Shed Geek Podcast
The Shed Geek Podcast offers an in depth analysis of the ever growing and robust Shed Industry. Listeners will experience a variety of guests who identify or specialize in particular niche areas of the Shed Industry. You will be engaged as you hear amateur and professional personalities discuss topics such as: Shed hauling, sales, marketing, Rent to Own, shed history, shed faith, and much more. Host Shannon Latham is a self proclaimed "Shed Geek" who attempts to take you through discussions that are as exciting as the industry itself. Listeners of this podcast include those who play a role directly or indirectly with the Shed Industry itself.
Shed Geek Podcast
Mastering Sales Success with Peter Miller's Insights
Ever wondered how a delivery driver becomes a top shed sales expert? This week, we welcome Peter Miller, co-founder of Making Sales Simple, to share his remarkable journey from managing seven shed lots across Florida and Georgia to co-founding a groundbreaking online sales training program. Peter introduces us to the Shed Sales Summit, an event rich with networking opportunities and keynote speakers aimed at revolutionizing the shed sales industry. We shine a light on the camaraderie and collaborative spirit of industry events like the Shed Builder Expo and the Shed Hauler Bash, celebrating the often-overlooked heroes—shed haulers.
Listeners will benefit from Peter's wealth of experience as we discuss effective sales strategies, the importance of custom branding, and the balance between sales and customer service. Through personal anecdotes, we underscore the critical role of perseverance, continuous learning, and the right mindset in achieving sales success. Peter and I dive into the nuances of customer interactions, offering practical advice on navigating objections and posturing to build trust and close deals more effectively.
Reflecting on the growth of our podcast and the importance of long-term relationships, we share heartfelt stories about the joy of turning podcasting into a family venture. You’ll hear about the impact of sales training on both consumers and sales teams, and the fulfillment that comes from stepping out of your comfort zone. We also take a moment to celebrate personal milestones, like a 25-year marriage, and end with a prayer for future events, making this episode a must-listen for anyone looking to elevate their sales techniques and deepen their business relationships.
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To suggest show topics or ask questions you want answered email us at info@shedgeek.com.
This episodes Sponsors:
Studio Sponsor: Union Grove Lumber
Shed Suite
Identigrow
Shed Sales Summit
Liftify
Shed Pro
Okay, welcome back to another episode of the Shed Geek podcast with a familiar friend joining us today in the studio Peter. Many folks already know you they've probably heard you maybe on here but introduce yourself maybe a little bit about, like what you do and what this new adventure is.
Peter Miller:Sure, my name is Peter Miller. I have a couple of different hats that I wear. First and foremost, I'm a dad, and a father I love that role that I get, but what's related today to this podcast is something we're going to talk about is a shed sales summit. So, what do I do? I have seven different shed lots across Florida and Georgia that run and operate juggling multiple employees being able to help them out, but also what I love doing is selling sheds, selling carports. So, I run those seven shed lots, and then last year, we started a venture called Making Sales Simple, which is an online sales training program.
Peter Miller:One of the things that we found out having seven shed lots is you can't be everywhere at one time and turnover is going to happen, and so when you have new employees come in, you need to train them the way that you'd like them to be trained and being able to sell, train them the way that you'd like them to be trained and being able to sell. And some of the times, you have somebody come in that has never been in the sales industry or has never been in the shed sales industry, and so we created Making Sales Simple, originally with our shed lots in mind. We have some business partners in the furniture side of things as well. We were able to take that and plug and play every single one of our employees into that shed sales training and that turned out really well. We opened that up to other people last year and that has gone very well. We're very excited where that's going to go in the future.
Peter Miller:But then last year we were talking myself and Peter Boyles, my business partner in the shed lot and we were wanting to be able to create something. As you know, there's the Shed Builder Expo, which Marty Boltres does a wonderful job, being able to get so many people together. You have Sam Byler, Sambassador the notorious, wonderful job, being able to get so many people together.
Peter Miller:that's right. I had to put that plug in. Uh, he owes me twenty dollars, but he does a great job with the shed haulers and the shed hauler bash. I got the opportunity to go there this past uh year I believe it was in march there in Salisbury, North Carolina, and so we were talking last year even about creating an event so that we could have people that are in the shed sales side of things be able to come together and not just, uh, make it halfhearted, but something where you're going to learn from it.
Peter Miller:You're going to come in, you're going to get education for one thing, but, as you know, iron sharp. With iron you can bounce ideas off of somebody and sometimes you won't even have thought of something that you do when you're in a group. So, there's going to be networking opportunities. We have an opportunity for some keynote speakers coming in and giving some different talks to the people that will be there, and we want everybody to be able to attend who's in the shed sales side of things, and even if you're not necessarily in that yet and you just want to kind of find out, hey, what is this about? Maybe this is something that you should come to be able to learn a little bit more about Shed Sales. So just a quick plug ShedSalesSummit. com is the website to be able to find out a little bit more about the event. Is the website to be able to find out a little bit more about the event. But that is what has been happening kind of in my life as far as work-related in the past year.
Shed Geek:That's awesome, man, I think it's great. Yeah, love, obviously, going to the Expo. It's like a big family reunion every time you're there. Um, I struggle to. It's terrible, I struggle to remember. There's so many people and I've got to sharpen my, my brain a little bit there on like there's so many contacts, people that you've just talked to and met and like established relationships, some closer than others, and uh, yeah, it's a whole week of fun. You know, I mean in many ways like it's work, but it's also a whole week of fun being able to come together, uh, with collaborative ideas. Um, you know, attend the, the NBSRA the day before. Always enjoy that, um, so it's yeah, it's just kind of fun and, and it was, it was a blast going down to the shed hauler bash there in North Carolina. I mean, you got to chat for a little bit while we were there and, uh, they always put on a good, good show.
