Shed Geek Podcast

The Oakley Family's Journey in the Building Industry

Shed Geek Podcast Season 4 Episode 88

Brad Brown takes us on an inspiring journey from the roots of a fence business started by Shelby Oakley to support his education, to the thriving Oakley Portable Buildings of today. This episode brings to life the transformation of a family enterprise that expanded from Dairy Queen ownership into the shed industry, driven by entrepreneurial spirit and a keen eye for community needs. Brad’s personal story of moving from the printing industry into the family business highlights the adaptability and resilience that have kept Oakley Portable Buildings a staple in Stillwater, Oklahoma for over 50 years.

Discover the dynamic world of shed building as Brad and I explore the industry's growth, its challenges, and the entrepreneurial drive that shapes it. We discuss the evolution from manual shed moving to a sophisticated industry complete with trade shows and diverse product lines, such as carports and customized chicken coops. By examining the influence of customer demands and the importance of diversification, we offer a glimpse into the broader shed-building landscape, emphasizing quality craftsmanship and the benefits of maintaining strong community ties.

Looking ahead, we reflect on the future trajectory of the shed industry, the delicate balance between growth and contentment, and the enduring legacy of family values. Through engaging stories and insightful advice, we celebrate the passion that fuels this business, highlighting the potential for innovation and surprises in the coming decade. Join us in a heartfelt journey that embraces the essence of entrepreneurship, unity, and a greater purpose within the shed-building community.

For more information or to know more about the Shed Geek Podcast visit us at our website.

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SHED GEEK:

Okay, welcome back to another episode of the Shed Geek podcast here in Stillwater, Oklahoma. Excited to do this interview today. We've been talking about it for a little bit and getting to do this on our trip back from Colorado, so on the way home instead of on the way out. Brad, um, you just want to maybe introduce yourself, the name of your company and a little bit about like, like, what you guys do here

Brad Brown:

Sure, uh, my name is Brad Brown and uh and I work here.

Brad Brown:

My wife helps me, she's not here today, but Cindy Brown and uh and I work here, my wife helps me, and uh, and so our company is Oakley portable buildings and uh, so we, we do the sheds, do the wood in the metal siding sheds. Um, we also do decks. There's a a lot of demand around here for mobile home decks and steps and things like that. We do patio covers and carports.

Brad Brown:

Now we build them with a traditional flat roof, you know, attached to the house type. And then we also are a dealer for Carolina and carports and we there's a pretty good demand for that around here and so that's for the most part what we do. It's probably 70, 60 to 70 percent sheds, and then we do because we do quite a few decks and carports as well. Okay.

SHED GEEK:

Yeah, okay, so sheds, you said both wood and metal and the metal siding. And then decks. I saw the decks on the way in. So, tell me, Oakley's been here in Stillwater for quite some time, right?

Brad Brown:

Yes, over 50 years.

SHED GEEK:

Wow, yeah, okay, so tell me how the business kind of got started. How did like? Did you just grow up doing sheds? Are you second generation? What's kind of the story? How did that come together?

Brad Brown:

Well, as you can tell, my last name is Brown but it's called Oakley, and Oakley came from Oakley Fence, which my dad owned Oakley Fence Company, and a fellow named Shelby. Oakley came to Stillwater to go to Oklahoma State University and his family he was in the fence business in Tulsa and so to work his way through school. As a college student he started a little fence company and called it Oakley Fence and my dad had got acquainted with him and helped him with some work and was interested in what he was doing and liked it.

Brad Brown:

My dad was owned, he had owned a dairy queen and was running that, so he was already an entrepreneur and working and self-employed, but this was more appealing to him and so when Shelby uh graduated and left, my dad bought the business from him and did both for a while and then eventually sold the Dairy Queen which I'm so glad and went in and stayed with the fencing and we grew up building fences and working doing that. I remember doing that every summer and doing that on the weekends. But in 1990, my brother took over the fencing part and my dad transitioned into sheds and he would uh I think he got the, the idea and things from going to like the state fair of Tulsa and there would be a guy there, uh ted tucker, with uh shed company that back then was called better built and it was probably one of the original better yeah, there's so many better built, best filled and all that.

SHED GEEK:

Now, but uh, yeah you, they can get confusing in a CRM if you're not paying attention, sure? Um, when I see them in my email folders and I'm like, oh my goodness, between Yoder's and better built and heritages and yeah things like that there's.

Brad Brown:

There's quite a few of them but he would buy sheds from Ted Tucker and haul them to Stillwater. And this is before I mean they're talking.

SHED GEEK:

In the early, early 90s there wasn't really anybody hauling sheds on trailers or anything like you know with so this would have been the traditional uh handyman jacks and pipes that you were using to move everything, right?

Brad Brown:

beds and just, and he had a he eventually got a dump bed that he would do that, but a lot of times he would just take a flatbed over then unloaded at his lot with a forklift and uh, but he did that for quite a while. And but I was uh not and as involved in the 90s I was uh working, already married and had a separate job working in a in a printing plant, and in 2000 that closed and I'd worked there for about 12 years and I decided to go back to college and while I was working on my degree at college, I went to work for my dad building sheds and I actually went up to my dad had got my uncle involved in the business.

Brad Brown:

Okay, he had worked. My uncle lived in Sand Springs and Tulsa and he had a fence business there which my dad had got him involved in and he had moved to Wichita and closed that business and started doing sheds and up in Wichita you may have heard of them, all-size sheds.

SHED GEEK:

That does sound familiar. That rings a bell somewhere.

Brad Brown:

Yes, so Carl Brown had all-size sheds. He's retired now and his son-in-law runs the business.

SHED GEEK:

Okay, yeah, I've definitely heard that name,

Brad Brown:

Jordan

Brad Brown:

Crane. So anyway, they've been on the cover of the shed journal and things like oh yeah, probably where I saw them. Yeah, yeah, it's a much bigger uh outfit than we have here okay, in Wichita, yeah, so just a million more people up there too yeah, no, I like Wichita.

