Shed Geek Podcast
The Shed Geek Podcast offers an in depth analysis of the ever growing and robust Shed Industry. Listeners will experience a variety of guests who identify or specialize in particular niche areas of the Shed Industry. You will be engaged as you hear amateur and professional personalities discuss topics such as: Shed hauling, sales, marketing, Rent to Own, shed history, shed faith, and much more. Host Shannon Latham is a self proclaimed "Shed Geek" who attempts to take you through discussions that are as exciting as the industry itself. Listeners of this podcast include those who play a role directly or indirectly with the Shed Industry itself.
Shed Geek Podcast
Building Prosperity in the Shed Market with Expert Insights PART 2
Unlock the secrets of the shed hauling industry as we bust myths and shed light on what it truly takes to succeed in this niche market. It’s not just about hopping into a truck; it demands a specialized skill set, significant startup capital, and the wisdom of seasoned mentors like Tyler. We promise to guide you through the complexities of the business model, emphasize the crucial role of education and innovation, and explore the exciting new technologies shaping the future of shed hauling.
Our discussion dives into the intricacies of equipment financing, a vital lifeline for many in the industry. Cardinal Leasing emerges as a key player, offering flexible financial solutions that fuel growth with their innovative weekly loan system. We illuminate the streamlined process of acquiring equipment loans and share insights on the importance of understanding financing as a temporary tool rather than a financial crutch. By leveraging our strong banking relationships, we ensure competitive rates and swift transactions, bringing you closer to the equipment you need to thrive.
We wrap up by navigating the broader business landscape, from the challenges of rapid expansion in the rent-to-own sector to the resilient community ties that hold this industry together. Our conversation takes a lighter turn with anecdotes from our adventurous escapades with the Kaufman boys. Through practical advice and a touch of humor, we invite you to join us on this enlightening journey, celebrating the vibrant, ever-evolving world of shed hauling.
For more information or to know more about the Shed Geek Podcast visit us at our website.
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To suggest show topics or ask questions you want answered email us at info@shedgeek.com.
This episodes Sponsors:
Studio Sponsor: Union Grove Lumber
Shed Challenger
Cardinal Leasing
Cardinal Manufacturing
Welcome back to part two of a two-part episode. Be sure to go back and listen to part one. You might've missed something. Hope you enjoy the conversation today. I eavesdropped on a conversation out there between two rigs today and they were talking about you can't just take a truck driver and make a shed hauler out of them. You know, just because you're a good truck driver does not mean you're a good shed hauler. And it just hit me again that it is a unique business model in the fact that you have to have you got to know.
SAMBASSADOR:I mean, we learned today, you got to learn how to deal with customers yeah um, you got to know how to drive a rig, you got to know how to run a mule, you got to know how to handle all these different situations and you got to know how to kind of halfway tell what level is or not. Yeah, you know it's. It's such a wide variety of stuff you have to do that it takes and the equipment makes it easier. Yeah. So, I'm not particularly fond of telling somebody that they can get into this business for 50 grand. I did. But I don't think it's real smart to tell somebody they can do that and three months down the road they're frustrated and they lost 50. Like if they would have spent 150, they'd probably stay in business. So, I guess there's two sides to the ditch I'm trying to say yeah.
SAMBASSADOR:You know what I'm saying. You can't, and if you go hauling for some of these companies, these guys are hauling for you, have to have a certain amount of equipment to handle what they want you to do. Yeah.
JONATHAN MILLER:Yeah, you just really hardly can get started for 50 anymore.
SAMBASSADOR:No.
JONATHAN MILLER:I mean, I mean, you're probably up comfortable.
JONATHAN MILLER:You know, to be reasonable, realistic, you should be up closer to 75 to 100. Bottom line, on the bottom side of it, to really get to really be successful. Otherwise you're going to really and there are some niche. There's some niche stuff that you can do If you're wanting to move just custom buildings and or just and there's, and that's a really good market too if you want to move just movers and stuff for anybody.
JONATHAN MILLER:That can be done with less small trailer small mule and um, but it's, but it's not going to be steady, like calling for a company but um
SHED GEEK:I wrote an article kind of leading to the one-size-fits-all model and I was like you know, there's just so many different ways you can be successful. I think that sometimes we fall victim to being in the one-size-fits-all, like what your experience was.
SHED GEEK:I'll tell you here's a good example. We had this conversation earlier. I didn't grow up in the Anabaptist community and I remember when it hit me it might've been Richard Miller that said it, but someone said it. If you know one Amish person, you've met one Amish person.
JONATHAN MILLER:If you are not Amish, everyone's Amish.
SHED GEEK:They're the same but in the story right. Same with Baptist, Pentecostal, you name it, whatever you go through any denomination, but it's that way's that way in in any company setting or anything too, like I dealt with these guys so like they're all this way, or uh, this guy's a shed hauler, so I need to do it this way?
SHED GEEK:are we allowing ourselves to open up even the possibility that there's different options, not label everyone, that it has to be this one size fits all, because there's a lot of guys who are doing things that are very unique and being successful at them, but it goes along with your point. There's still a bare minimum in some ways that it seems you need to get in, but maybe you don't have to have the biggest truck, the coolest truck, the nicest paint job, the best wheels, everything decked out and all that right off the bat.
JONATHAN MILLER:It's just hard, though. If somebody's getting in, though, and they're getting started and they don't have a lot of experience or very little experience, what they really need is like Sam Sworey or somebody like what you were just saying, Tyler. They need somebody to bounce stuff off of. Oh yeah, because otherwise you can do that. Obviously, the type of stuff that we deal with is like you can still buy a trailer for $20,000. And you can find some old trailers, but I've seen time and time again where you know, instead of buying the $20,000 trailer, you buy the $50,000 trailer and make way, way, way more money.