Shed Geek:The competitions are always great and, yeah, the haulers are always excellent. You know they. They've had a rough year. Uh, you know they need some prayer. You know what I mean. Like they, they work hard and they've had some things come along. Those of you who watch the you know Facebook page and things like that, you're aware of those. But a lot of you know, a lot of times I just look at like the haulers and I brand them in my mind something that, whether they are or not, it's just, you know, hey, just some good dudes, just good, hardworking dudes that are like salt of the earth, family guys that in most cases that are just, you know, don't need all the attention. They just grind it out, do the work and they, you know, um, just work hard, man. Those guys are some of the hardest working guys I've ever seen. So, yeah, it's excellent. Well, I mean it, just you.
Shed Geek:It begs the question why is there not a shed cell summit? Why is there not something available, you know, and, and I think there's a few things that either are or have tried to get off the ground, but it's just excellent, more than anything, whether it's one or two or five of them, that it's being paid some attention. You know, because the shed seller oftentimes feels like they're on an Island all by their self. I'm not paraphrasing here things I've heard and I and I'm even testifying to things I felt.
Shed Geek:You know, when you're setting at the shed lot, a lot of times it can be very boring If you're not picking up a trade publication magazine or listening to a podcast, or not even if it's not even our podcast. You know, listening to other podcasts and sales podcasts, you know, to sharpen yourself or get better, uh, it can get very lonely if you don't have a team around you. So, I mean, like, all of these things are excellent questions. So, I guess my first is when does this happen? How is it going to be laid out? And then, what do people need to know to attend?
Peter Miller:Sure. So, it is going to happen on Wednesday, September 25th, from eight in the morning to 10:30. So, if you've been to the Shed Builder Expo before, they have sessions in the morning before the actual expo opens up. So, this is the time slot before the opening of the first morning. So, what do they need to know? If they're planning on going, I recommend going on shedsalesummit. com and going on there and getting your tickets. They are a limited amount of tickets just because we don't have a massive, a massive hall to be able to put the thousands of people that do show up. So, it is a limited amount of room, but what they would go on, get those tickets and then make sure that they get there early.
Peter Miller:The networking part of things is going to happen even before the eight o'clock kickoff. You know you're, you got, I'm sure, some coffee and some donuts there in the hallway, you start building those relationships there and then there's going to be some speakers to start off. We have some of our sponsors that are for this event. I'd say JMAG is going to be there, we also have Shed Suite and we have you guys, shed Geek, and then Building Hero is also going to be involved in the sponsorship. So, there's a multitude of different companies that are involved in this Shed Sales Summit by way of support, but those guys are industry leaders. Way of support, but those guys are industry leaders. I mean anybody who's in the Shed world if they don't know of these guys, or Shed Geek podcasts be like.
Shed Geek:Are they hiding under a rock or something?
Peter Miller:like that, hey, man appreciate the plug.
Shed Geek:I'll give you your 20 bucks. I'll send that. I got $40 already.
Peter Miller:Hey that's not necessarily sales, but friendships are worth a huge amount of money and um I, I'm kind of going a rabbit trail here no, you're good I would say, friendships worth. You know, if you ruin a friendship over money, then you you're the loser.
Shed Geek:Oh man. That should be on like a board somewhere in a picture frame hanging somewhere.
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Shed Geek:You know, I multiple reasons why I enjoy this conversation. One I always enjoy, me and you have talked before. It was down in Georgia. I got to stay on. Your lot went out ate some breakfast. I always enjoy that.
Shed Geek:Man, when you can break bread with people and just build that relationship, it really means a lot. And yeah, I mean we first man, when you can break bread with people and just build that relationship, it really means a lot. And yeah, I mean we first met, I don't know a couple years ago, whenever these ideas were just conversation pieces. And that's an example of how they turn into real life, because it starts with an idea and then you, you got to implement something. But I'll tell you why it's selfishly, super imperative for me to see these things work and happen is you know now that we've sort of engaged into that marketing world and created that agency. You know, man, we love it. We love what we're doing. I'm working with Dylan. Many of you guys know him. You talk to him. If you're working with us in some capacity. You know we launched this thing, peter, not knowing what to expect. I think we're over 40 clients now nearing 50. And we're excited about that. But let me tell you, besides plugging, you know, the success that we've had.
Shed Geek:Let me tell you why it's super important is because, if you're bringing leads in, there's one thing that we always ask the, the, the. The client is like what does your sales process look like? And that's why this is super important because, um, you know, there's a lot of things you can do. You've heard the old phrase you can lead a horse to water, you can't make them drink. You know I, you know like, even if you bring them the leads, you can't make them sell. You can't make them do the phone calls, the text, the emails.
Shed Geek:I mean you can build out automations and all that stuff, but when it comes down to just organic sales, just being a salesperson that maybe follows a crm that keeps up with their leads, but even if you're not doing a crm, just like, what is your? Is this part-time for you? Is it on the side? You know, are you dedicated to the craft? Are you trying to better yourself and your company and those affiliates around you, like. That's why these things are super important, and it's not by any fault of any you know for of anyone. It's not by any fault of anyone. It's not like anyone's done anything wrong. We just haven't really seen that sales side develop. So this is awesome, dude. It's great to see that people have a committed process to come in and learn more about what the sales process.
Peter Miller:You might come in and have never sold anything in your life, right, and that's actually sometimes the best, the best route. I'll put it this way I had a guy start at one of our locations, had never done sales before he started as a delivery driver and, um, one of the other days was the salesperson's day off, and so, guess what, he got plugged into that sales role. He got multiple sales and then he got that first rejection that a customer didn't buy and he called me up on the phone. He's like hey, Peter, I just want to let you know that felt really bad.
Peter Miller:He's like they didn't buy. He's like that's the first person that didn't buy. I said, well, that didn't buy. He's like that's the first person that didn't buy. I said, well, that doesn't mean you stop. No doesn't mean stop. It just means you got to work harder at it and keep on following back up with that customer. Don't let them just throw you to the side. They stopped at your shed lot for a reason. They're not just coming to kick tires and then walk on down the road and if you never call that customer back, you never follow back up with an email or a text. They aren't going to buy from you. It may take a little while, but just keep on with it.
