Shed Geek Podcast

Behind the Wheels: Insights into Shed Hauling

• Shed Geek Podcast • Season 4 • Episode 69

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What are the secrets to a thriving shed hauling business? Learn from the best as we sit down with Cliff Knepp of Southern Indiana's Knepp Trucking to uncover his journey from managing six rigs to overseeing a diverse fleet of eight. Hear firsthand how Cliff masterfully balances local and regional routes to keep his drivers happy, and dive into the unique challenges of long-haul shed deliveries, including memorable trips to North Carolina.

Transport yourself to the scenic landscapes of Kentucky and Southern Indiana as we reminisce about the past and discuss the technological advancements that have revolutionized the shed industry over the past 25 years. Discover the excitement building around the upcoming annual shed hauling event, complete with community activities and a grand prize of a 22-250 high-powered rifle. Cliff also sheds light on essential industry insights, from the importance of financial prudence and good drivers to meticulous maintenance and customer service.

Join us as we celebrate the passion and commitment within the shed industry, emphasizing its impact on local communities and economies. From personal stories to expert advice, we cover everything you need to know about successful shed hauling. Don’t miss this engaging episode, packed with industry knowledge, heartfelt stories, and a preview of exciting events on the horizon!

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Studio Sponsor: Union Grove Lumber

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Sambassador:

All right guys, welcome back to another episode of the Shed Geek podcast. Friday fun day, Sambassador version the best one out there. That's the one you want to get. They're all pretty good, but I'm honored to be here today with somebody that I've been working on for a little while. I pulled him in almost kicking and screaming, but he's calmed down quite a bit, so I think we'll be all right. Cliff Knepp from Southern Indiana. Knepp Trucking. How are you today, man?

Cliff Knepp:

Good, good. Yes, I'm Cliff Knepp, located in southern Indiana and a shed hauler, I guess.

Sambassador:

Yeah, I think you're a little more than just a shed hauler. You seem to have a fleet. Well, if you're a shed hauler and we could use the term that birds of a feather flock together, I guess that might be true, because it seems like you have quite a few guys that are following you around up there.

Cliff Knepp:

There's a few of them. There's a few of them. What do you got right now? How many? What?

Sambassador:

How many rigs are you running right now?

Cliff Knepp:

We're running six of them on sheds, running six rigs on sheds, and then I've got eight rigs total.

Sambassador:

I've got two running.

Cliff Knepp:

Oh, please don't tell me you're going to tell me you're running General Freight yeah, that stuff that pays a lot. General Freight, that high dollar stuff.

Sambassador:

No, it ain't a dollar more. That's true.

Cliff Knepp:

I do have one truck running over the road. He does run a flatbed and then I've got one truck running a dump trailer. Oh, really. In the wintertime we do pull some of the trucks off the sheds and run dump trailers with those as well, if we need to, to keep it going yeah.

Sambassador:

Are you running like end dumps or bottom dumps, or what are you doing?

Cliff Knepp:

It's end dumps like the half-round dump. Trailers.

Sambassador:

Yep, yep.

Cliff Knepp:

Local stuff.

Sambassador:

How far out do those guys go?

Cliff Knepp:

They're home every night. They'll run. A lot of it is Lime, fertilizer, feed mill, bean mill, even a little bit of beans and corn. And then there's also A drywall plant Located just about 50 miles from here and we haul a lot of jip in there To make drywall. Oh, nice, like a lime substance. So, it's a like a nice yep, like a lime substance. It would look a lot like lime that you're out in the field, but it's. They use it. It's used in the drywall, that's what it is.

Sambassador:

So, I got you um. So, at what? At what point do you decide you're going too far from home? Like just as long as they're getting home every night, pretty much You're good with that. Or do you consider yourself regional or local?

Cliff Knepp:

I would be considered local overall. The over-the-road guy he gets out. I mean, he has went as far as California but he doesn't. We try to get him home every weekend, for sure. A lot of times he's home by Thursday, Friday, something like that, but yeah. So yeah, he's the only one that stays out much overnight. We have been getting. We've got a local shed company here that started hauling for it and those guys they build storage units and we run them quite a ways sometimes. Actually, the driver just came back from New York on that. So, we will do a two-, three-day, even four-day run if that's what it takes.