SAMBASSADOR:Oh yeah.
JONATHAN MILLER:Because you can deliver twice as many buildings and not be broke down. But if you don't know that coming in, you're going to buy something cheap that looks like it might work.
TYLER SHULTZ:And you're working on it all the time, oh yeah, and then breakdowns. The expensive part is the lost income, not the parts. 100%.
SAMBASSADOR:You lose more in lost income than you do fixing whatever you're doing. Now that part does go across the trucking industry.
SAMBASSADOR:It's very seldom, unless you buy a cat, then you're going to spend so much money that it costs more to fix the motor than your downtime does or a Ford, or a Ford, or a ford um, it's you going back to what you said about what you can haul with that 53 foot trailer versus the 36 foot trailer. You know, um, you're pulling the same thing down the road, basically burning the same fuel. It's very little more cost in pulling the extra, and the way a lot of our systems are set up with sheds right now, you get paid to haul the extra shed. It's like you were saying, and it's not just an extra shed a month, it's an extra shed every couple days and it adds up to a lot of money. I didn't, you know. For me that was not an issue, it didn't make any difference. Um, but that that is I don't know.
SAMBASSADOR:75, 80 percent of the sheds we're seeing hauled today are being hauled on rigs where they have multiple sheds, and that extra 16 foot adds up to an extra shed every couple days. That's a big deal. It's a huge deal. Yeah, and they're hauling them a long ways, you know. Look at another thing. You see twice as many semis now as you did.
TYLER SHULTZ:Yeah, you know, it used to be mostly pickup trucks and a couple random semis seems like since I've started, there is starting to be a big split in the shed hauling. There's the guys that are trying to stay under cdl regulations, and then everybody else is starting to head for yeah personally, I don't think you should be allowed to haul oversize without having cdl, but I'll I get some agreement. I also don't think you should be able to pull uh camper trailers without a cdl.
SAMBASSADOR:Well, at least the big motor homes, like Jonathan hasn't seen my wife on the motor home. Yeah, I know, I don't that that doesn't bother me so much you know.
SAMBASSADOR:Yeah, I it's. I hate regulations, but in certain things, if you're going to have it anyway, like it, it just. It makes no sense to me how I have to have a commercial driver's license to haul a 35,000-pound down. No, I'm going to get in trouble. 37,000-pound load down the road, but I don't have to to haul a 14 by 80 building. That doesn't weigh enough. You know what I'm saying, because there's a whole lot more risk in the one than the other. I don't know, it's just yes, I don't know it's, it's just yes, I don't like regulations.
SHED GEEK:You think you could ever get like a uh state, municipal or state worker on a podcast to talk about regulation.
SAMBASSADOR:Well, there's a guy in Columbia, South Carolina, named Melvin, that I established a good enough relationship with back in the mid-90s that I probably could, but he probably wouldn't say anything that he's you know. He'd be like, well, I can't talk about that, or I can't talk about this or whatever. And I actually know a couple of DOT guys. There again, it's interpretation of law. One DOT guy will tell you can do one thing, another one will tell you something else. That's why I fondly refer to them as revenuers because, that's all they are you pay the
SAMBASSADOR:right amount of money, you can do whatever you want to do. It's all about the money Tax collectors. They're tax collectors. I call them the external Instead of the internal revenue service. They're the external revenue service, that's all they are.
TYLER SHULTZ:They. They're the internal revenue service, they're the external revenue service. That's all they are. They contribute to some burnout.
SAMBASSADOR:Oh yes, it does contribute to burnout. Honestly, when I finally got fed up and said I had enough was after I had like three of them in a week from two different drivers, me being one of them, and you know it was like we were getting hit every day in Florida for no reason whatsoever and I'm like you know what? I don't get paid enough to do this. I'm going to go find something else to do.
SHED GEEK:So, like when you get Like a ticket and it's like your rig's not safe for our roads, You're like your roads are not safe for my rig.
SAMBASSADOR:Yes, they don't like that answer for some reason. Sam can definitely speak to that, living in South Carolina, safe for my rig.
TYLER SHULTZ:Good luck telling them that they don't like that answer for some reason. Sam can definitely speak to that. Living in South Carolina.
SAMBASSADOR:We got three-bedroom apartments out in the middle of 85. They're just under the ground. You fall in those suckers. You can't get back out of them. I will say this as bad as South Carolina is, I travel enough that there are some other states that just make me thank the good Lord that I live in South Carolina. It's incredible. Our road system is way outdated, for whatever that's worth. Where do you want to go? Where do you see Cardinal Leasing going in the next five years?
JONATHAN MILLER:I don't have a good answer for that, to be honest. I mean, so I think that just from a big picture, from a cardinal leasing side, equipment financing, leasing the rent down stuff we do, I'm not sure what's going to change. I don't. I guess I honestly don't see any real big change right now in the, in the in the next five years you brought Tyler on board.
JONATHAN MILLER:You're happy with where you're going yeah, I'm happy with where we're going. I, I my goal is to keep doing, seeing what we can do to better, to somehow improve things a little bit more, because I think they're. I just, I think the drivers. You asked earlier about the weak link on the whole system and I, I personally still think the weakest link probably is drivers like you know, Tyler said driver burnout and that that that really factors in.
