-own industry, you're servicing the people that do not have the cash to buy it. So those people are looking at it and saying, oh, four years ago they'd say, yeah, I can afford $200 a month for a shed. Now they're saying my insurance and my grocery bill are $400 more per month than they were four years ago.
Sambassador:I can't afford a shed.
Jason Kauffman:Yep, that's how I'm seeing it, yeah.
Sambassador:So, let's switch gears a little bit. We got way off track.
Jason Kauffman:Sorry about that.
Sambassador:No, no, no, that's all good, I want to go back to something you said earlier about how you couldn't even like get around a day in there. You kept getting sidetracked or stuff. Yeah, I know why that is. I want our people to know why that is what makes Jason Kaufman come to Michigan 30 hours from home and he can't get around in a show.
Jason Kauffman:I think most of the people that have walked up to me have been like you're writing the stories. I had no idea that many people read that magazine and read those stories, and I've actually taken a break right now of writing because of my health this past year and just because of everything else that's been overwhelming to me, but something that I don't know the number. But how many people today told me my kid grabs that magazine? And turns straight to your page every time it comes in.
Sambassador:You're the Pat McManus of the chit industry.
Jason Kauffman:Like we can't wait to see what happened next so where does that come from? I mean, I hauled my first shed in 95 so it's been almost 30 years, so you have the stories, but yeah but a lot of.
Sambassador:I mean, we stand around and we get it. We have, you know, hang around people all the time. We hear stories, goofy stories, what, what, how do you? So? My? My secret to good writing for me is I have to be patient. I have to be willing to type out all the words. You know what I'm saying.
Jason Kauffman:Oh yeah, especially the conversation is hard for me.
Sambassador:Yes, like you're back and forth when you're saying you know, he said, she said customer said, cop said and you want to just kind of, and I'm just want to like I want to get past that, but that's what Dialogue is, what makes a good story? Yes, that's what makes it good, and that's hard, that's hard work.
Jason Kauffman:Yeah.
Sambassador:So where did? Where did that?
Jason Kauffman:Actually, I was talking to a guy today and he was asking me that very question.
Sambassador:He's like where did you get this?
Jason Kauffman:And he's like I was.
Sambassador:You're a shed builder. Yeah, I mean you run a huge company.
Jason Kauffman:I went to college and I was an English major and I said honestly my parents I have a high school dropout.
Sambassador:I didn't get a high school diploma.
Jason Kauffman:But I read voraciously. As a kid I read every book I could get my hands on, and my parents were sensible enough to not let me read garbage. But there's good literature out there fiction and nonfiction that is written by quality authors that will teach you everything you need to know about good sentence structure, good English, good language. And then I mean I grew up you said Pat McManus, I, you said Pat McManus. I grew up reading Pat McManus, I grew up reading Don Zato and Peter Kapstik and people like that, who have a flair for writing, that is, you know.
Jason Kauffman:I would love to say that someday I may reach their level of writing, but they, reading those Louis L'Amour I mean reading authors that know how to put a good story together was what would shape my writing style.
Sambassador:Yeah.
Jason Kauffman:And then going back over 30 years of stories of you know deliveries and customers and stuff. I mean it just and I still there's probably you know, several times a year I bump into a customer and I'm like oh yeah that's going to make a story and I'll put a note in my phone so that it will be there.
Jason Kauffman:the next time I'm like what story am I going to write? Now there's, I think, patience, like you said typing it out and then having the for me. Something that is a hard discipline for me is going back and redoing it and deleting a whole paragraph and rewriting it because I'm not happy with it. I tend to be like, oh, screw it, I'm done. But I know that in order to get it right I have to spend the time and then reading it out loud to my wife or my kids, I'll find stuff.
Sambassador:Oh, that's good.
Jason Kauffman:Yeah, that's a good idea, I can skim over it and I know what the story is supposed to say, and so I don't notice the mistakes sometimes until I read it out loud. And then I'm like, oh wait, that's actually the completely wrong word, or that sentence sounds weird once I read it out loud. Yeah, so I would say that. And then I have a?
Jason Kauffman:um, I have a geeky English major cousin who proof reads my stories okay so I'll send them to him, said you know, it takes him an hour or two and he just looks for punctuation and misspelling mistakes that I still miss, because I'm not that good at that yeah.
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Sambassador:Matt he's, Matt Poe's very good at staying on me about writing, you know, and he gives me subject matter like that last one. We're both in and I and I told him today. I said don't, don't stop doing that. Yeah, it's just. Uh, I get I guess it's called writer's block or whatever I get too busy doing other stuff and I, I just I don't want to write and I'm. I'm thankful that they don't require me to write every time, that they're cool with, and that they give me the grace that I can write in whenever I want to.