Sambassador:

Yeah, I was going to bring that up. The fact that I know that not all your sheds are local either, like you've done some, runs pretty far out on some of your shed stuff too.

Cliff Knepp:

We have. Yes, yeah, we're starting to get into that a little bit more. I had a hard time getting some drivers interested in doing those long hauls, but the one guy now, Joe Miller, he actually likes the long hauls and he started doing quite a few of those now.

Sambassador:

Nice, you had some runs coming down even into like South Carolina, North Carolina, or Tennessee. Where were you bringing those little guys down to?

Cliff Knepp:

Yeah, last year about this time we had I think it was 80-some units that was going down to North Carolina area. It was the Charlotte area. They was coming down in there and anyway they was going to trailer parks. So, every trailer park had one little storage barn, you know. So, I'd set them all up on along each trailer. Every trailer got one, just went down the road.

Sambassador:

That's a pretty good, that's a pretty good sale right there I've gotten. I'd get to where I had a niche in a certain trailer park. I'd sell one to one guy and his neighbor buy one, and then his neighbor buy one and I always said, man, I ought to find the guy that runs the whole trade apart and get them all in here. And you know what? It's kind of interesting. Most of those are smaller storage sheds. Not too many of those get turned into. You know all the other nightmares and stuff we see. You know big cabins, people living in them and stuff.

Cliff Knepp:

Most of those are what we actually do storage you know big cabins, people living in them and stuff. Most of those are what we actually do storage, that's right. Yeah, these were just little eight batons is what they was. And boy they was light, cheap build, I mean they were just a metal frame, you know. They got a good one, though, for storage, for lawnmowers or whatever, you know.

Sambassador:

Yeah, that's cool. So, most of us, you know, on the hauler page, most of us guys we either haul for one main company or we might have we might have two or three companies. Is that pretty much how you find yourself? Or you seem to be a little more scattered all over, like you don't have any certain company you all for Maybe we do.

Cliff Knepp:

I'm actually Mervin Miller. I actually haul through the same company that Mervin Miller hauls for, to be honest with you, but they're called a different division up here. They're called Prairie Built Barns. They're still owned by the same guy that Mervin hauls for and I actually discussed with him one time. It's kind of interesting that we hauled for the same company in two different locations back then.

Sambassador:

Oh, that's cool.

Cliff Knepp:

Same deal, but that is actually my main coming down haul for is Prairie Built Barnes.

Sambassador:

Okay, so you do have a main gig that you kind of go by. They're built there right local. How far do you have to go to get them?

Cliff Knepp:

They are. They're built about 45 minutes from the home base here and that's where the main shop is. And yeah, they build quite a few of them out of there. I mean as a whole, we actually do keep five to six trucks busy most of the summer out of there. That is the main shop I pull out of.

Cliff Knepp:

I just have a lot of local. So, we have a local Amish shop I used to haul for and that's what I started hauling. I started with him and he's just five minutes down the road from my house here but um, but anyway, that's kind of where I got started. Then I got hooked up with this multi-state company I guess you go and that's been all for him, and that seemed to grow the company to where we are today.

Sambassador:

So and that would be picking up sheds at the plant, taking them to lots doing customer deliveries. That's right, yeah, we do all home deliveries.

Cliff Knepp:

We do all the home deliveries, do all the repos for them, basically every shed or every sale that produces out of that shop their dealer complex. I guess we would haul the sheds out of that shop.

Cliff Knepp:

I got you and how big an area does that cover? Our furthest lot would be close to where there's times when we get done, we're like five hours from home. You're probably looking at about 250 miles from the shop.

Sambassador:

Do you get down into Kentucky at all?

Cliff Knepp:

We don't a whole lot. We run Illinois quite a bit. We don't a whole lot. We run in Illinois quite a bit. We do get down in Kentucky some, but we mainly haul. We do go over in Ohio a little bit as well. So, it's basically southern Indiana, southern Ohio and then pretty much all over Illinois. Our main state would be Illinois.

Sambassador:

Your main state is Illinois.