JONATHAN MILLER:But, um, you know, maybe the drivers need an NBSRA type of deal or something like that to help them. I mean which you've got, the shed holders brotherhood, but I don't know how active that like how many guys, you've got in that, but to somehow get more guys pulling together to know where they need to be and to be successful.
SAMBASSADOR:Well, you mentioned education, and that's something I think we need to start working on.
JONATHAN MILLER:I think it's huge yeah.
SAMBASSADOR:Yeah, it's. I see a lot of guys. I see a lot of success stories because I hear about them behind the scenes, but there's a lot of guys that fall through the cracks. Oh yeah, that the problem. The problem is in order to be a good shed hauler, you don't want to listen to anybody else. That know, the guy that has the getter done, whatever it takes attitude, doesn't tend to listen very well to everybody else. So, we have to come up with a way to educate that makes everybody all nice and warm and fuzzy, and that's something I think we can work on in the industry. I love the fact that you brought a hauler on board to help with this.
JONATHAN MILLER:I think for us that's been, you know that's been, that's been, that's been. That's huge. Yeah, like I think. And you know with Tyler, with him hauling, you know spending four years out there hauling if guys are calling him to try to figure out what a solution is for them. I mean he's, he's done that, he's been there done that and he knows what they're dealing with and he knows how frustrating it is when things aren't going good and so it makes it so much easier. Yeah.
SAMBASSADOR:So, you mentioned something today that I knew about but I don't think most guys know about. You're not just Cardinal Leasing. As far as leasing equipment, You're actually helping people with finance side.
JONATHAN MILLER:Yeah Now, you want to talk about that a little bit? Sure, I mean, I think that's yeah. I don't know how many people know about that.
SAMBASSADOR:I know we haven't pushed it real hard.
JONATHAN MILLER:But that is I don't know what number like if we look over the last couple of months. Tyler, I don't know if you have a number off the top of your head as far as quantity, but I know you know, if I look at the numbers coming through and I don't see all of them, but I would say we do probably at least a couple of loans a week on an average, and I've seen it up to you know, three, four or five loans a week with just conventional loans. That's been huge, that's getting more and more.
SAMBASSADOR:You're good with that Totally.
JONATHAN MILLER:The funny thing about it is and totally being transparent here, I get $150 to do that.
SAMBASSADOR:That's what we get paid for.
JONATHAN MILLER:You're not making any money on that we're not making any money on it at all it's a total pass through and basically we get paid $150 to connect the dots and handle the paperwork, connect it with the bank and we pass it on over and it's just a bank loan. That's all. It is Nothing fancy. I always tell people if they have got a really good relationship with their banker and they have got a plan, go for it, Go do it.
TYLER SHULTZ:No problem.
JONATHAN MILLER:But this is basically. We've got a set of people with the bank that we're set up with that you know, a set of people that just know what trailers and mules are.
TYLER SHULTZ:Yeah.
SAMBASSADOR:And they've got.
JONATHAN MILLER:I have no idea how many, you know 100 units that we've got financed over the last couple of years, over the last six, eight years now with them and they love it and, honestly, like I just had a, you know we just met, we were it's been a couple months ago, we were, you know, Tyler and I had actually met with the bank again.
TYLER SHULTZ:Just kind of catch up it was right at the time Tyler started.
JONATHAN MILLER:I'm like, hey, let's go up, sit down with these guys, and at that time they told us they had not had a single bad experience. Wow, and I know I've been copying on an email since then.
SAMBASSADOR:I'm not sure how that all worked out. Don't ever want to get copied in emails.
JONATHAN MILLER:Or no, actually I take that back. I got sent an email so I tagged Tyler on it.
SAMBASSADOR:Oh my gosh, so I was the guy, Poor Tyler's, the guy that got copied. I'm like hey.
TYLER SHULTZ:Tyler could you take care of this?
JONATHAN MILLER:one here and see what she can do. But what I'm saying is they like it.
SAMBASSADOR:They really like it.
SAMBASSADOR:And so, they've been doing some really good rates and they're just really good to work with. Yeah, I know, in let me think a minute 2014, when I went into my local bank that I'd been banking with for 15 years. You know I went in there and you know I told them you try to explain to them that, hey, I need this piece of equipment and you know it's a little machine that looks a little bit like a forklift but it does this and moves buildings, and you know, and I want $18,000. Yeah, you know, now they're at some 55, you know, and I wanted 18. She's like you're going to have to explain this a little better to me. You know, how can this little machine cost so much money, exactly? And I'm like, well, don't look at it that way, look at the amount of money it's going to make us. You know, not everybody has the ability to go in a bank and have that credibility set up to where, basically, she told me she'll give it to me because she knows me.
JONATHAN MILLER:Yeah.
SAMBASSADOR:You know, so we have to have better options out there. I love the fact that you actually promote your leasing side as a short-term fix. You know, do this work on it and get out of it.
SAMBASSADOR:Yep, you know and I love that part of it I don't think sometimes I feel like we need to work, like I can help you work better on that part. That it's you know we're. It's the nature of the beast, that it is what it is, but don't let it become a crutch to you. Yeah, it can, yeah, it can, it can.
JONATHAN MILLER:Yeah, don't let it become a crutch to you yeah, it can, yeah it can, it can, and you know it can be and it can actually be successful doing that. I've had guys where you know it's going to be short-term and then you know, six months down the road, instead of paying that, instead of, you know, switching that, or paying that off. We add another piece, and another piece, and another piece. It truly works.