Peter Miller:I equate sales as most people. It's a roller coaster. They have really high highs, and they have really low lows. Oh, man for sure, just bring it a little bit more even and keep it on an upward trajectory. If you're watching the Shed Sales Professionals page on Facebook, you'll have people say, hey, are you in a slump? And I said you've got to go back to those basics. You've got to start back at what you know works and keep on working those same exact things Because falling into that rut of. I call it complacency. You know they'll come in if they want to buy. That's the wrong attitude, mindset, all these things that we know as keywords in the sales industry. You know that, hey, you got to make sure you're going into this. When you wake up in the morning, that you're going to sell more sheds, those are all things that truly work, and this is something that's new. As somebody new into the industry or shed sales or sales in general, they may not know that.
Peter Miller:So that goes back to our sales training. We try to bring that from the beginning levels teaching that. But then you go to a shed sales summit here at the Shed Builder Expo and you find out that that's not the only thing. There may be other more in-depth things that you can do other than just the basics. Basics are great Don't get away from those.
Peter Miller:But hey, maybe that objection that somebody gave to you, you got stumped on how to overcome that. Well, people that have been doing it for years and years, they can come alongside you and say, hey, this is how I've done it. And then you go back and you're going to try it, and I'll continue that story that I was telling you about this guy. He didn't get that sale, but then about two days later somebody else came in and he called me again. He's like I'm back on the positive train. He got that sale, and his confidence level shot back up and he's able to keep on going down that road of selling, which is really exciting to watch. We love being able to invest into our employees and invest into the shed sales world. To invest into our employees and invest into the shed sales world just in the shed industry and when you see somebody winning, it's a good thing.
Peter Miller:I love the saying that you have a rising tide. Raises all boats, because if you're in it to see somebody fail, you got the wrong mindset. You got the wrong, you got the wrong mindset and, um, I hope you change that because we want, we want people to do better and, uh, I think the shed sales summit is going to help people you know, you always hear conversations about like um, we are oversaturated.
Shed Geek:You know, I see that in like um, in like the Paducah area. You know, we've just about outgrown our house, we're, we're doing everything either on the road or out of our house and we've got four office desk and I'm like you know, we just may need to, we just we just may need to, uh, get us an office space or something like that, you know, and have home, home and work, work as best we can, and um. So, you start looking at getting a building, you know, and then I'm like man, if I get a building, why don't I just get a lot? You know, throw some sheds out there again, like before, it's been so, so long, hey, but you know it's just in you right, you know? And you start thinking, you know, like hey, and then I'm like, oh gosh, I don't know. You know, little ole Metropolis had three dealers at one point. There's none now. There's none now. And I'm like you know, so maybe that's within Paducah little town of 26,000 has got like 13 of them. And I'm like I don't know. It's just we're pulling on the same people. But if you did, let's toy with this. I probably won't, but if you did, isn't it really the things that you learn that set you apart as to why a person goes from one place to the next to purchase a reoccurring purchase that's over and over and gaining residual business, like, I don't know, McDonald's, Hardee's, Olive Garden, some, a place to eat, I don't know, that's just what comes to mind. A movie theater. Typically speaking, um, you know, it gains residual business over and over and over. You might have a customer who comes back two or three, four times, but typically speaking, you know a shed's meant to last for a long time. That's why we brag about selling a quality shed. Uh, and if it's going to last for a long time, you're not going to see that residual business. You've kind of got a win in the moment.
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Shed Geek:Doesn't it seem like the natural course would be that those who are trained up better would find more success?
Peter Miller:Absolutely, absolutely. Because they know how to close when it becomes crucial. They don't let that potential client customer you know, I've had that question asked me what's the difference between the client and customer, and I'm sure you have a definition of that yourself but you don't let that person that's in your lot walk out the door without giving it every single effort that you possibly can to close it at that moment. I tell our employees all the time if a customer or client, whichever you want to call them at this point, walks out the door, your percentage of closing that customer went dramatically down. Your ability to close it was at that point and you pull out all the stops. You know, hey, what is it going to take to be able to get you this shed today? And then let them tell you and that's one of the things that you'd be surprised. I was dealing with a client and they walked into the office. We were sitting there and talking and he said you know who are you?
Peter Miller:I said well, I'm actually the owner of the company he's like oh that's who I wanted to talk to and we were talking about some pricing and such and I knew what my margins were and I know most salespeople can't necessarily do this. But we got a deal done based on him telling me hey, if I buy now, I won't go down. Your pay structure is set up whether you're an hourly or whether you're based on commission, but sometimes it pays to maybe cut a little bit into your commission. If you're allowed to do this, this is based on your employer, but sometimes it pays to lose a little bit in the beginning so that you can now build a fan base. We'll call it because every person that you sell to knows a lot of other people, and if you can win that as a relationship over just looking at it as a sale and a number and nothing else, you're going to be able to increase your ability to sell to other people now.
Peter Miller:So, I like saying that sales are not about numbers, sales are about relationships, and if you build your relationships right, then you're going to end up with more sales. Now I know we're making money at this, but build those relationships. I talk to other people that walk into the office that I've been at for years in the past and we strike up a friendship. It'd be like, hey, how's your sister doing? And we kind of like a family reunion just with our clients that we've talked to in the past. So I stress that to anybody new in the sales industry build your relationships, It'll help you in the long run.
Shed Geek:I certainly remember. You know working in customer service. You know for 10 years. But sales and customer service can have some very different nuances to them. You're always in customer service, you're always trying to service the customer, I guess, in whatever respect you know, get them the right shed, make sure the delivery works after sale. You know what I mean, like make sure that everything went well If they're paying on. You know finance, then figure out their payment. You know structure, make sure that that's going well.