Sambassador:

See there, I didn't know that I had no idea.

Sambassador:

you did a lot. I knew you went over there some, because I see your trucks get caught you know yawn here over there every once in a while. So. I knew you were over there a little bit, but that's so basically you go up above Indianapolis a little bit. Is that considered southern part of the state?

Cliff Knepp:

Indianapolis, we do have one lot that is just north of Indianapolis a little bit. Is that considered southern part of the state? Um, Indianapolis, we do have one lot that is just north of Indianapolis a little bit, but that's actually pretty much a line in Indiana. Uh, it's Indianapolis. That's kind of where the dividing line is, and then there's another shop located up in Fort Wayne's.

Sambassador:

The reason we go west and now that would be.

Cliff Knepp:

Uh, you, probably you would know him, Sam. That's uh Alvin Lottinger. That's those guys up there, the Lottinger guys.

Sambassador:

Yep, yep. So yeah, that's right their shop is a Prairie Built shop.

Cliff Knepp:

That's right. Yeah, Yep.

Sambassador:

Cutting out a little bit there. Hopefully you'll come back and find yourself here in a minute. So, I was going to ask you about Southern Indiana. For those that don't know Southern Indiana, you're talking about hauling, you know, dump, uh and dump and stuff like that. You're, uh, you're in a very much different part of the country or demographically different than what I'm in. You still, you still actually have a lot of farmland there. You have a lot of country. You got some good hunting there. It's a little more rural, I guess, is the word I'm looking for.

Sambassador:

That is right, we have a lot of rolling hills.

Cliff Knepp:

Now we get into the northern part of the state, it's just a flat plains out there. Down here in southern Indiana we have a lot of rolling hills. Actually, in the far south we get into pretty good what you'd call not mountains, but they get some interesting barn sets. You know where one side's on the ground, the other side's about four foot in the air. Yep especially when you get around the river Yep. That's right. That's right. We do have a lot of farmland right in this area. Fairly rich soil. It's a beautiful country.

Sambassador:

Yeah, so you're actually in a part of, in an area that I'm very familiar with. Back before I got married and moved to the deep south, I lived in Kentucky and we used to go up and spend quite a bit of time in Davis County. I had a lot of friends up there youth friends, kids we hung out with and stuff and knew a lot of the people up there. And then, as you know, later on in life my dad actually got married to a widow lady from up there and you even know some of my step family and stuff in that area. So, yeah, very familiar with that area.

Sambassador:

It is interesting that you guys you don't just deliver like around here. We pretty much everything we deliver around here is inside of a mountain, we're in the foothills, everything's rolling. There is a couple lots that would be south of here that get more into the sandy flatland, but it's still pretty rolling. But southern Indiana one of the things that intrigues me about it, and southern Ohio too, is the closer you get to the river, the more rolling country I mean it's almost mountainous area around there.

Cliff Knepp:

I mean it's almost mountainous area around there. Yeah, I mean there's times you think you're in the mountains if you don't really know what the real mountains are yeah. Well, it's more like canyons. That's right. That's right, yeah.

Sambassador:

Yeah, so let's get back to what when does. Oh, we lost him. Is he going to come back? It's crazy. You take just like podcast. You know if you if you would have thought about that Ten years ago that we'll be driving down the road and watching or listen to podcasts, you know, talking about sheds or whatever. It'd be like what you can't do that watching or listening to podcasts talking about sheds or whatever you'd be like what you can't do that. And 10 years before that, selling a shed online or whatever nah, you'll never sell sheds online. You know what I'm saying. It's like we were talking about it at lunch today. It's amazing the technology that has came and showed up what we've gotten to see in the last 25 years. I feel like I live in a time where there's not another 25-year period where you get to see as much change as what we've seen yeah, it has been you know what?

Cliff Knepp:

I mean I know what you mean. It has been amazing and last, just last 10 years. What's changed, really?

Sambassador:

but yeah, you talked about online sales.

Cliff Knepp:

Um, shoot they, the one dealer we have. Uh, she says she sells. I think it's 90 percent. 90 percent of her sales are online, said she never see the customers, so yes, I had an interesting set the other day. I have pulled up to a guy's house and he looked at me and he I mean his jaws fell open. He was like wow. He said that barn's built already.