JONATHAN MILLER:You know, yeah, but, but it but just be careful like you know, like Tyler saying you know your numbers, know where you're at yeah, and just because I mean because it is easy.
JONATHAN MILLER:It is easy like if I mean if you call Tyler and you've got a piece of equipment, he can have the money wired this afternoon and say you know, send you the paperwork, sign it and go, and it is way easier than setting up an appointment next week with a banker and trying to figure out what you're going to do and, um, that's, that's exactly what I.
SAMBASSADOR:One of the things I wanted to get at yet, was the fact that our equipment moves so fast. Yeah, that by the time you go in and talk to your bank and they talk to their people, and their people talk back to them, and by the time it comes, the equipment's gone. Yeah, we've seen this happen so many times over and over. You know, and that's a point I wanted to make was the fact that you guys can move fairly fast.
JONATHAN MILLER:Yeah, I mean, we can like. I've seen you guys move in most cases within a couple of hours. Seriously, it can be done. And if it's equipment, you know, if it's trailers and stuff, we'll put the tags on and everything Like it'll be ready to go. Like we can make it happen, get you on the road and you're going Yep, and so it's a huge advantage in some of those cases.
SHED GEEK:I'm curious at your thoughts on like because you are so knowledgeable about the equipment side, but also the building side. Where do you think finance has?
JONATHAN MILLER:its place in the structures side, and is that something you guys do or plan to? So, we're actually currently using the same bank with buildings, but it's on a much smaller level. I think it has its place. I don't think. I think the dollar amounts are so much lower that there's not as much difference, and maybe that's just my perspective. It probably is because, you know, on the one minute we're talking about $150,000. The next minute we're talking about $10,000. I'm saying, well, you save $1,000. Who cares? But it's $1,000.
SAMBASSADOR:Yeah, there is a big difference there.
JONATHAN MILLER:You know, if the customer saves money, that's what they want, and so I think there's definitely a need for it and a market for it. But it's not something we're doing in-house currently, but it is something we're working with the same bank actually and um, but it's always it's like probably like a lot of guys are doing, you know, dabbling with it, and RTO National does pretty good at it actually like doing the whole thing together. Most companies don't do the whole thing together, and so it's so it's like here's a secondary option you do it, but it's not.
JONATHAN MILLER:It's just not very smooth and um and so, whereas everybody pretty much now, if you're gonna hey, your same point of sale system, whatever else you got, just fill it out. It's so easy. It's so easy, just do it. But I would like to see more of it. I don't see it at all as competing with the rent down market, with the rent down market, like I think it's. I think in the same way, if it helps the customer. I mean every time, in all of these situations, if the customer wins, we win, like it truly works that way.
SHED GEEK:Like that's like 100% of the time that's what happens, and sometimes that means we make less money on one deal, but in the big picture it's always better that way, I'm always looking so like we haven't really put a whole lot out there publicly yet and I can't go out with my means and start a whole finance program, but I've done a really good job of like partnering with people and one thing I found real quick was like there's just not that appetite for those, typically for those FICO scores that are 500, 600, 650. You know you get to about 680. You know that's where you know you're getting good prime credit. You know they typically got good debt to income. But I mean you see what happens with, like these big banks. You know, and what's the average home I don't know Home of a hoarding? Yeah, $400,000,.
JONATHAN MILLER:I don't know. That's what the average is right now.
SHED GEEK:But you know so there's much bigger fish in the pond for these banks that to go after an unsecured loan, you know, for $6,000, $10,000, $12,000, they don't have a big appetite. And so, a lot of people just sit back and say and we could probably have a whole podcast over this rent-to-own is expensive, we need another option. We've got to start with the misnomer of rent-to-own being expensive and we can do that. And if you don't know, go back and listen to Richard Miller's podcast episode. That'll solve that for you. But you know it.
SHED GEEK:It's one of those things where it's like until it gets competitive. Yeah, like rent to own is, in my opinion, that the deal starts working out best for the consumer, because you're just not going to get someone with stress strained or poor credit and credit history getting a prime rate at a low credit score. So, until banks get competitive. But it has to start somewhere, yeah, and like until some more people jump into and it will take its tole a bit on RTO, because it can have, you know, you can have more customers, but I think it's really just a matter of like doing what's best for your customer.
JONATHAN MILLER:Yeah, If you do that, Sam and I have had this conversation. Sam has bugged me and says hey, you know, we've got to come up with something on equipment between doing leases and finance. There's got to be some middle ground. Yeah, and I'm not saying there's not. I mean I'm not saying that's not possible, but there obviously hasn't been. For myself just hasn't been a lot of appetite for it, because I know what happens on the equipment. I know what happens and Sam knows what happens sometimes.
SHED GEEK:It gets beat up.
JONATHAN MILLER:Yeah, I mean, we deal like no.
SHED GEEK:It is disappointing they leave them sitting on the side of the interstate in Georgia.
TYLER SHULTZ:Oh boy.
SAMBASSADOR:We just opened up a can of worms.
JONATHAN MILLER:But if we do a really good job at helping those people phase us out or keep them educated, it works really well. It really works really well and I'll be honest over the last four you know, four years, since you know, I like the way Tyler said that. I mean he's one of the 2020 group, but you know, through this last four years, this is not it's the 90-10% deal, but it might even have been higher than 10% over the last four years. There's more bad apples out there and we've found some of them.