Shed Geek:They feel connected with them if they're on you know, rent, make sure that they understand the fees and how it operates and what to expect long-term and um. But I can certainly remember being like you talked about, like that high emotion, low emotion, and like I never will forget the customer that came and stood at the door when we had the three shed lots here and a customer stood at the door and and basically had came in the day before he comes back and he's got one foot in the door and one foot out and he's kind of standing there and it's real simple. He's like, hey, this is their price down here. And they're kind of standing there and it's real simple. He's like, hey, uh, this is their price down here and they're beating your price right now. So, unless you can beat that, um, we're going to go down here and go with them. And I just remember that moment of maturity for me at that point that I was like, sir, if we can take the time to slow down and compare apples to apples, then I feel confident that I can beat their price. But you got one foot in the door and you got one foot out. You know what I mean. So, like I and I could tell he just wanted the answer and you have a short amount of time to build those relationships, sometimes Cause they are looking at it as a, as a temporary and a quick um relationship. This is like a 20 minute conversation. I don't want to be your buddy. I want to get the best price, I want to get the best building and I lost that sale and it was a big big time maturing uh moment for me to realize that I just wasn't going to sell myself short, right, you know what I'm saying.
Shed Geek:In order to get this customer, it's like no, we have to do this the right way Cause, like you, you may be happy with that shed, you may be disappointed, I don't know. No one's ever going to come back and point out the differences of them later. You know that other company made a good shed, so they could probably be satisfied with it. But if that guy was $300 cheaper than me, but I could have pointed out that we were 16 on center instead of 24, double top plates instead of single, you know we had a.
Shed Geek:You know a 40 year metal instead of a 20, you know, or whatever it is and say, hey, these are the reasons why we've justified this $300. However, if you want me to build it identical to the way that they have it. We can actually save you $600 versus their price, so I can build you the same thing cheaper. But the customer won't always take the time to listen. What do you, what do you advise in that situation? What do you? What do you tell your people? Or maybe you're giving too much away here If I ask you that. Maybe that's why they need to come to the shed cell summit.
Peter Miller:Well, they I suggest anybody who's listening to this, if they are any bit in sales, I suggest you come to the summit because that is, you're going to gain that information. But back to what you were asking. You know I will say this in reality because I want to be a realist, not, you know, making. You're not going to win every single sale, you are not going to. But at the same time you like, like you had said, you stand on your quality. So we talk about the product, we talk about the price and we talk about the person. So you know what the product is and you learn it inside and out so that you can tell your customer exactly why your product is the best, that it is your price depending on how you're set up, some people are hard knows. This is the price, it's not going to change, it's not going to waver at all and that's okay. I mean, that's how car lots do it for the most part, Unless you go in the back room and talk to a service manager.
Peter Miller:Yeah, give me a good deal, man.
Shed Geek:Come on. What's your problem?
Peter Miller:And then you have yourself. So, the things that you can control as a salesperson, you can control how you react to that person and, like you said, a lot of people will come in almost like a confrontational and they want you to like respond back in a, let's say, a negative way. So then then they'll go out and, you know, maybe tell all their friends like, yeah, I went down and got it for $300 less and that guy cussed me out, or you know something along those lines. But at the same time, if you reacted in this way hey, Mr. Customer, I see that you said you can get that shed for $300. And if you give me just a minute to explain why that's $300, now you're giving them a professional, uh, an opinion, basically telling him exactly why that's $300 less, keeping it even keeled, because you know escalation becomes an issue.
Peter Miller:And sometimes I'll just say, if you watch any type of sales training on the internet with some different names, I won't name drop but if you just type in sales training, a lot of them I would say are very arrogant is the word I would use and in my opinion that's a turnoff. So, I understand you need to be positive in your sales approach. But arrogance is not the way to go about it, in my opinion. Answering that question, where they can take that, and now it presents a question in their mind is it worth $300 less, or should I pay that extra $300 and get the better quality that's going to last another 20 years, versus just a 20-year shed, a 40 year shed now? So, you're, you're putting the questions back in their, their mind. They're trying to create doubt in your mind on your product, on your price. You have to put it back into them in a very nice, gentle way.
Shed Geek:I definitely remember having my. My heart broke from the B-back family or the B-back bus, or you know different things.
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Shed Geek:When you're, so you know, green on that stuff you're like hey that guy said he's coming back, and you're like man that went really good, Because I think we'd almost expect them to be like sorry, sir, your price is too high, we're not going to purchase from you. And then it's like oh man.
Shed Geek:I know the true reason. You know like, hey, this building's just not going to fit. Hey, we don't like the way it looks, we don't like the design. Or maybe they don't realize there's a design that they could like, that you could show them, or whatever. Um, but I just definitely remember, you know, that emotional response of like hey, this guy said he's coming back. I can even remember a guy saying hey, how late are you here? And I was like hey, we're staying till five. And he's like I'm gonna run to the bank right now and get the money if you can hang around. And I hung around till after five and this guy never showed up, you know it's just like I thought it would be a different ending.
Shed Geek:No, man, people, people are ruthless. You know what I mean. They're like, you know. And then you kind of want to ask that customer. You know like what happened that? You? That you left a lot. If you did have intentions to buy, you know, did you not go to the bank and not get approved? Did you not have the money, whatever? Whatever the situation was, you know, they're not always going to stop back by and tell you um, so that didn't work out.
Peter Miller:So, if you were telling me that and you were in the Making Sales Simple training I would have asked back to you, Shannon, what? What is the information that you collected from the customers that you could follow back?
Shed Geek:Oh, for sure, no, no, dude, I was super green. You know what I mean.
Shed Geek:Super green I was like, yeah, trust, the guy said he's gonna be back, don't need to take down his name, don't need to take down his number. I probably approach this like you're talking, Peter, probably from the position of like, I don't want to be high pressure, you know what I mean. But then you've got to figure out that difference in, like, what is high pressure and what is a service? Like asking them their name, getting their phone number, maybe an email, like you know what I'm saying, you need a zip code to find out if you can service their area, which typically you can if they're coming to your lot. But these are just things that are helping to qualify the customer, because if they're willing to engage in some of that information, they're going to be serious or seem more serious if they're reluctant to give you an email because they don't want you to spam them.