Cliff Knepp:

He said I thought it was going to come as a kit

Sambassador:

oh no, he thought he was gonna have to put his shed together that's right, that's pretty good, that's yeah, that's. That's right, that's pretty good, that's yeah, that's. You know, that's one of the cool things. Well, you know you talk about technology. We wouldn't know each other if it wouldn't be for Facebook.

Cliff Knepp:

That's right.

Sambassador:

I'd probably be in and out of Indiana a couple times since then already and see some of my buddies. You know my stepfamily and stuff. What Facebook has done, social media has done, to draw us together as an industry and as a group, is crazy. It's like you know well you talk about. You know she sells 90% online. I know guys out in Texas that I mean you drive 30 minutes from anywhere and you get on this road that has four houses and three shed manufacturers.

Sambassador:

You know it's they sell everything online they sell a lot of sheds yeah, and you know I tell them every time I'm down there man, you guys need to put lots in. Just think how much more you'd sell, because you know my thing, you should have all of it, not just one or two of them. That's right. How long? How long you been, how long have you been doing sheds?

ADVERTISEMENT:

What was that? You heard that too, Sam. What was that? Oh, that wasn't supposed to come out. What was it, Sam? I was given some confidential information. Not sure what I'm supposed to do now that you heard that, though. Well, what was it? I was given some confidential information. Not sure what I'm supposed to do now that you heard that, though.

ADVERTISEMENT:

Well, what was it?

ADVERTISEMENT:

You got to tell us. Well, you can't tell anyone, but the cardinal engineers, the mule guys, have been at it again. They heard all the hollers bellyaching about a bigger machine. You know how they're always fussing about it ain't big enough. Well, guess what, they've got a bigger machine. You know how they're always fussing about it ain't big enough. Well, guess what, they've got a bigger mule, a lot bigger. What? How about a mule with a 70 horsepower diesel engine that's built to move 40,000 pound sheds? You ought to see it. It's a real beast of a mule and it's up to any shed challenge. No way, Sam, a diesel donkey like you had. I mean, that's fantastic.

ADVERTISEMENT:

Yep, a diesel donkey like I used to have. Hey, there's a lot more stuff coming, but I've said enough. I'll get in trouble soon if I say any more. Just come to the Shed Show and see it all at booth 217.

Cliff Knepp:

I started back in 2006. Started with a one-ton dually truck pickup and had a little flatbed trailer. It wasn't even a shed trailer, actually, it was just one that had a, it had like a dovetail off the back, a flatbed trailer with a dovetail, and we'd slide our sheds up on there. And well, first of all we'd jack them up with handyman jacks.

Sambassador:

Yes.

Cliff Knepp:

Back, that dovetail underneath there, and then we'd do whatever it took. We had a winch on it, so we took the winch up to it, we jacked the back up. We're pushing with a skid loader or whatever we had to do to get her up there. Then we got her rolling on there, got her tied down. Then we'd get there and we'd back up as close as we could, you know, and get her angled in there and then have to use a handyman jack to set her back down. One thing I always have a guy with me and one good thing it's amazing how much you can do with about a 10-foot steel pipe. Yes, we get a 10-foot steel pipe. Yeah, we always. We get the shed unloaded and it was at an angle or something and you could put that steel pipe up against the back of your trailer. Back up you could just twist that shed.

Sambassador:

Whatever you needed to do to get it where it, where you needed itself and, if you had to, you put the pipe under it, rolled the building around wherever you had to go that's right yeah tell my guys they're spoiled with track machines and everything else nowadays. Now we've got so much now. We've got so much stuff we've got to work twice as hard to pay for.

Cliff Knepp:

That's right. That's right. A lot more, a lot more overhead that way to yourself.

Sambassador:

What's your? What's your worst? Do you have a word Like so? If somebody asked me what's your worst experience in delivering a shed, you know I have a half a dozen things that pop right up my mind. You have any of those Like the ones that? You're like oh man, I hope we never do that again.