SHED GEEK:

We've been through there a little bit. Shout out to our buddy, Phil Carcelowey, who's there with newfound. He, uh and uh, all the business adventures they're into. We, we flew out there last year and got to, got to do uh. There's a place up there in Wichita called ginger and pickle. I don't know if you've ever been, but it's uh or no, chicken Chicken and Pickle.

SHED GEEK:

I don't know where I got ginger from, but um, oh, that's because that was a place in Paducah, anyway. Uh, chicken and pickle. Yeah, you could have chicken tenders and play pickleball that was just the weirdest thing, but it was actually fun. So, uh, and I and I still owe you, Phil, because you beat me three games in a row oh wow, yeah, we got to try it. Oh, it's fun it's fun.

SHED GEEK:

It's a blast. If you play, you'll have a lot of fun. But you're a Stillwater native. Yes, you've been born here and grown up here, and now you're an entrepreneur here, a business. And how does it compare in 2024 versus 1990, when you saw dad get into sheds? What are some of the major things that you've seen change?

Brad Brown:

Well, I mean, the industry has grown where it caters. There's so many different accessories and things that just cater to sheds which are turning into pretty much little homes or you know little doll houses type things. But uh, I there's still the basic just give me a shed to put my mower in and that's awesome. But I mean, I remember him trying to find hinges, trying to find, you know, hasps or whatever for his doors, and just there wasn't hardly anything.

Brad Brown:

You're just trying to figure out how to make this thing, you know, look nice but not have two or three different kinds of hinges on it, you know, or something like that make it all uniform and all consistent. Yeah, you know, and it just, it was, it was, uh. And then you know this, trying to find sighting, trying to find just there's just a lot of uh, uh. I think there's a lot of trial and error and it finally got to where you do things and you figure it out and you grow off that and you grow off that and just eventually get a really good system going.

SHED GEEK:

Yeah, you, in order to like the uniform, I think is a good word to use, especially if you're putting warranties on them, having to go back out and try to find things. But you know some, I've heard this said a couple of times by people, even recently. They said you know, it's interesting for me to hear you say, uh, industry, the word industry, shed industry because, like, we never knew we were in an industry. We just knew we were building sheds. That's, that's all we really thought of it as is. We build sheds. It's just kind of a thing we do. But now it's become organized with all of these things that have come out publications, trade shows, podcasts, you name it.

SHED GEEK:

You would have thought that you could do a podcast over the shed industry.

SHED GEEK:

Some people still doubt it, I think, and we're four years in. But it's a big industry and there's a lot of people who have stories like you all over the country, uh, and your dad, and they become second and third generation shed builders and they were just getting into it, uh, with an entrepreneurial spirit, like you said. Um, just and and as, as you've already alluded to, you see how other industries affect ours Fencing. Fencing was kind of a familiar leap. It was like Sheds was a distant cousin to that world and I know that they're two totally different things, but it just made sense because you know, somewhere along the line your dad went from fence you know building fence to building sheds, and now you've got decks out here because the mobile home business is big and uh, and you've got carports because sometimes whenever somebody doesn't need a shed, maybe they need a carport, so it's interesting to watch it grow and even where, where else it's going, there's guys doing pole barns yeah, I don't think it's smart to have all your eggs in one basket.

Brad Brown:

You know you got to diversify and we're surrounded our spot here in town. I think there's three trailer parks.

SHED GEEK:

Oh yeah.

Brad Brown:

Within a stone's throw. So as far as little sheds and decks and we've had, you know, we've built hundreds and hundreds of decks for just right here in these trailer parks.

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Brad Brown:

So that was kind of a no-brainer. I mean, people would come to us even before we were building them and ask us can you do this and so? And the same with the how we got into doing metal siding people. We were doing just wood siding and people would come and ask can you do this metal siding? And we're like we don't want to do that, you know, but they kept asking us and I won't try it and customers always drive the yeah, they do the, the.

SHED GEEK:

You know the car right, so like they're, they're always driving the. You know, unless you, unless you just really want to stay in one place and say I'll lose that market share right, sometimes you got to be open to customers and there's some things where we just kind of go I don't need any more anything else in my wheelhouse yes just I gotta you know what? What have people asked you for? Like here?

Brad Brown:

that's just uh off the top like wild well, we've built some chicken coops, but they're basically the custom you know, straight out of Pinterest yeah chicken coops that and I've done a couple for people just because they're buying other things, yeah, and so like okay, you're, you know. But if somebody came in and just flopped down a weird picture of a chicken coop, I'd like I want you to get what you want, but I don't think I'm going to be able to do it yeah, yeah, uh Pinterest is in the right direction.

SHED GEEK:

Yeah, yeah Pinterest gives people all the ideas and opens up all the customization options. It seems like so, so your. So your dad started this in 90. You ended up coming to work for him when.

Brad Brown:

In 2000.

SHED GEEK:

In 2000.

Brad Brown:

As far, as the sheds. Yeah, so I was working. I was going to college on Tuesdays and Thursdays and building sheds on Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Okay, and married, had four kids at home and just going, I mean never stopping and I bought a truck and a trailer. Well, first I just had to pick up all my tools and I was just working out of the back of it and going out and building on site. You know I'd come in, load up all this, go out here's the address and go in the backyard and build it and it was, you know.

Brad Brown:

But I didn't fully comprehend everything I was doing until I went up and worked for my uncle. Okay, he had a shed business up there and he had some guys, some builders, that let me watch them and work with them a little bit and pick up, take notes and, believe it or not, I took a video camera and videoed oh yeah, watching, and so I could watch it and go back and go oh yeah, I forgot about this and I learned a lot worked with one of his really good builders and I think his name was Luke, and so that kind of springboarded me into it then.