SAMBASSADOR:Oh yeah, you will Yep, and so
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SHED GEEK:What about these theft rings Like I mean should we? We can edit all that. I'm just saying what about like this, I mean all these rumors. What about all these rumors of like you know all the buildings going missing and organized theft and things like that, and how can you protect against that? I mean, those are conversations that I didn't hear 12 years ago, didn't hear five years ago and I don't think I heard three years ago, like wow, I mean spotty stuff was happening three years ago probably.
JONATHAN MILLER:Yeah, but I've seen a lot more. And I mean, obviously we've had it on equipment too. Yeah, just for the record.
SAMBASSADOR:I've seen it back in 2016, 2017, and that's already seven years ago. It's a little hard to believe 2017, 2017. Yeah, that's true, but there was very much organized theft going on with sheds.
SHED GEEK:They just had three buildings go missing from Highland, Illinois. Yeah, I saw that on the page last week.
JONATHAN MILLER:So, I had posted that Martin's had three missing, but there was Millers at Arthur had another two or three on that same lot. Wow, got pulled off over the weekend yeah that's wild it's crazy yes um, I mean we were for a while there. Yeah, we weren't too worried about it, but we've been. We've been more concerned because we've had stuff yeah, you know it's, it's um.
SAMBASSADOR:So, you know what? What you guys were talking back and forth about a little bit about why would a lending company lend 10 grand out on something when they can lend one guy 250 grand instead of having to have 25 guys? It's always more risk to do that. But going to any little town that has I don't know, I'm going to shoot a wild number here 15,000 people in it and you'll find four small finance companies, the Green Trees, whatever they are.
JONATHAN MILLER:First, Franklin, all those little guys, something's happening.
SAMBASSADOR:Those guys aren't just loaning out. You know they're doing the little. Well, I don't back when I was using them to sell sheds. You know doing the little. What I don't back when I was using them to sell sheds, you know the branch manager could approve up to 6 500 bucks without anything, and that covered most of my sheds. I forgot about that.
JONATHAN MILLER:We were using American General for a while. Yeah, they were one of those, so those guys were doing that.
SAMBASSADOR:So, there is there's somebody's picking up that piece of the pie and using it. But I know for me personally, if I can have one client at $250,000 versus 10 of them at $25,000 or 25 of them at $10,000, which way am I going to go? So, I don't know. It's a little bit. So, you have to make a little better money on those smaller ones to cover your risk, because you have more risk. You have 10 times more people.
SHED GEEK:That's something that will probably surprise people and, Jonathan, I know you could speak to that in the RTO world that would probably blow the socks off of most people the amount of risk versus the reward that you actually make, because there's been some obviously successful RTO companies and like they can push dollars around and things like that. But uh, you might be surprised at what they had to go through to get to where they are because it's yeah there's a lot of risk out there, and it doesn't take but one bad apple to really run an RTO company.
SAMBASSADOR:Yeah, you can, yeah you know, you can have a, you can have a pretty strong rent-to-own company and if they run into that one bad deal, it changes in a hurry. Well, and there's no regulation, have you?
SHED GEEK:noticed there's no regulation.
SHED GEEK:Me and Dennis were talking about that no there's no regulation to sign people up, and I think RTO companies were just as bad as the other companies who are like, hey, I'm tired of this dealer, bring me your. The other companies who are like, hey, I'm tired of this dealer, bring me your. I think RTO companies are the same way, like oh, that guy couldn't service you, you know like we'll take you on and there's no to me. That's where the NBSR I know you can't make a blacklist and all that stuff. I know there's some legalities and I don't need Edwin breathing down my neck or anything, you know. So, I'm not trying to stir up anything.
SHED GEEK:So, I'm not trying to stir up anything I'm just saying it seems like that's where we could do a better job of coming together to eliminate those dealers and customers who default. Not just default, but they're thieves, thieves.
SAMBASSADOR:Thank you, I was going to say troublesome. You can cut that out. No, it's just calling it what it is but yeah, no, you're right, what it is.
JONATHAN MILLER:Yeah, you know, and um, but um, yeah, no, you're right, and I, I think, I think, though I've you know from my, from my side, and I'm not from, yeah, from a business side big picture. We haven't been trying to take over the world, like a lot of these guys have been over the last five years and um, but even those that have been trying to see what all they can do, the appetite has really softened over the last year.
SAMBASSADOR:Oh, thank you, that's a very recognizable point.
JONATHAN MILLER:I wholeheartedly agree. I mean so it's gone from where and obviously we've seen it on equipment, so like, if we look at the whole industry, shannon's biting his lip.
SHED GEEK:I'll go as far, as far to say if you are signing up with an RTO company, you need to understand. This is going to get me in trouble isn't it?
SAMBASSADOR:I can feel it. You feel the Holy Spirit every time you shut your mouth.
SHED GEEK:It doesn't mean they have money. It means they have access to money.
SAMBASSADOR:in most cases, Okay, but even take it a step further. Some do, some do have money. It means they have access to money in most cases. Yeah, okay, but even take it a step. Some do, some do have money.
SHED GEEK:I'm saying I get that, yeah, you know what I mean. But in most cases you have access to money, so it's still back to a know your numbers game. Yeah, because if you don't, and they hitting one down, one down payment 60 months on 97% of their contracts. They're trying to sell off a $10 million portfolio.
SHED GEEK:And you're like you just handed me a bunch of junk contracts or immature contracts. That's why the banks are pulling back because you're trying to grow at such a rapid pace. It's like the guy that was making $25,000 making $100,000. You need those years of struggle because the bank's going to yank their money and I don't want to get in trouble. I'm not trying to call anyone out or anything like that, it's just, yeah, I mean, private equity is still a good thing. Just saying and I'm far from being super knowledgeable about this, I'm learning every day, Jonathan, so like you could school me on all of this, no, you're on the right track there.