Jason Kauffman:It's been really cool to have that and to be able to do it Well and that's something that I mean when I talk to Matt and Marty about my health and my reasons for just having this. Like I got to pull back and take a break earlier this year and they were totally cool with it. And talking to Marty today, he just said whenever you want to write, yeah, we'll take another story yeah, yeah and so I am hoping to be able to put more in there.
Jason Kauffman:I am also and this has been a dream of mine I want to publish a book at some point, and to do that, I also want to put a lot of content in it that I have not published already, which will make it appealing for people to buy. And also book. It's a different format and I can add stuff to it that is a feature article in a magazine. It's a little harder.
Sambassador:Yeah, it's a little harder to do Cool. Do you have any good stories bubbling around in there that you're working on? Oh, do you have?
Jason Kauffman:any good stories bubbling around in there that you're working on.
Sambassador:Oh nothing you moved. What's his name's building again?
Jason Kauffman:Ziggy Robbins.
Sambassador:Yeah, ziggy, you haven't wrote about that yet, have you?
Jason Kauffman:That was my last story. Oh, it was your last. That was my last story.
Sambassador:The second, that was the last one where you actually the third time, the third time I moved, oh, the third time I moved.
Jason Kauffman:So that was literally. I mean, like he's the gift that keeps on giving.
Sambassador:That's pretty the first time I was there.
Jason Kauffman:I knew I had already started writing stories for Shed Builder and I knew, while I'm standing there, when he's climbing up the tree in his sandals with a chainsaw, cutting limbs off of his neighbor's tree so that I can get the shed past, I stood there just like in disbelief yeah, you're like, this is just gonna be another.
Sambassador:Is this good? Yeah?
Jason Kauffman:and then I go back and move it again and again like insane stuff comes up that that, like you can't make it up. And then the last time he's like, yeah, I need it moved here, and this is what I got to do and I'm going to build the fence. And then I show up and he's got a hole dug in the ground four feet deep, right next to the shed and I'm just looking at it like in disbelief, and he says well, what is this?
Jason Kauffman:the town won't let me put a 10-foot fence up, so I put a six-foot fence up and dug a four-foot hole. I don't want my neighbors seeing me sitting around the campfire and I just I, so he sits in the hole he sits in the hole and he landscaped the hole. The guy's like a manic energy the robot on I've. I've never seen the likes like his.
Sambassador:His buddies are all smoking pot I mean to place reeks of pot by the time I leave I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, get off yeah, but he pot mellows everyone else out.
Jason Kauffman:That I've ever seen.
Sambassador:They're just kind of slow.
Jason Kauffman:He's like a monkey on Red Bull. He is jumping and running around and shoveling gravel until there's three shovelfuls in the air before the fourth one hits him.
Sambassador:Yeah, I know exactly.
Jason Kauffman:I have a feeling at some point I'm going to interact with him again, Like it's just mind-boggling Like it's never going to end.
Sambassador:Yeah, it's never going to end. I mean after.
Jason Kauffman:So, the first time I was there and this was the part that blew my mind he's cutting his neighbor's trees down and his neighbor's got a gigantic maple tree on the border, but it's on his neighbor's property. It is not on his property. It ain't like the half the trees.
Sambassador:It is his neighbor's tree.
Jason Kauffman:And he's climbing up there and cutting limbs off that are six inches diameter, that are hanging over his property. I mean, the tree's getting completely butchered and I'm like the neighbor's going to come out and shoot us.
Jason Kauffman:Well it turns out he's like oh yeah, the neighbor ain't home, he's going to be fine. So, we put the building back in there and I'm like I'm leaving before the neighbor gets here. Yeah, for real. When I get called back two months later because the city said he couldn't have the building that close to the line and his building was like a half inch over the line, oh boy, and that city has a six-foot setback. Oh, yeah, yeah so, he's like oh, we've got to move it.
Jason Kauffman:When I showed up to move it, the tree's completely gone All the trees in the tree line were gone and I looked at it and I'm like, so what happened here? I'm not trying to pry too much, but I have a diet of curiosity and he's like, oh yeah, the neighbor's cut it all down. He paid me to cut all these trees down and do the landscaping around his property. You can't make that up like you cannot make up, no, a guy that butchers his neighbor's tree and then gets paid to clean them up the rest of the way that's.
Jason Kauffman:That's crazy oh my goodness yeah, you, you also uh.