Brad Brown:

And then I felt, uh, confident enough in my previous fence building and carpentry skills to just jump right in. But I would hate to find that first shed wherever it's at.

SHED GEEK:

That's a testimony to growth in your own personal trade experience, isn't it? It'd almost be interesting to go back and watch your true reaction to seeing that first shift.

Brad Brown:

I'm afraid I don't know where it is, but I've hidden in a really small town on a back alley.

SHED GEEK:

I imagine there's others that have that story and would get the same laugh, but you're obviously years of maturing in the industry and learning your trade. It's changed things now to where you build a good quality product and you guys were really, would you say you were the first ones here in Stillwater to really be offering sheds uh, definitely, yes, yes, there was.

Brad Brown:

there was no one else in Stillwater and there's no one in Stillwater still that builds their own sheds. We have some dealers in town, but not anyone that actually manufactures their own.

SHED GEEK:

Yeah, and I know there's some good companies out here in Oklahoma and it seems like you've got some healthy competition. Let me ask you do you feel it's the million dollar question that everybody always likes to ask or be asked or have a thought on? Do you feel like the shed industry is saturated?

Brad Brown:

If it's not, it's real close. Okay, it just I know it's different in every part of the country. There's areas that are, just, you know, booming and growing, but and then areas that aren't. So I don't know, I don't have my finger on that pulse, but and you know, it's kind of like I, I, it's hard to be objective because it's kind of like when you buy a new car, everywhere you go you see your car, everybody's got the same car as you now and so I see sheds wherever I go.

Brad Brown:

So, you can kind of think it's, it is that way. But uh, there is still some growth, there's still some demand. We're definitely back, you know.

Brad Brown:

2019 or earlier type uh trends, so but uh, I've seen a lot of companies come and go over the years uh, the mainly just the dealer lots that try here and doesn't really work so they move on. So and I think the town that I'm in is only about 50,000. So once you have a good name, established people, we have some very loyal customers and people appreciate buying local and so that, uh, that plays a big part maybe in an outsider trying to come in and do that so it's not it's not necessarily saturated, but it's it probably wouldn't take much

SHED GEEK:

more yeah, yeah, yeah, it seems like I saw quite a few coming in from Oklahoma, so even some folks I think I've talked to a couple times, one or two times. But yeah, it really is interesting when you get a chance to travel and see the different. I mean, I couldn't tell you on this two-week trip how many shedlots I've seen and I'd love to stop at every one of them. I've stopped at a few and got a chance to chat, but, um, it just it, you would need to be on the road 365 days a year. There's so many shed lots and manufacturing locations and support, you know, for the industry through products and services and things like that. So it's always nice to get to know people's stories.

Brad Brown:

So, uh, we did that when we took a vacation back and went around new england last fall. Oh yeah, and just you know, basically almost turned that into a business trip, yeah, and we just stopped at all the different and some places that I actually follow on.

SHED GEEK:

Yeah, on, uh, instagram you know I want to see and had some good conversations.

Brad Brown:

Enjoyed looking at. Took a lot of pictures and uh. So yeah, I get it, it's, it's. It's pretty neat that area might be saturated, I don't know yeah they've got.

SHED GEEK:

They've got quite a quite a few uh shed manufacturers and dealers up in that area for sure. But I'll tell you they make some really nice quality products and some neat stuff.

Brad Brown:

But I'm still shocked that some of the places I stopped at, yeah, they're dealers, I mean, and I don't have a problem with that, I'm just saying they're not building, they're not building, yeah.

SHED GEEK:

Yeah, it's a little different. Um, you know we may not be accurate on this, but I like to say a lot of times it seems like they sort of operate under a wholesale model, where the builders don't want to be in the retail market, you know, they just want to build sheds, they, they just sell them to a you know an entrepreneur who wants to come in and purchase them, you know, to retail themselves. So, they'll, they'll, uh, they'll, put them out wholesale and um, there's a mixture. It seems like across the country it's kind of salt and peppered in from what, what I feel like I've experienced anyway, um is for the most part, in the Midwest, seems to be a lot of consignment dealers, like you know the model is. You know, open up a lot and then try to get 10, 12, 20, 70, 200, 400 dealers under them. However, that ends up growing or working or whatever, whereas in the Northeast it seems like, exactly like you said, they'll purchase and then they'll be a retail shop and maybe they'll have some other stuff.

SHED GEEK:

Maybe it's not just carports or do furniture, um, you know, gazebos, pergolas, some, some people have mulch, u-haul trucks, a little bit of everything. I mean you, you name it. I've seen quite a bit Like. The Amish markets are always interesting. You know they'll have like the I call them Amish markets I don't know what else to call them but like the little food stores and supply stores and then they'll also have sheds out there and flowers and everything else?

Brad Brown:

Yeah, we have one just down the street.

SHED GEEK:

Do you Okay, yeah.

Brad Brown:

There's not.

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They don't have sheds, but they have greenhouses and some chicken coops which I send a lot of people down there when they're looking for chicken coops, I'm like, you just got to go a little bit further. You almost made it.

Brad Brown:

And even greenhouses. We've done them, but just need to narrow it down a little bit and stay focused on what you do. Do it a few good things.

SHED GEEK:

Yeah,

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SHED GEEK:

So, you've actually been running the place since what? 2000?

Brad Brown:

No, I mean, I started running it in 2004, in 04, okay, when I got out of college I was, by the time I finished school, uh, my dad went from semi-retired to retired and uh, it wasn't really that it was this big conversation or anything that, hey, I'm going to do it this way. It just worked out that way and we stuck with the looking at what I'd got my degree in and how the economy was and what was my opportunities were pretty slim at the time and I thought things are going pretty good. Let's just see if we can, uh, build on what dad's already done.