JONATHAN MILLER:I mean you're, I think it is like I just you know. Basically, where I was going is. So, you're talking about how to rent to own companies. Maybe we could do a better job of actually weeding out dealers and stuff. What I'm saying is flip the coin a little bit, though, too. If you're the dealer, which you pretty much said it for me if you're the dealer, be careful who you sign up with too, because you want a system that works, and it's just been. Everybody's been struggling a bit more Ask questions Vet the process.
SHED GEEK:You know what I mean. Like gosh find a consultation group somewhere and ask them to kind of help guide you, or something that's not a Facebook page. Right, good point.
SAMBASSADOR:Some nights I'm sitting there on my couch and you know some guy gets on there. Nobody has researched the guy. Nobody knows the guy. You know he's Mr., I don't I can't use any name, because every name I bring up, it refers to somebody. You can use my name. But yeah, okay, Mr. Jonathan comes on, says hey, I need a rent dome company.
SAMBASSADOR:Well, somebody came here and 15 companies get listed and I'm sitting there and I'm like what are we doing? Like we're going to give a reference over the phone and we've seen this. They go sign the guy up without ever doing any. You know calling anybody. Have you used another rent-down company before? Or you know why are you looking for one? Oh no, you've got to use this company. It's like when you know you see this on my personal page when they ask about where they should go to church, yes, and I'm like did you ever think about asking the Lord where you should go to church instead of the community page and everybody's?
SAMBASSADOR:like oh you got to go here because they have the best kids program anybody has.
SHED GEEK:Or you got to go over here because we have better worship service. My favorite on that is always like, yeah, we can't, we don't want to go here because they don't have a good program. I'm like you ever consider the lord's calling you to start a kids program, you know? Or?
SAMBASSADOR:like I'll be honest with you. Um, you know, I heard a pastor on Thursday night just flat out tell a group of 200 men you know what. We need to back off on kids programs.
SHED GEEK:We need to focus on men's programs oh, man, and I want to stand up amen get the men to church. You typically get the family right yeah.
SAMBASSADOR:Yeah, but we have that backwards. You get the family and you'll get the men. I've heard that from the pulpit. And it's the same way. You know it's. I don't there again. I hate legislation, but it's like you can literally just walk into an office and sign a guy up on a rental. You know, that's one thing Dave was really good at, though Miller yeah, Dave Miller, he's picky about his paperwork.
SHED GEEK:Yeah.
SAMBASSADOR:You know, you don't just give him a million-dollar check and say here, go invest my money. He's like whoa, whoa, whoa. We're going to sign some papers.
SHED GEEK:Addressing your Facebook comment. I must be just ready to end my career. Today, it's a popularity contest.
SAMBASSADOR:Yes, yeah, a hundred percent.
SHED GEEK:It's a popularity contest.
SAMBASSADOR:On the church or the rent-to-own company yeah, or the manufacturer.
SHED GEEK:I think some people are like I'm genuinely happy, I want to refer my company.
SAMBASSADOR:Oh, I'm not saying that. Yeah, I agree. You know what I mean.
SHED GEEK:I believe that to be true, but typically speaking, it's like it becomes and it's like wait a minute, we're not in this for popularity contest. Honestly, a lot of good companies typically get mentioned, just like a lot of good equipment options, or you know what I mean. Like whatever it is. Uh, uh, you know we we've tried not to make an enemy out of any of our competition in marketing.
TYLER SHULTZ:Yeah.
SHED GEEK:Because we're just like, hey, it'd be better to be friends with them. Because this is what happens. Jonathan, tell me I'm wrong. Hey, we're thinking about leaving our marketing company and coming over to you guys, so I'm supposed to get giddy and all excited that you're coming over until I don't investigate and find out what's going on, because I know who you're coming from and they're a good company. Why are you leaving? Why are you leaving? They're a pretty good company.
JONATHAN MILLER:I'm gonna have to dive into that a little bit because you're 100 bucks cheaper. They're gonna leave you again once you're 100 bucks well, or if they're leaving because of a simple misunderstanding.
SHED GEEK:They're gonna leave us too. We're going to last very long. So I mean, it's the same with rto. It's the same as if you leave one of the one who you're with selling sheds right now, especially if you're on a consignment lot. Like I said, I might as well just quit today. I don't know what you. Somebody slips up in my drink or what, but I'm normally never this so from now on, we're just going to refer cardinal leasing.
SAMBASSADOR:Yeah, it's going to be tyler, though, because Slip something in my drink or what, but I'm normally never this loose on my tongue.
JONATHAN MILLER:So, from now on, we're just going to refer Cardinal Leasing to everything. It's going to be Tyler, though, because Tyler had this funny joke. This is actually hilarious. When we were talking, we were talking about slow times in the winter and stuff so he had mentioned that he switched and started hauling for this local company and I don't even know who this is, so I'm not going to mention any names. So, he switched and started hauling for this local company.
SAMBASSADOR:And I don't even know who this is, so I'm not going to mention any names, so hopefully I won't get myself in trouble. Oh, now you're going to burn your bridges.
JONATHAN MILLER:Maybe I shouldn't say this no, we're going. Okay. So, he said for three years he hauled for this company and every winter they were busy and it's like that's weird.
SAMBASSADOR:Well, he said, every winter we changed hands stands.
TYLER SHULTZ:well, that's a good point.