Sambassador:You said something else I want to get back to. You said you've been in this industry, you've been in sheds a long time. Yeah, where do uh I'm? I'm trying to visit. Visualize I can't speak tonight a 10 year old Jason sitting in a school room and I told you I was gonna ask you this you know sitting 10 years old sitting in a school room, and so, at 10 years old, sitting in a school room, I'm dreaming of driving a dump truck. That's what I was doing. What were you?
Jason Kauffman:doing. Interestingly enough, I remember, as I would have been that eight, nine, ten years old. I remember dreaming of living out west and having a horse ranch oh, my dad worked in a pallet factory and he had a.
Jason Kauffman:My dad had been a farmer before I was born and even up until I was six years old, my dad was a farmer and he never got farming out of his blood. He's always. Even today he has horses and something around, but as a kid we had a milk cow I milked by hand, and we had some sheep and some beef cattle and a horse and a pony or whatever. There was always animals around our property.
Sambassador:Where were you living?
Jason Kauffman:Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania, yeah yeah, so we were. I grew up with animals and I loved horses and in my mind, like living out west on a horse ranch was like the dream. Yeah, well, in 1990 I was 11 years old and my dad up and moved our family don't try to figure out how old I am. No, I'm holding my head here.
Sambassador:You've got to go on YouTube to see this, because I'm just sitting here holding my head. In 1990, you were 11. Yeah, I got married in 90. And we're not that much difference in age.
Jason Kauffman:Yeah, but you got married young.
Sambassador:I did get married young. What were you? 20?, but no, I was 19. Okay, so we're eight years apart. Yeah, we're eight years apart, but at that point of life, eight years is a big deal. Yeah, it is now. It's not that much. I mean, like I literally consider you one of my best friends, one of my uh, what's the word equals?
Jason Kauffman:absolutely. I mean, I feel the same way you know what I'm saying when there's someone I'm like, this is someone that I'll bounce ideas off of, and this is someone that I consider a friend that's been a friend for a long time.
Sambassador:Yeah, as you, and we've not really been that long. I mean it's starting to get longer.
Jason Kauffman:I mean we met on Facebook in 17, maybe the hauler page was 10 years old last month.
Sambassador:Wow, years old last month, wow, and in a way it's like that's a long time.
Jason Kauffman:But then in another way it's like, seriously, it's only been 10 years so you and I were put in as moderators on that page or administrators on the page about nine years ago, and I think that's when we started connecting well, I was. I was actually put in the day it started okay, yeah, and then you showed up about a year later, um, but it's okay, let's get back to 11 years old at 90 because I just it's like wait a minute, like I'm thinking about the kids that were nine years old when I got married and they were a little brat.
Sambassador:Yeah, for real, you know it's. So, here's another thing I do. We're just gonna rabbit trail, hold on to 11 years old. Um, when I got out of school yeah, now I'm, I'm like you, I'm. I'm not a high school dropout. I wasn't allowed to go to high school. Yeah, I wanted to. I begged my dad. I wanted to be an architect, get my architect degree and stuff. Well, you got to go to high school and you got to go to college. And no, I literally went out and learned how to build houses. That's what we did. And 12 years old, I was slinging cheat rock and mudding it and framing and stuff like that. But I remember, when I got out of school, the kids that were being born. That was a huge age gap. Yeah, they were non-existent in age gap.
Jason Kauffman:Yeah, they were, they were non-existent.
Sambassador:Most of the most of the haulers are younger than that. They weren't even born.
Jason Kauffman:They weren't even born. Okay, okay, I want to know something. Mind boggling is look how many haulers can't remember 9/11. Yeah, or Y2K?
Sambassador:or Y2 K? Y2K's? Those are things in our lives that are massive. That happened really close and they were massive things. Oh yeah, they were.
Jason Kauffman:I remember where I was sitting when I heard about the planes hitting the towers.
Sambassador:Yeah, and I remember the apprehension leading up for six months to Y2K and even the last few hours like what's going to happen. The lights are going to go off. One of the biggest parties I throw big parties One of the biggest parties I've ever thrown was on the night of Y2K and we stayed up. We didn't just stay up till midnight, we stayed up till the sun came up and I had people there from four states and we didn't have Facebook or nothing.
Sambassador:I don't even know how they found us. You know what I'm saying.
Jason Kauffman:Well speaking in 2000,. You got married in 1990. I got married in 99.
Sambassador:Oh, you did Nine years later, nine years later, so you weren't much older than me.
Jason Kauffman:That's 20, 25 days five days after my 20th birthday I got married I was, I was literally like five.
Sambassador:Well, I turned 19 in September and got married in November, so I had a little more than five days after 19, but close. Thank you all for listening to today's episode. This was part one of a two-part episode, so be sure to listen next week to finish today's podcast.