Brad Brown:

And so he was gracious enough to let us take over and, um, he was ready to retire too, and uh, so we did, and then we, we stayed in the previous location where the fence oakley fence was, and did, did well, and as we got busier and busier and grew more, we realized we need our own spot. And just there happened to be a place across the road from where we were. That was available. And so, we bought a two-acre lot and built on that, which was challenging, trying to do in the city limits and get them to you know.

SHED GEEK:

Allow for manufacturing? Yes, yeah.

Brad Brown:

Manufacturing and all the rules and everything with that. I really wanted to just, you know, put up a barn and have a shed office and you know, keep the cost down and just build. But they weren't having none of it. I felt like I needed to be in the city limits for some reason back then, anyway, just because I felt like it would be a way of saying to Stillwater hey, I'm invested in you. I am, I'm invested in the city, they would reciprocate and they have, so it definitely paid off.

SHED GEEK:

No, it makes a lot of sense. I've never really thought of it like that. Most shed companies you do find are in rural areas. If they're a manufacturer, even a lot of the retail lots are always on the fringe of town, it's always just a little bit on the outside of town. But we've dealt with our own um, even as a retail lot. We've dealt with our, with our own share. Uh, I don't have a retail lot anymore but but I did um, we had three at one point maybe, uh, and they were oh, the. The municipalities are so different depending on where you are. We were in illinois, kentucky and tennessee and um, um, it's kind of interesting, the different rules uh, surrounded what you can do, what you can't do, and we, we seem to have the most trouble in our own hometown there of metropolis. Yeah, it was really difficult to get past some of the zoning and stuff that they wanted and yeah, but that's my own personal beef I never felt like our own city's business friendly.

Brad Brown:

The beef that I had here was just mainly how they dealt with drainage. You know they want a giant retention pond for everything and you know well, I don't want my sheds to get flooded.

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I'm having a pond.

Brad Brown:

You know, I want a big dry lot here that I can put stuff on.

SHED GEEK:

It makes good sense. But so in 2004,. Were you guys, were you trailering yet? Were you still using the old school methods?

Brad Brown:

We were still building on site.

SHED GEEK:

Okay.

Brad Brown:

But I had started seeing that happening and it just got the wheels turning and I didn't even know there was people building trailers for that and things like that and putting a lot of internet stuff, or they wouldn't even have been on the internet anyway if it was there and so I decided I want to figure out how to do my own trailer.

SHED GEEK:

And.

Brad Brown:

I found a trailer picked up somewhere. I used one and rigged up a winch on it, you know, and was having all kinds of trouble with it. And when I hauled it, I don't know I'm surprised I didn't kill myself or someone else trying to, you know, get a shed on a trailer or haul it, going through axles and stuff like that, and let's see. And then I actually had one built and which I still have, which was just basically a deck over tilt bed trailer, you know, and did some modifications.

Brad Brown:

Had to put a rolling tailgate on the back and just a roller. So, it didn't, it wasn't a like a beaver tail type thing or anything. It just rolled up this roller and then the winch pulled it onto the wooden deck. So, it worked pretty good. Didn't have any other bells and whistles to it. And then I don't remember how I first heard about the Shed Show, but they was having one in Lancaster and it must have been about 2010 or something like that.

SHED GEEK:

Okay.

Brad Brown:

Yeah, and so we decided to load up and go out there and see what we could learn.

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Brad Brown:

You saw the piano.

Brad Brown:

My wife is the piano player for our church. Okay, she plays the congregational and um which she's been. She's been a member there for 50 years oh wow, yeah yeah, and she her dad it's not the but when he became the pastor and they moved to Stillwater, she was four years old.

SHED GEEK:

Okay.

Brad Brown:

So, she's been here her whole life too, yeah, and so she grew up in that church and everything. But she's taught piano lessons. She doesn't. Now she stepped back from that. She did it for over 30 years teaching piano lessons. I really needed her help in the business because we were just so busy I couldn't do all the books and everything. So, I said it's just going to have to be an economic decision, because that was kind of a mystery for her teaching piano to kids and things.

Brad Brown:

But I needed her help, help, and so she's been a huge help and I mean takes care, takes a lot off my shoulders yeah, that with the books and really she's a way better sales lady way better sales.

SHED GEEK:

She sells she sells sheds and carports all the time I've people make arguments all the time that, uh, a lady is a better salesperson yeah, all these old men love to come in here and talk to her.

Brad Brown:

Anyway, yeah, and so well, and there's it's a mixture of like what.

SHED GEEK:

Like you know, are they maybe just more at ease because it's not another guy you know, maybe who understands the dynamics of the shed and the building components and things like that, so they're just easier to talk to, maybe their guards down, kind of thing yeah, well, there's a lot of people that don't that, don't know all the lingo, yeah, and so if they're talking, if it's a man and he's talking to another man, it probably intimidated or embarrassed that they don't know it.

Brad Brown:

Yeah, like you said, talking to a woman, a lady, it's.

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Yeah, they feel like they feel like yeah, they felt they?

SHED GEEK:

they felt like they're superior in their knowledge of it, maybe only to find that the ladies know way more than the guys that come in.

Brad Brown:

Had a few men come in that are that don't even want to talk to her because she's a woman right, she would not possibly know anything about shed building or what I need, or whatever and only to their surprise, huh, and no, I mean, she don't even get past, hardly hello with them because they're like now, yeah, where's brad? Yeah, yeah, I ain't talking to you and so anyway yeah, it's, it's.

SHED GEEK:

It's funny how the world works, isn't it? But uh hey I've found that that lady sells people and even lady manufacturers uh, they do great I have four daughters, so uh, no sons, so yeah, bless your heart, Brian. I know.

Brad Brown:

I wish my grandsons would hurry up and get old enough to build sheds. No, so they're all very accomplished in their own right. Now I tease them all the time about being females and you know all the jokes. But no, I don't have any prejudice in that way as far as I think women can do quite a bit.