SAMBASSADOR:You can't do it in the summertime, you're too busy, exactly so you have to do it. They started to get stable this year, so I needed to find I was worried, something else to do. Yeah, I'm worried about winter work. No, winter work.
SHED GEEK:Yeah, I would much rather pick up a client on my merits and on the things we qualify with in a cool, calm and collected matter. I'd never really. It's almost a red flag immediately for them to call them up and be like this company's you know messing me around over here and you're like maybe, yeah, might be true, it might be true.
SAMBASSADOR:Well, okay, so part of that's just you're gaining wisdom as you go along, and that's part of life. We should all be going through that. Yeah, you know, I've learned not to do some of the same stuff.
SHED GEEK:True.
SAMBASSADOR:Yeah, Like I won't tell somebody not to go buy a Ford anymore, I'll tell them to go find out if there's a good Ford dealership in their town, which there's not going to be.
JONATHAN MILLER:But they have to go find that out. I wonder where this is going.
SAMBASSADOR:But you know it's the same. We see guys come in, you know and I hate to use the fact that we've been around a long time, but after you've been around a while, you just it start. The experience starts stacking up and it's like
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SAMBASSADOR:you know and you don't.
JONATHAN MILLER:We don't need more experience, we've already had no, I don't want anymore and you don't want done and you don't want other people to go through some of the things that you've gone through.
SAMBASSADOR:But then other times I look at them. I'm like you know what, just go that route, that's. You know, that's fine um yeah, sometimes you just gotta yeah, and I do believe you are right. I feel like 99 of the time the referrals are given from people who are excited about who they're referring.
SHED GEEK:And you hope so, and.
SAMBASSADOR:I like to see that.
SHED GEEK:Even if they're referring my company. I'm always kind of like hey, make sure you're happy with us, Does that?
SAMBASSADOR:anonymous button still work on your page. Yeah, I might just go on there and be like instead of y'all referring programs to me, who do you not refer?
JONATHAN MILLER:I love that. Be careful man. No, I was like.
SHED GEEK:Well, I would go far enough to say probably don't get your referral from Facebook.
SAMBASSADOR:Well, that's my point.
SHED GEEK:Matter of fact. If you do, and if you do see names on there, call every one of them.
SAMBASSADOR:Yeah.
SHED GEEK:Call every one of them and interview every one of them.
SAMBASSADOR:You know, my favorite answer has now become there's multiple ones.
SHED GEEK:Oh, even call the ones not listed.
SAMBASSADOR:Yeah, you have to find the one that fits you. Why would you make such an important decision based off of one phone call?
SHED GEEK:Yeah, or one recommendation on a Facebook post or something. They're pretty good pretty much anymore.
SAMBASSADOR:You can have a firestorm in about three hours. If you ask for some, they're going to give you, you know yeah, what's kind of interesting is.
JONATHAN MILLER:Early on you said, yeah, I've been on your Facebook page for a long time and I have, but I but I bet, if you would like. I'm not a social media person. Yeah and um, probably. If you go back and look, I wonder if I put 10 posts on the Shed haulers page total, or 20 maybe.
SAMBASSADOR:I doubt it, but I like to listen.
JONATHAN MILLER:I can actually look. You should look just out of curiosity.
SHED GEEK:I just want to tell everybody who's ever recommended our services on any of those, if you've done it out of pure like satisfaction for what we've done, thank you, and the check is in the mail.
SAMBASSADOR:I knew he was going somewhere with this because there was no way he was getting out of that one.
SHED GEEK:Wait a minute. Where's my check? It's in the mail. It's in the mail.
SAMBASSADOR:That's back to that Kentucky mail that never seems to reach South Carolina Exactly. Oh, that's great.
SHED GEEK:This conversation is great because it's like I don't feel like I'm. You know, I realize a lot of people are going to listen to this, but sometimes I feel like I'm just talking with just the four of us. The mic just caught it, but some of those things need to be said, it's okay.
JONATHAN MILLER:But I haven't been talking too much. We haven't heard Tyler too much yet.
SHED GEEK:We haven't he kind of snuck.
SAMBASSADOR:Well, no, he didn't completely sneak out what?
SHED GEEK:questions do you guys have?
SAMBASSADOR:I need to be quiet. I was supposed to be gone, yeah, no, we're all good. I don't have the nerve, you do, to get out there that people know about. What do you want to ask? Or, you know, put your plug in. This is your free plug. You pay for the regular plug, so you're doing good at that, I love it, you got that one on me.
TYLER SHULTZ:Yeah, I got that one on you.
SHED GEEK:Pressure's on you, I'm sorry. We're all looking at you like come on, you got to do it.
TYLER SHULTZ:No, I would be happy to help anybody that's looking to get equipment used or new. We'll do our best to help the industry move forward.
SAMBASSADOR:And, yeah, we look forward to working with you and normally I would ask for your information, but your commercial will be on this episode somewhere.
JONATHAN MILLER:So, just go back and listen to the. Cardinal Leasing and you'll have all the info, you'll hear Sam talk and you can click.
SHED GEEK:You can even click on the newsletter when it goes out.
JONATHAN MILLER:It goes straight to their website.
SHED GEEK:So if you need to find out where to find information, sign up for the newsletter. You'll see it.
TYLER SHULTZ:And we have tried to make our just now. This last week we finally got our application process for the traditional loan.
SAMBASSADOR:You can do it on your phone now instead of having to print it out. Nice, so you can like, send out a link or whatever and they can just do it right on there. How did they find it?
TYLER SHULTZ:It's on the website. It's on the website. It's on the website, or I can send you a link on an email or you can send a link on the email.