Shed Geek:You've got to address that in the moment. But, like, initially it was just kind of like whoever shows up today, I'm going to try to close them. And, um, you know, I asked a question in that shed sales professionals page the other day. I did a um, a poll and it was kind of like uh, what do you think is the average percent of close ratio of customers who walk onto a lot you know, I wasn't asking for their like close ratio.
Shed Geek:I was like, what do you think it is in the industry? And I think I put the numbers at like 1 to 14, 14 to 25 and then 26 and above. And I was really surprised to find that 26 and above um was the answer, because I thought man, that's uh, you know, like a 25. That's one out of four people who come on the lot. Because it makes me want to ask how many people do you feel come on the average shed lot? You know cause, like is that a true representation of you know? There's this, there's this thing in rent to own. I'm going to give, I'm going to get some secrets away here. You ready?
Speaker 5:There's this thing you know like now.
Shed Geek:I mean, I recognize that now we are, you know, working in the RTO world. But when I worked as a rep, there was always this internal joke that it was like whatever the company suggests they're doing in RTO, you can typically divide it in half. It seemed at a meeting, or they, whether they solicited you, or vice versa, it was like, well, you know, hey, we, we need to know how much you do in rent only year to kind of, you know, navigate what, what expectations are you doing? You know five million or 20 million, or what do you? You know what I mean one million, what are you doing?
Shed Geek:Usually as a posturing, it seemed like a lot of times it was easy to be like, well, we do, you know four, four million. It was like at the end of the year you're like, well, you did two million. So, it's like a lot of times you want to just say you know, maybe something better. I'm not accusing everyone of that, it just it's always kind of a little running joke and internally with RTO, but don't you think people do that whenever they come in, uh, to purchase as well, to lay like, put on the mask of like you know, I have more skin in the game of this and you've got to work to uncover the truths yes yes, but you got to do it.
Peter Miller:this is the political or the you've got to navigate without making that customer feel like he's a liar, and one of the things that we try to teach our employees is you don't.
Peter Miller:The employee will tell you, like in your case earlier, I'm going to go to the bank and get the money. Okay, so early in your career you didn't get the name, you didn't get the number, you didn't. You didn't get those ways because you believed him. Yes, you believed him. So, I understand that they want to posture themselves to say, oh well, cash is king, I can write a check for that day.
Shed Geek:Yeah.
Peter Miller:Okay, well, you said you can write a check for that day. Let's get that checkbook out right now. Now, you're falling in their bluff.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Peter Miller:Oh, for that day, let's get that checkbook out right now. Now you're pulling their bluff, you know. Oh, you know, I need to talk to the wife. She's the, she's the boss. Yeah, they throw out an excuse or different things like that. So, pulling back those layers of the onion or the customer that they put a facade on, they make it, make them sound better. I mean, I think, if we're all being honest, every single person to a degree does that. Not many people come out and be like, yeah, I'm, I'm this. They'll say, oh, I'm this much better. You know, and it's, uh, the humble side of things it's really hard to find somebody who's truly humble. A lot of times, humbleness is put out there, even as a facade. They want to act like they're humble, but they're just doing it to be able to say, oh, no, no, no, you're really not that type of person, you're really that much better, just to get that so back into the sales side of things.
Peter Miller:I would say that reading people quickly is a good attribute of a good salesperson.
Peter Miller:Reading through the baloney reading through all the things that they may say. I mean, if you start talking to somebody, you find out this isn't sales training 101. You find out who's the one who's going to make the decision early in that conversation. So that way you're not wasting your time with, let's say, the wife or the husband, which we know. I mean statistically, the wife makes the decision a lot of the time when it comes to the purchase. But there's the occasion where it is the guy and you need to figure that out pretty quickly early in the conversation.
Peter Miller:So you're not wasting, I don't want to say wasting time, but kind of that. I mean you can spend an hour and a half with a customer if they're a talker and you're a talker, but you got to remember you're there for a job, to be able to service that customer to the best of your ability. But then also what happens when you're sitting there talking with that customer for an hour and a half and two others walked in and you're the only salesperson? Now you had two other potential clients that left and they're going down to the street to your competitor and they're going to buy because you were talking with somebody and wasting your company's time in the sales process. So, learn when it's good to talk and learn when to shut out, because you can lose a lot of sales that way.
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Shed Geek:Have you guys addressed like what I'm going to call the cynicism that becomes part of the salesperson's process, unknowingly sometimes? I'll give you an example. I have been around salespeople who have made it a point to correct the customer time and time again. You almost become cynical in being told no, so much. No, we're just not interested. Oh, I'll be back. Whatever it is, you don't get the sale. Your close ratio is down around 19%, or maybe it's up around 45% or whatever it looks like, but you get a no. You still get some notes. Like you said, you can't win every customer every time and I've seen guys that like almost want to prove the customer wrong.
Shed Geek:You know, like I can build it cheaper. No, you can't, no, you can't. And like. Sometimes and I'm guilty of this, like I think a lot of people are you can get caught up in your feelings and you can sort of grow into becoming a cynic whenever it comes to like your approach with customers. Have you seen that and like? What's your advice for? Like that situation?
Peter Miller:So, like we talked about the roller coaster, emotions, your personal life or even your work life, what just happened with a customer before or what's going on. You have to work as a personal habit of being even keeled across the board If you let every emotion, whether it's good or bad, affect you to the point where it's going to affect your sales. If you want to call it pitch but it's a negative, an extremely hard customer, as we would call it, not in front of a customer, but the know-it-all customer. But you need to be able to hold that customer in shape. Stroking somebody's ego when they're a know-it-all customer is sometimes the easiest way to be able to get the sale. Uh, taking that customer and this goes back to reading the customer okay, so they walked in. You read them within 30 seconds to a minute. Okay, this person wants to be the know-it-all.