SHED GEEK:

Now. Have any of them expressed interest in taking over on the shed side?

Brad Brown:

Not really, no, they're. I have two married and two that aren't. But no, they are not.

SHED GEEK:

They've got their own careers, their own goals.

Brad Brown:

Yes, one is our oldest. Her husband's a pastor in Collinsville, which is north of Tulsa, and so they're very active and busy up there in their ministry. And then our second oldest one she lives with us. She has some disabilities, but she is a painter and an author. Okay, published a book Nice. And then our third, number three daughter. She lives in Dallas, she works for MasterCard and she has a established career in that and it's a lot with to do with all the security and the fraud and things like that fraud prevention.

Brad Brown:

And then our youngest daughter. She also lives in Collinsville, and her, her husband. She's married.

SHED GEEK:

Her husband's a teacher there okay, so got their own, got their own lives, and yeah and uh, and then you've got some grandbabies yes, I have four, four grandchildren.

Brad Brown:

Our oldest has our oldest daughter had three sons and then our youngest daughter that's married has a little girl. Okay, which is okay, but I really wanted a grandson like real, real salt of the earth.

SHED GEEK:

Um uh, people business I mean americana kind of story here. You know what I mean. Married uh grew up in small hometown. Uh dad was an entrepreneur. You became an entrepreneur, raised a family and still have the business after all these years, even in spite of ebbs and flows, and you know ups and downs and everything else over 30 years yes, well, yeah, since 90.

Brad Brown:

So 34 years just in sheds, yeah, just in sheds. And then my dad bought Oakley fence in 1970. Okay so yeah, entrepreneur for 54 years.

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Yeah.

SHED GEEK:

And that's what's raised the family. So very, very cool American story.

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SHED GEEK:

I'm gonna switch gears on you here, brad. I'm just curious. All these years in the industry, where do you think it's going now? What do you think the next? Uh, five years, ten years? What's your magic ball, tell you as you look into the, the future and say, hey, what's the next year, five or ten, going to look like, or so things that we should be looking out for surprises. Uh, if you base the future off the past, what would you think's coming around the corner for us in the shed industry?

Brad Brown:

wow, that's a tough question hard to see the future yeah, let me get my crystal ball out. No, the I mean it's probably just going to keep incrementally, you know, evolving like it has.

Brad Brown:

But I, you know there's been a there's some big, big players and out there that I wonder if they're growing too fast, you know, and if they can. You know everything that they need to do. And it's usually with any industry. There's the big fish eat the little fish. But I think, because AI can't build a shed and there is just a big need and I think there's a big void. I've had trouble. I think a lot of people have trouble finding skilled laborers, workers that anybody that can kind of maybe do a little bit of everything build your own shed, maybe deliver it, maybe sell it.

Brad Brown:

I think there's always going to be a place for that a small guy.

Brad Brown:

Yeah, I agree with that, even if there gets to be big, big places with outlets or whatever you know, and I mean there may be someday, you know, a big, just like a Lowe's, but it's just only sheds, you know. And I mean there may be someday a, you know, a big, just like a Lowe's, but it's just only sheds, you know. Yeah, I mean there may be something like that out there someday where you can just go to a shed store and it looks like a big giant, that in the big yard in the big populated areas.

SHED GEEK:

It seems like you know there's more possibility. But I agree with you there's. I don't think it's ever really going to go away. You know the mom and pop shed builder. I think you could still put out a good product and you could still reach an audience. I think it really just depends on your ambition. Because you know we see shed companies that have been in business for 40, 50 years, that one location and perfectly happy good name, not interested in growing it out past that. And then you see others with an appetite for more, where they're you know, grow almost, franchise it into multiple different. You know manufacturers and shed lots. So, I think it really just depends on your appetite. But I think that you can still put together a shed in a building and you know a pole barn or something, build three or four of them, stick them out front and still do fine.

Brad Brown:

Right, I agree, and it just depends on how you want to scale out your business and for me, maybe it's just my contentment or my season of life that I'm in, or whatever. You know, it doesn't, I'm not, it doesn't appeal to me, to, you know, expand a lot and because when the bottom line, I probably still wouldn't have that much more.

SHED GEEK:

Yeah, so, with except gray hair and stress I don't think we talk about that word enough. Contentment, like even in, even in. You know we might hear it in church, but you know, in society, society, it doesn't seem like contentment's like a uh, a word that people appreciate as much anymore, as much as more. Right, you know more, more, more always gain more. I think about like um, um, who was it? I can't think of his name, Rockefeller uh is the story where they said you've got all everything that you could want money, power, influence, all these things. What else do you want? He said just a little more. Yeah, you know, just uh. No, no, no heart of contentment. But I mean, you're a family guy, been here for all your life, became a second-generation entrepreneur in the town you live in, watched your four kids grow up, get married and have grandbabies. There's a lot to be content about there. Yeah, we're blessed.

Brad Brown:

Yes, no doubt and no complaints. And we're thankful and we're blessed for that, and if that continues on, we'll be even more grateful. So I don't have to be on the cover of whatever or the top this and that it does. I mean, yeah, I don't have any problem with people that want to do that, and yeah, and I had, you know.

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I mean, obviously I had a lot more.

Brad Brown:

Maybe I don't have drive as a word or just ambition. I still have it but, but I focused it in other areas probably. But uh, when we bought this place, this land, and we built this building and we did all that. I mean, that took a lot of driving ambition and you know wanting to get so. There's goals, there are things, but once you reach your, goals I mean we kind of focused our goals on a few other things and yeah and uh so what, what, what?

SHED GEEK:

and who is Brad outside of the shed world, outside of being a family guy? What do you have any unique adventures that are a part of your life? You're a rock climber, a pilot. I find some, some folks that do some of the wildest stuff, sometimes in the shed industry, outside of their normal daily job, sometimes in the shit industry outside of their normal daily job?