JONATHAN MILLER:That's pretty cool on the traditional site and it's just about a one. If we send the paper copy out, it's literally one page.
TYLER SHULTZ:It's not like a typical bank loan.
JONATHAN MILLER:Because again and just shed hauling stuff mules for us, and so basically it's like this is all you need, it's one page.
TYLER SHULTZ:Yeah, that's cool.
JONATHAN MILLER:They don't need your whole life history and three of your children and whatever else they might need to go with it. It's really simple.
SHED GEEK:Quick response time and boom, you know, and you can be in a trailer that day, almost Almost, yeah.
SAMBASSADOR:I don't know why, like I honestly thought earlier this year we would see a decline. So, there is a lot of equipment out there that's been available for quite a while, but it's not choice equipment. Choice equipment still disappears in a hurry and, as you guys well know, know, a lot of it's not even making the equipment page right now. Yeah, it's selling before it ever gets there. Um, I've got two guys right now that I'm hawk like they. They know I was gonna be here this weekend. They're like keep your ears open if you know of anything that's possibly for sale up there. You know, let us know. We're looking for stuff and it's. It's crazy, yeah, how it just keeps right on text while we was.
SHED GEEK:While we was here you know this guy he's selling a mule. Just want to make sure he's straight up yeah yeah, I don't know him, but I'll ask around you know what I mean like that's yeah, yeah.
SAMBASSADOR:Well, we've had some guys get burnt pretty bad on that side too, and you know what? I'll always come back to this. If you get burnt on something and I find out that you didn't ask me about it, sorry, can't help you. You could have asked some questions. I don't know everybody, don't get me wrong. I'll tell you if I don't, but ask. Yeah, I'd be even more insane Go ahead.
TYLER SHULTZ:Tyler. No, go ahead, Tyler, back to the know your numbers, though. When you're looking at used equipment, please check new equipment prices before buying the used equipment, because there have been some mules being advertised used for more expensive than new mules we're going for right now Are mules called up.
SAMBASSADOR:right now Can you pretty much get a mule pretty quick. Pretty much, because the reason for that was I'll pay $5,000 more to get a mule today versus getting one in 90 days because I can make the $5,000 in 90 days.
TYLER SHULTZ:Last I knew they had everything in stock except maybe the 7040s, but the 7040s was like a couple weeks out.
JONATHAN MILLER:Yeah, and that was coming directly from Cardinal. But some of the others, like I don't know what WKM or Pine Hill, what those guys have got, I don't know if they've got any inventory? Right now. But yeah, they're pretty available, so we're catching up a little bit Actually catching up.
SAMBASSADOR:That's good, that's really good.
JONATHAN MILLER:Yeah, and because yeah, I think actually today, I think time in four or five years, that there were actually machines available that you could get.
SAMBASSADOR:So, if you guys don't know Jonathan personally, you need to get to know him oh, I thought he's gonna say thank you.
TYLER SHULTZ:No, he's, you're doing good I'm still looking for these checks.
SAMBASSADOR:I feel like you're a little bit like me. You show up at all the events. You're open, you love talking to your people. I feel like your heart's in the industry. Your family's always on board with you. I love your family to death. I can't say enough good about your family. You put me in the hospital almost, but your wife bailed me from that so it ended up she's over there.
JONATHAN MILLER:What did he just say? So the only time I ever got COVID.
SAMBASSADOR:I got it from this guy.
SHED GEEK:You were in.
SAMBASSADOR:Marion.
JONATHAN MILLER:Yeah, I was in Marion. Charlene has to run down to Kentucky to pick him up.
SAMBASSADOR:And I'm like uh off in La La.
JONATHAN MILLER:Land. We're going to have to haul this kid off to the hospital. He's not going anywhere himself. So she goes and picks him up and drags him back.
SAMBASSADOR:I actually feel like, other than the part of being isolated, which is nuts, other than that, I feel like I handled it fairly well, and that's mostly thanks to your lovely wife.
SHED GEEK:I'll throw a plug in here too, as if we haven't done enough already. But you know, one thank you for sponsoring. And two, like we're capitalistic here at the podcast, Like guess who we're going to promote? We're going to promote those who sponsor. So, I'm encouraging other people to sponsor. But we want to be fair and we will be fair, but right now I mean we're pushing everybody your way. So, I mean, like that's a competitive advantage that you get whenever you do spend money, whether Sam brought you or not.
SAMBASSADOR:You know what I mean. Oh boy, here we go again. All right, thank you for listening to another episode of the Shed Geek Podcast Before Shannon actually burns his house down any further than he ever has.
SHED GEEK:Yeah, I don't know.
SAMBASSADOR:No, it's all good. It's always a pleasure to hang out. Maybe we'll get a hunting trip in together somewhere before we both keel over dead. Yeah, we need to do that. I heard that that seems to be a popular thing around you lately is to just keel over.
JONATHAN MILLER:I'm out with Chase and they need to hold me off.
SAMBASSADOR:I didn't even get that in this episode. But if you decide to go hunting with a Kaufman, all I'm going to say is you better have a really good pack mule to carry you around or you better be in shape. Yeah, because those Kaufman boys they don't mess around, that's right, they'll wear you out in a hurry.
JONATHAN MILLER:They will wear you out, so yes.
SAMBASSADOR:Thank you all for being on today. Thank you guys out there in podcast land for listening today. Thank you, Shannon, for being willing to join in today from the Midwest Barbecue in Indiana Always fun, Always fun. Thank you guys.