Peter Miller:They want to, they want to be right on everything maybe they have something to prove to their wife, maybe they have something to prove to their kids, or something along those lines. You sitting there and saying well, yeah, it actually is 16-inch in the center, not 24-inch in the center.
Peter Miller:Well, I know my construction materials. Okay, you don't have to point them out on every aspect of it. Your job is to make that sale aspect of it. Your job is to make that sale. Now, if they ask you, point blank hey, is this a 16 inch on center? My opinion don't ever lie to the customer. Lying just digs you into a deeper hole. You're never going to win on that point. But you can be very political with a potential customer and you can get that sale just by learning how that customer acts to your information that you give to them.
Shed Geek:I feel like we've went through all of the emotions of the sale and tried just about everything. You know, read a lot of books, listened to a lot of people. I remember there was a time maybe you'll, maybe you'll, like this, Peter, I don't know. Um, I remember there was a time where a customer would come in and like the first thing out and you know this was salesy stuff. You know I was like, hey, you must be here for good quality vehicle. Today I noticed you drove in and afford truck, you know, and for a good quality vehicle.
Shed Geek:Today I noticed you drove in in a Ford truck and they'd be like ah yeah, this old thing. And you get to talking and the next guy that come in it's like hey, I can tell you're here for a good quality building, driving that Chevy truck.
Peter Miller:You know, it almost feels like what am I doing?
Shed Geek:You know what I mean. But you're trying to bond with the customer and then, you know, some people would say I found a lot of success in just saying you know what I feel. And I have found some guys that challenge customers on that, when they're like, no, no, no, that's eight foot. And you're like, no, that's not eight foot, six foot. It's like, wait a minute, what am I doing? And you're like, no, that's, it's not eight foot, six foot. It's like, wait a minute, what am I doing? I'm getting an argument with my customer and then I found some of those guys have like this special tool where, like they, they, they somehow win that customer over because when they were being defiant, they proved it to them and they were like, hey, you really are a guy that knows your stuff. I'm gonna listen a little bit more.
Shed Geek:My famous story about this is, of course, going and buying a washer and dryer. Me and my wife went to Lowe's and, uh, bought, was going to buy a washer and dryer, ended up purchasing, but I went straight to the, the first one that I was like yeah, this is it. I guarantee you, based off everything she said, this is the one you want. And she said well, let's talk to somebody. And some guy walks by and I don't really work in washers and dryers, but I can tell you that's the same one that we've got at home and it's. It's got this, it's got that, it's got whatever.
Shed Geek:And I just remember one point my wife, looking at me and shaking her head, like yeah, you know, like after looking through 10 or 12 of them, you know, he takes us over and shows us the one that I went to originally and I was like you just needed someone to seem like a professional to tell you. Right, like you know, you felt a little bit better about it once you, once you did and you'd be surprised. It seems like, as you know, the fake it till you make it how it's worked at times and things like that. And I got tickled because, you know, I asked this guy. I was like hey, I I'm just serious to like seriously want to know how much do you know about washers and dryers? And he's like man, I really don't know a lot. I don't work in the department so it's like he's just he's just selling.
Shed Geek:But, you know, made my wife feel better that someone from the store said, hey, this is what you want, this is what I got. Uh, sometimes you can pick up on those pitches. I got a question I want to ask you, before we uh sort of wrap up or go into some different details how has offering sales training changed your approach at being a consumer?
Peter Miller:I was offering shed sales training changed my approach as being a consumer.
Shed Geek:Yeah, do you do you like now see like different things, or you know sales training in others whenever they're approaching you. If you go to a car lot and you're looking for a new car, or whatever it is you're doing renting a home, buying a house has. Has any of this changed, like your approach at being a consumer?
Peter Miller:so I think it may make my eyes be more I don't't want to say critical, but maybe more aware.
Peter Miller:You walk into that store and that person doesn't get up and do the basics We'll go back to that and you think, man, I sure used some sales training. I'm not trying to be too critical, but also, at the same time, you see that so as the consumer side, yes, I noticed it more because when you go into these sales training videos and you know it takes time I'll put you kind of behind the scenes to be able to create these online videos and put those out there, I would say it makes you somewhat vulnerable as a person, because now what you're doing and I guess this is in any business you're going to have somebody else who may be critical of the way that you approach it, so you open yourself to criticism at that same point. And so, what does that do for your? I don't know if you want to call it self-worth or anything like that, but when you get criticized for something, sometimes it. I don't know how you can't.
Peter Miller:Some people maybe have an iron countenance and they don't change no matter what, but what that does is you're putting yourself out there by trying to help people and if you have one person come along and say, hey, that video helped me do this, it helped me close this sale, that boosts your confidence. That boosts, hey, this is what I did it for in the first place. I did it so that people would learn. This is the information that I was given to me and I want to help somebody else.
Peter Miller:So, going back to your question as a consumer, how does that change?
Peter Miller:As my approach or my outlook at everybody and maybe not in sheds, but just anywhere they interact, I would say it shows me there is so much training that's needed, not just in the shed world, but in the sales of everything, because you have people that just don't care, and we had this conversation the other day on the phone. This was off podcast but if you have somebody in a sales position that has no drive or no motivation to sell, you as a, you, as an employer or a boss, have to be able to read that as well, and sometimes you have to make the hard decision to move on from that person because they're holding your company, they're holding you as, let's say, a manager, back from the potential that you possibly could. So when I talked about earlier reading a customer when they walk in the door how to be able to sell to them, now we're talking to managers or we're talking to employers or bosses and saying you also have the job of reading your sales staff and finding out if they're the right fit.