Brad Brown:

Yeah, I don't have a crazy sport hobby or anything like that.

SHED GEEK:

I don't either. Yeah, right I don't either.

Brad Brown:

I mean, I used to play a little racquetball, but I try to keep in shape here and there, but I guess my crazy thing is just doing shed moves on the side, you know, because I get into some wild, you know really like the private moves.

SHED GEEK:

Yeah, okay, just people call one you know.

Brad Brown:

So, I move sheds a lot on the side after hours or whenever and work them in, but they're always an adventure. What's?

SHED GEEK:

uh, what's one of your best stories? What's one of your most memorable events from doing a private move?

Brad Brown:

we did a crazy one just recently. We got I got in a pinch where we were moving this really old shed, which was still a sound condition, but the yard I had to get up this hill and through which I didn't realize was used to be a garden, and it was real soft and my mule sunk. And this building is sitting on a steep hill and I'm sunk in the ground and trying to tug it and pull it and get it on up and it wasn't working. And then the drive belt that runs the mule runs everything hydraulic broke.

Brad Brown:

And it's Friday afternoon, on a hot Friday afternoon. It is hot here there's no doubt about that and, uh, I'm trying to get a hold of anybody to figure out what size belt I need. Where you know, and I talked to Cardinal. They're like there should be a spare inside the you know the, the frame hanging on a zip tie or something, and nope, not there. That's what year, is it?

Brad Brown:

oh yeah, we didn't start hanging them till just the next month or something, and so I started calling and I couldn't get one anywhere and said I think the guy down, there's got the same model.

Brad Brown:

I just rebuilt his mule. So, I gave him a call and, sure enough, and he was out doing a move and he was going to be coming through town about 5 or 6 that evening. So, I met up with him, he gave me his spare and I finally got that thing on the mule. I mean his customers, you know their yards, their fences, tore out the shed's hanging halfway out in the alley. And here I am, broke down, got it all back together, got the shed in place and it was about 9.30 when I got out of there and I started that morning.

Brad Brown:

That was a and I started that morning oh, that was a crazy long day, you know, but and I and I told myself I probably shouldn't have done. Even I I knew in my gut, you know, I probably shouldn't do this. Just weird things about it. That weren't some red flags and I thought that I the challenge you like the challenge.

SHED GEEK:

Yeah, you know you know this so do you?

SHED GEEK:

now? Are you sort of vertically integrated in that way that you, you guys, build here, you sell here, but you also deliver from out of here, all done in-house? Yes, that's pretty nice. I may not happen to rely on anybody, but what's also cool is your testimony about the shed hauler, and that's one thing I like about a lot of the shed haulers that they they can say that you know they work together. Even if they work, uh, you know that was that was detrimental to you and it wasn't like hey, I can really stick it to that guy by saying no, uh, deal with your problem instead.

Brad Brown:

He took the opposite approach, to say hey, very gracious to, to willingly let me have that. And I, you know, of course I had one ordered for him heading his way before I even saw him, yeah and uh, to pick his up. But uh, I just couldn't wait over the whole weekend and have everything hanging out there. You know, I mean it would have been into the world, but it sure was nice to get her done, yeah and uh. So, yeah, that was, and I'm, you know, there's that, that big shed haulers facebook page oh yeah and I'm I've been on that for several years and I don't really contribute.

Brad Brown:

I just kind of check it out every now and then, but that was the most recent. But yeah, there's. There's all kinds of fun adventures with uh delivering the sheds and uh, actually, if I could just move sheds on the side or like I do on the side, but just do that all the time, I would probably just sell everything and just do that is that right way funner?

SHED GEEK:

yeah? And less complicated well, careful, because there's people listening and you might get a phone call,

Brad Brown:

so I want to stay in Still water

SHED GEEK:

yeah, just saying you might get a phone call, you never know.

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SHED GEEK:

I love your story. I love the history of your business and the way that your dad started and you found your way into this. It's very like I said before, it's very American, is what comes to mind for me to raise a family in the shed industry and it shows that you can do that and be content and be happy and you guys have done well here. Any particular shout outs that you want to give to any body or any companies, uh, just throughout the years it's sort of been imperative in helping you grow or, um, equipment, anything that's worked out really good and you're glad that you've worked with them well, uh, I mean, like, like I said, our mule has been.

Brad Brown:

I don't even like to think about how we used to do it. We have a WKM trailer and that's been. I mean, I bought that trailer in 2015, and it's still because I only basically just use it for us and you know it's not on the road 24 seven. Uh, it's had a lot of life out of it and, uh, minimal and jinx myself, but minimal, uh, you know repairs and things, and it's been a great trailer and same with the mule now.

SHED GEEK:

Have you been to some expos since Lancaster have you been going to any of the shows?

Brad Brown:

we were planning on going, and then, uh, to the one that got canceled during oh yeah, during covid, yeah, and we just haven't been able to arrange it since then.

SHED GEEK:

But we want to yeah yeah, we'd love to see one of them. Uh, we'll be in Michigan, you know, uh, this year at the expo with them. We'll also be in Greenville in January and I found myself going to some of these like post frame shows and things like that too. We went down to Branson recently where I found a lot of guys that are building sheds are in the post frame world too, so try to connect the dots. Yeah, not everybody does, but a lot of guys that are building sheds are in the post frame world too, so try to connect the dots.

SHED GEEK:

Not everybody does, but a lot of times when you find that one industry overlaps into the other, it's kind of cool to be in that industry and having conversations with those folks too.

Brad Brown:

Well, I would recommend it to anybody if they haven't ever gone, because it's uh, I mean it's educational for sure and if, especially if, you're starting out and you're just running across this podcast or whatever and you're thinking I might want to get into building sheds, I would do that because you will. You know, instead of making all the mistakes that everybody else made you, you know, you'll be that much further ahead and learning. I'm glad. I'm glad we went and I felt like I got so much information at one time. I didn't. It didn't have to be an annual thing, yeah, yeah.

SHED GEEK:

But so what? What would you say from going and setting up your camera in Wichita, or going to a shed show in Lancaster or visiting other dealers along your way in vacation? What's one thing that you remember that you took away that surprised you the most I like to think of? There's this book called Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss, and he talks about the Black Swan and it's the name of his group. He's got a podcast and everything, but he was a FBI hostage negotiator and that's why I never split the difference, because he always says you can't split the difference, you got to win, and you know he was negotiating for life as opposed to negotiating for, like a salary.

SHED GEEK:

So, I kind of understand where his mentality was. But he, he has this group called the black Swan group and the reason he named it the black Swan group is because he says in a, in a, in a pond full of white Swans, what sticks out the most? The black swan. If there's a black swan there, it sticks out more than anything and that's the most obvious thing to everyone who walks up. It's not the hundred white swans, it's the one black swan that sticks out like a sore thumb and he named his group after that. So, I always like to ask people what was like your black swan moment? What was like the moment where you were like, wow, we've either been into this for two weeks or two months or 20 years and then all of a sudden we realized something that we were doing that everyone else saw, that we just didn't see. Like, is there one thing in particular that sticks out, whether it's a type of build using metal instead of wood, vice versa, I don't know what. Is there any moments that change sort of your direction?

Brad Brown:

before I started building sheds, when I was working in the printing plant. It was a big manufacturing mindset there. Okay, I mean, that's what a lot of it was. So, I already had that manufacturing and some of the titles I had and things that we were involved in training and involved in. So, I tried to come into it as I was going to turn this into a manufacturing plant gotcha you know, but um, I wound up just doing a lot of more custom stuff for people okay couldn't do everything same thing over and over and over in that reason in every go, because it was everything just so customized.

Brad Brown:

It seemed like and I I don't know it just to me it's just focusing on one customer at a time. And in doing that, um, we had less problems when everything was over with because they were satisfied and we did a good job. We focused on what we were doing and we got it right and we could go to bed at 9-layer head on the pillow and feel like we did it right and not worry. Is that going to come back on us later or something? And not worry, is that going to come back on us later or something? And I just think, like I saw that maybe going to Lancaster, that's really quality products up there. They do really good. You know, uh, working with people that were that were training me how to build, took that time and that care to do things. You know, make that straight cut or make that tight joint.

Brad Brown:

All those kind of things and not just slap things together, and I just think that shows down the road. So we get a lot of comments when people come by and they'll spin looking and seeing and then they go wow, your house buildings really look good and so I we just try to take a lot of pride in that and uh, we may take a little longer to build it or make you know our lead times, maybe our turnarounds, maybe a little bit longer, but we just say well we're trying to do it right yeah, yeah, you can't go wrong with, with that mentality, brad um hope that answered your question.

Brad Brown:

Oh, it does.

SHED GEEK:

Yeah, absolutely yeah yeah, no, I for me, the, the, the podcast is all about content. So, it's all about being able to talk to you about, um, things that you've done, things that you seen. Try to bring a picture to that as best as possible through conversation. I think that people enjoy shed history and stories and finding out how somebody got started, when, where and why, and there's so many just connections. We're a big industry but we're really small in terms of like, different people, knowing different people throughout the industry, and if we're not careful it can become an industry or a business of greediness, bitterness, all these things. But as opposed to trying to drive that direction, I always try to drive the direction of history, positivity and, as best I can, being imperfect myself, you know so. So, I love to get your stories and your thoughts on, like if, if you can ever tap into that and the and the and the podcast, and it's really not as bad as what people think or just sitting here having a conversation.

SHED GEEK:

So, I've had a lot of people tell me at the end like, wow, I really worked that up in my mind to be something different and uh only to find that that, or just having a conversation that hopefully tries to help benefit them, benefit other shed companies, shed manufacturers, shed haulers, through the through conversation. I think iron sharpens iron and I think that it's good for us to talk. We just decided to grab the idea of sticking a microphone in in front of people and recording it. Uh, there's tons of great conversations that happen all across America between friends, businesses, acquaintances, uh, at shed trade shows, at shed hauler events, all of this stuff, and that never get captured on a microphone. We're just trying to do our little part to bring people together. Um so, in that regard.

SHED GEEK:

do you have any questions for me? Podcast related, shed related, anything you can think of. It doesn't really matter. Nothing's off the table, and I'll do my best to ask in my transparent nature.

Brad Brown:

I guess. I mean, I was asking you earlier where you're from and everything, but you said you had some lots at one time. But how did you actually yourself get in? You probably said this a few times and I didn't catch it.

SHED GEEK:

I got in from a friend who was a this is the way I would explain it. Me and him were kind of rough around the edges when we were young and he became a pastor after going in the Navy and I was just sort of looking for a job at one point. I had worked in an industry for 10 years and needed a change and felt like God was calling me to be more. I don't even know how to explain it calling me to be more, um, I don't even know how to explain it just more, what, what, what? I've heard of your story on this podcast here today. Brad like family guy, that's just kind of you know. Um has a vision out in front of him for a business. I was just taking whatever job came and I had no like drive or I had no purpose and I sort of found that purpose through finding God Right. So, um, you know, and that kind of set me on this other direction of just you know, landed in the industry, uh, working in purchasing for a larger manufacturer, and um left that to do some faith-based drug and alcohol rehabilitation work for a bit and then got back into selling sheds through a mutual friend at church where me and him would end up owning three lots. We bought a truck and trailer. We thought that's the direction we were going and come to find out.