Peter Miller:And sometimes it's the matter of being able to invest in them, whether it's sales training or maybe taking some one on one, coaching or putting somebody who is award, putting somebody who has been experienced they know they're a veteran in sales and putting them side by side with them and saying, listen, you're going to be their shadow and you're going to learn every single thing that they have to teach you for the next month. That can change your sales career. I think about it. Early in my career I was sent over to Fort St Lucie area, Fort Pierce, with a guy named Hal Hatcher and he had a sales system of how he would sell to the customer. As soon as that customer would walk in the lot, he was out there to talk to them. He was answering their questions, being able to show them the different styles. The way he set up his shed lot it was like as clean lines as possible. He would move his sheds within inches of each other and if one was turned just a little bit, he'd get out there with a jack and PVC pipe and roll it himself. He won't wait on the delivery guys to do it, he would do it himself. And so this was some of the things that early on in my career I saw as a young salesperson and I put that and stowed that away in how I should be when I do my sales.
Peter Miller:So, presentation, how do you dress? How do you interact with the customer, do you truly care? And then, going inside with the customer, they'd sit down, he'd give them, explain the options, whether it was rent to own or whether it was finance or whether it was cash, explain it thoroughly. The customer knew now that this was an experience that they hadn't found anywhere else, because he started from point A all the way through Z and he explained it totally. Then some of the sales training that he showed me is he would take.
Peter Miller:This is back before we had 3D builders and all that. You took a piece of paper on a clipboard and you drew out the shed and then he had that very neatly, cleanly put down clipboards and he had them stacked behind his desk in straight lines so that people, when they were sitting there, he could turn around and say, yes, these are customers that I've sold already this month. And I'm telling you he had like 30, 35 clipboards on the back table there and he wasn't lying by it. He was literally selling that many sheds every single month, and so that builds the confidence. Hey, this guy knows what he's doing from point A to point Z. He's been able to show me everything I need to know and then closing that sale. So early in the career I was mentored, I guess you would say, by this guy, and it was something that has helped me to this day. So that was, I know, a little bit of a ramble.
Shed Geek:You're good, I enjoy it. I enjoy it. Uh, you know some of the just some of the. The most free or most cost effective sales training you can get today, in my opinion, is be a student of your consumer approach and like how you decide to be a consumer, listening to those who are trying to sell you on something and every little way, shape or form. There's so much that you can learn from people and you learn a lot of the do's and don'ts just from being a consumer.
Shed Geek:And then I would also encourage the shed industry. Like you know, if, if you got to remember, you're approaching the same zeal with the customer about your product that others are trying to sell you on. So I have found I don't know if it's this way in other industries, but specifically in the shed industry sometimes there can be a high expectation when it comes to their product or purchase but a low expectation when it comes to others. So I'm assuming you know, like, like I said, some of the best sales training you can get is being a consumer today and just paying attention to that.
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Shed Geek:Peter, you guys are awesome. You're going to be doing this Shed Cell Summit at this year's Shed Expo in Grand Rapids, Michigan. You're doing this on the 25th, which is a Wednesday, from eight o'clock to 10 o'clock. You've got limited number of seats available. You've got speakers who are going to be there, sponsors, representatives of just different things. What's it cost to get in?
Peter Miller:So tickets are $29.95 a person and that'll get you in there. One of the things that we were able to do is those who sign up for the tickets. They also get a free month's sales training for making sales simple.
Peter Miller:So, you sign up, you would be able to get a month free of that sales training. You know this doesn't fit everybody. I guess I'm more honest than most people would be, but I would say sometimes online sales training is good for people and sometimes that personal coaching is the way to go. Personal coaching is the way to go. We did Making Sales Simple and that sales training, because we can't be everywhere at one place at one time, but at least you get that opportunity to see, hey, what's this all about. But going back to that Shed Sales Summit, you nailed every single aspect there.
Peter Miller:The camaraderie of the salespeople and the camaraderie of our shed industry should be on full display at that sales summit and I'm super, super excited to see what goes on, and then for future years, for more sales summits along the way.
Shed Geek:And if you're going to the expo already, guys, what's it hurt to go ahead and get some sales training, send your team. Even if you don't want to go, send your team in there. You know, maybe they'll benefit from. It's 30 bucks. You know it's a I don't know. They used to say it's $1 a day for coffee. So I mean, like you can go a long way on that. I don't know what coffee is now, but I bet it's more than a dollar. So I'm so happy to see guys like you and Andrew and Peter meeting you guys down in Greenville. That was really awesome. And just watching you guys develop and build a relationship with you that I hope is a long-term relationship, and seeing you guys continue to offer value through your own experiences and expertise, I think it's amazing. I think it's awesome Congratulate you and I sure hope people show up and you sell it out to where you have to get a bigger one next year. That's what I hope.
Peter Miller:So yes, sir. Well, thank you for having us here on the podcast. Your friendship, it means the world. You know, every time we get off a call it's like hey, let's do it again Shed Geek podcast and you know your whole company line with the rentals and with the marketing. It's been awesome to watch how, how the Lord's blessed you and your companies and I count you a friend and super excited to see you, if not before, at the Shed Builder Expo, the Shed Sales Summit.
Shed Geek:For sure, man, yeah, we know what we have and why we have it, and it's not by our own, uh, talents and skills and in any of that, it's because the lord has been faithful and, uh, by us being trying to just remain obedient. Um, you know, obedience is greater than sacrifice and I think that, no matter what you lose, um, I think you always gain the right things by just staying obedient and you get some really cool relationships like this through it too. Man, like not everybody, can you know? If you just sat me down and said, you know what are you going to be in my senior year of high school and someone said, actually you're going to be a podcaster or this or that, I'd have been like what is that? What are they talking about? And it's certainly outside of my wheelhouse.
Shed Geek:Even getting in front of people to speak was something that took me a while, but you know there's a vulnerability there that when you open yourself up to that, you actually see some growth in your own self. And I've had so many people say, man, I'm so glad I came on there, because it just wasn't as bad as I thought or it kind of got me out of my shell. It's what I needed to do, and I'll tell you what if you're a salesperson, that ought to be paramount, it ought to be a priority. You're going to have to speak to people, so, uh, right, you know, find a way to make that comfortable. I hope that you guys nail it. Also, I wanted to mention if you guys are looking for information and you just want a quick solution on how to do that. You see our newsletter go out every Monday, Wednesday and Friday with the episode. There's an episode registry on there for those in the plane community who want to know where to find a particular episode.