SHED GEEK:

You know, I built homes for a small time when I was younger, so I was pretty familiar with the construction world. You know, grew up doing some carpentry work, not super skilled, but I mean I, you know, did okay, my dad was a mechanic. I was not a mechanic, learned that real quick and yeah, just sort of, so it just fit whenever I got that job. And then when I fell into sales, I had been in the customer service industry for 10 years but I had not been in sales. You're always selling, but man, I just took this whole new, like aggressive approach at learning, learning my competitors, learning more about the product, the business, and ultimately that's what I like to say turned me into a shed geek. That's why I do the bow tie and the suspenders and the and the whole thing. The glasses come naturally because the, the visions faded over the years, but um, um, just genuinely.

SHED GEEK:

We'd be on vacation and I'd stop and talk to shed guys. Uh, I don't know why it fascinated me like it did. I think that. I think that anything that you put your heart into. Um, if you've got your heart and soul into it, it's just going to be interesting to you. You know, I I still get people who um, no offense, I you know, but I get people who don't know who the shed business journal is, or garage shit, carport builder or the podcast or whatever, or don't go to the, the shows or invest or, um, unsubscribe from the email. Uh, you know that that we send out or whatever, and I'm like, hey, it never takes offense to me.

SHED GEEK:

I just can't imagine being in an industry and not wanting to know more, learn more, do all about it. If I was in shoes, I'd be following every shoe things. If I sold Harley Davidson motorcycles, I'd wanting to know more, learn more, do all about it. If I was in shoes, I'd be following every shoe things. If I sold Harley Davidson motorcycles, I'd want to know everything about them. And I find that it seems like some people see it as a job and some people see it as a calling, and I think you can tell the difference and I think it probably shows in their business too. It probably shows up in their culture employees, everything. So that's a long answer to the question you asked me, but I guess I just think I wanted to be super involved with this industry. I fell in love with it. Yeah, it found me, because ministry and work don't really separate. I just kind of yeah, yeah.

Brad Brown:

Well, I mean growing up building, building fences, when we would go on vacation, I mean I remember my dad, hey, look at that fence, oh, look at that fence you know it was just everywhere we were and before long, you know we were pointing them out before seeing him, before he would hey, dad, dad, look at that one.

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Yeah.

Brad Brown:

And in the same way with the sheds, and I know my kids notice every shed when they're, you know, because that's what we did on vacation and they were like I'd see them roll their eyes sometimes because I would pull into some lot, you know, and go, oh wow, look at this, look what they did, that's what they did.

Brad Brown:

And uh-huh, and you just want to, uh, maybe glean from something new or something new idea, because there's I mean there's nothing new under the sun. So I mean I've had people accuse me of, uh, copying, or you copied off of this and I'm like so you invented the shed.

SHED GEEK:

Okay, you know yeah, nothing's really, like you said, new under the sun. You can go from one lot to the next to tell that most of what we we all do is within 90 the same it is there's.

Brad Brown:

There's some techniques or designs or patterns, or whatever you want to call it that people like that you might make unique to your structure, but nobody has a copyright or a patent on it. You know it's not. Yeah and so it's just. Your limit is your creativity and yeah ability and what really what the customer wants, because why would you build something that nobody would buy anyway? Right I mean, you know, you can try it and put it out there, but you can't force it down anybody's throat so that's, right um, it's usually what dictates is what the customer wants what the trend is going on in the industry.

SHED GEEK:

Well, man, it's been a pleasure just getting to meet you and talk about the shed business here with you, uh, and like-minded folks to, to folks who also listen, who are like-minded, who are in this industry, that even though you're kind of in your echo chamber building and selling and hauling every day, day in and day out, you might not get a chance to get out and see the rest of these people it's what we've tried to bring to the table is going around to these different places.

SHED GEEK:

I couldn't tell you how many manufacturers now or dealer lots we visited, but it's a lot, and it's always exciting to uh still hear their story, uh, how they got started, where they're going, what their view of the industry is. It's always interesting to me. Um, yeah, I just uh overall appreciate you reaching out and giving me a chance. We put it out on facebook and through the email that we were going to be out in this area and I'm glad it worked out uh, thanks for the opportunity.

Brad Brown:

I mean, if people, people ask me what I do sometimes and I said, well, I have a shed business, and they look at me funny, like you build sheds and you can do that for a living. Yeah, I was like well, it pays the bills. Yeah that's right, it's done a lot for us and obviously. God's blessed it and we're thankful for that.

Brad Brown:

But yeah, it's neat that there's that pun of cottage industry. There's that pun of cottage industry and it's uh, but it really it's. It's uh, it's a neat industry to be in and be a part of. Good folks, good Uh, I think for the most part very wholesome, very wholesome industry. It is thankful for that yeah.

SHED GEEK:

On that note, I always like to pray. Uh, I don't know if you like to pray, but I like to pray, yes. So, um's okay, I assume, just from hearing our conversation, that you do, and knowing that your father-in-law is a pastor and knowing that you guys have faith as a big part of your being too. So I'll just close this out by praying over the industry and I just want to say thank you and congratulations also for all the success you've had, and thank you for sitting down with me and giving us a chance to look around a little bit, so it means a lot.

Brad Brown:

Absolutely.

SHED GEEK:

Lord, thank you for this day, thank you for the opportunity to meet Brad and his family and the folks of his business. I ask that you just continue to bless the multi-generational entrepreneurial business that they've put into place after all these years. Just continue to bless it, keep him encouraged. I ask that you would continue to bless our industry as a whole. Keep us safe as we move to and from the shed haulers, also the manufacturing manufacturing, uh, day in and day out.

SHED GEEK:

It's a task and can be dangerous at times. So please keep us safe as move to and from events like the shed expo. Just, uh, keep us safe in our travels. Um, help keep our hearts soft, uh, our eyes open to see, our ears open to hear what it is that you would have us do, not only individually but also as an industry, if we could come together to do better things for your kingdom. That's what it's all about and we thank you Sincerely. Thank you in Jesus' name, amen.