Shed Geek:Below that you're going to see either today's guest with a bio or you're going to see today's advertisers. If you are an advertiser or want to be an advertiser on mine or Susan or Sam show, let us know. We glad to try to have a conversation or send you some information on that. But below that you'll see some digital ads. Those digital ads are real simple. Uh, it's 1200 bucks a year for those digital ads and we can make that a clickable link to wherever you want your website. Especially if you've got some tags on your website, you can kind of see the traffic that's coming to it from that. If not, we have some analytics on that through our email service, mailchimp, so you can just go click on that link or any other link. But if you go click on the Shed Sales Summit link, I think we've got it attached to a lead form, maybe, peter, where people can just click and go ahead and sign up right there, or to go straight to your website where people can sign up.
Peter Miller:Right. It goes right to ShedSalesSummit. com. It pops up with the option to purchase tickets. You can buy those tickets and scroll down and be able to see a little bit of the info of what's going to be going on. And one of the things that we are going to be doing at the summit is we're going to have a question and answer time. So, there is a spot at the bottom of that page to submit a question. Please go ahead and get those questions in so that way we can get those to the panelists and be able to answer those questions, because you know what we want hard questions. We want to be able to help you when it comes to your shed sales questions and hurdles and objections and all those things. We want you to sell a million sheds if possible.
Shed Geek:Dude, I think that's awesome. I love it. I love the q a. I always love audience participation. And do me a favor, guys. This means a lot to me. Uh, whenever you come to the event or you see the guys, tell them. You heard about it on the shed geek podcast. Uh, it helps me try to sell advertising to these guys. So, uh means a lot. Peter always appreciate it real quick. Did you have any questions? We didn't get to do this the first round and I've been doing. I don't. I don't think I was doing this the first time. We had you on the podcast down in Greenville. But do you have any questions that are live podcast, spiritually related, shed related? It really doesn't matter. Nothing's off limits for me that you would want to ask, just unequivocally.
Peter Miller:Just caught me off guard there just a little, I guess, if you could. The question, I don't know, this is right off the cusp. So, with the podcasting, you've created this into a business model for you and it sounds like your family, how, I guess. I don't know if proud is the right word, but how proud does that make you feel, uh, that you're not able to just do something that you never thought you were going to do, but that now you're able to take your family in on that, uh, on that journey, uh?
Shed Geek:you know, when I I just started writing a column in shed business journal and the first thing I did was give a shout out to a few people um, one late gentleman rest his soul, uh, Burtis Bright. He was the um he was. He was the head of uh human resources at Graceland when I started there in purchasing Curtis Creason, who was just an amazing guy, still is. He was a great boss, you couldn't ask for better. And Jonathan Rentfro, who's a childhood friend of mine, who's associate pastor and really stayed the course. You know what I mean. And I was just, I was just super proud of him because, like I didn't feel, like I had the confidence to be that. And when I found the shed industry I was at a low and Jonathan really introduced me to it by giving me a job opportunity, by making the connections with the folks there at Graceland where he had been for a couple of years.
Shed Geek:And the one thing I was struggling with the most was my identity. You know, I was talking to Travis Parks yesterday and I said you ever sit down on a bench at like Walmart and you're like talking to the old guy there and it doesn't take long to strike up a conversation and the next thing you know you're asking like outside weather, you're like so what do you? What do you do? What'd you do for a living? That seems to show up quick in men's conversations anyway, and I was just sort of raised that, like you know, you had to take care of your family. That's one thing. That you had to work hard, that was going to be imperative and I just didn't have an identity of like what I wanted to do. To see that come full circle, where my wife was able to leave her job and come to work here. My son, who came back from college, is working here, my daughter's working part-time. I used to see families who could do this. I especially see it now in the Anabaptist communities where they take their whole family and I just envy that. To be able to do that, so my family is my, everything you know, and to be able to spend time with them, I don't know.
Shed Geek:I think it's the American dream man. I think it's as good as what it can get and I'm thankful that the Lord gives us that opportunity to work together. Me and my wife are a well-oiled machine. We're coming up on 25 years anniversary in March and you know we started dating when I was 15 years old. We we've, we've done life together, you know, literally. And um to you know, I hear guys say I couldn't work with my wife and I'm like man, I couldn't work without her. You know like I actually enjoy, we enjoy each other's company, you know, and uh, we work well together. So anyway, dude, great question. I've never had that one and it means everything to me. I need to do a podcast with just my family, just to like introduce, you know, them to people who don't know, because they're some of the most awesome people.
Shed Geek:So, right, uh, appreciate the question, always appreciate your friendship, conversation, relationship. I can't encourage people more to go to the shed cell summit. I think it's going to be excellent. I think we need this. I think, from small companies to large companies. I think that we see that there's a vulnerability there and that you guys are working to fill the gap, and I think that's awesome. So, peter, I know that you're a pastor's son, right, so I think I can ask you to pray. Is that okay? Like, are you comfortable with that?
Peter Miller:Absolutely yes, sir.
Shed Geek:All right, pray us out of here today, man.
Peter Miller:Let's pray, Dear Heavenly Father, we do thank you for your ever-continuing blessings on us. Lord, you're a good God all the time and we thank you for giving us the desires of our heart, being able to do the things that we love. But, Lord, that we would be able to bring you honor and glory in everything that we do. We pray, Lord, for the events coming up the rest of this year, that you would have your will and way in those and that you would give us a good rest of the week and that we would honor and glorify you with every action that we take. We love you, Lord, and we ask this all in Jesus' name, Amen.
Shed Geek:Amen, amen. Appreciate you, my friend, I appreciate you.
Peter Miller:Thank you.