Cliff Knepp:

Well, I'm not sure what to say. I had one not too long ago actually Took a shed all the way down for a local guy. I had one all the way down to Gatlinburg, Tennessee. It was down in the mountains, down there, in the real mountains, not just the rolling hills.

Cliff Knepp:

No, no, you're in this, got her down in there. And well, first of all I had a driver haul it down there and he thought the guy that bought the shed thought that he could just back her right up there with his semi and wouldn't be no problem at all. When he got down there and it's this little, I don't know probably eight foot wide mountain road that angled up and went around the, went around the curve and there was a tree, a mountainside, on one side. It was just leveled off, you know, for the dozer and make the trail, and so the mountain's going up on one side. There's a tree right here on the drop off the other side and it's not even wide enough in the shed go through it.

Cliff Knepp:

Driver said you got to cut the tree down before we get up there, so he had to get a timber jack in to do that. So, we dropped the shed there and then, uh, how was it? We went back a week later, me and another driver did with two mules. He had a mule on each end and finagled that thing up in there and then he wanted it on a platform that was still about five foot off the ground, right on the side of the mountain here. So, he had built this wooden ramp going up the platform. Oh, no.

Cliff Knepp:

We got this thing started. I've got some pictures of it. It's pretty interesting. But he got this thing started up, that platform with dolly wheels, and about that time the platform gave away. And here it went like that. Right there we thought for a while he was going to average the bottom of the mountain.

Sambassador:

Oh, my word.

Cliff Knepp:

We sweated through that one for a while but we got her down. That was just one of them I can think of. We've had a lot of them. But we did get her up on there with some pipe help and whatever we had to do to get up there. We reinforced the ramp, had to put some blocking under the ramp to make it stronger.

Sambassador:

So you actually drove one of your mules up the ramp.

Cliff Knepp:

No, what we done is we put dolly wheels on the. We had two mules there that day, but we put dolly wheels on the front side and we just pushed it up the ramp is what we did. So the dolly wheels were running up the ramp I got you, but it was a finished out. He's going to rent it out as an Airbnb. It was a finished out cabin. I think size is maybe 14 by 32, I think is what it was Completely finished out, had a bathroom, everything in it.

Sambassador:

Oh, my word. That was my next question was how big a building was it? But that's 14 by 32, going up the side of a hill. That's a big building. I don't care what anybody says.

Cliff Knepp:

That's a big building, yeah, those Texas boys, they'll tell you.

Sambassador:

You know it ain't big until it's an 18 by 60 or something like that. And I'm like, well, send me some pictures where you go up, you know, up the side of a mountain, where the freshly cut bulbos are.

Sambassador:

And you know we always kid around on the hauler page that pictures never do it justice, which they don't.

Sambassador:

You just can't get it. If you give me those pictures, we can actually throw them in here. Shannon will make the where people can see those and it's kind of cool. Goes with your story.

Cliff Knepp:

OK yeah, it's always always kind of cool. Goes with your story.

Sambassador:

Okay yeah, it's always it's always kind of yeah, always kind of neat to have that in there.

Sambassador:

Um, were you at the Tennessee bash

Cliff Knepp:

uh, the one, you mean the original one at 19 yeah, the Belvedere one yep, yep, I sure was, I was down.

Sambassador:

Yeah, I was gonna say I think that's where I kind of first met you, but it seemed like the Pennsylvania and it sounds like I'm going on a rabbit trail, but I'm actually going somewhere with this. It seems like the Pennsylvania one is kind of the one that got you all bought into the idea that you know what doing barbecues, getting together hanging out is a really good thing to do, because you went and started one.

Cliff Knepp:

Yeah, that is exactly right and yeah, that is exactly where we got the. How would you say? It enlightening to do something like that. We had a good time at the Pennsylvania. I had a good time at Tennessee as well. At the first one. I thought that was really fun. I had a good time at Pennsylvania and I wonder if we got to thinking that and maybe we should have one in the Midwest Wonder if you all would be interested. So went ahead and put it on Facebook just to see what kind of interest I would get.

Cliff Knepp:

And man, I tell you what we got a lot of interest all at once. So everybody was like yeah, sounds like fun it did.

Sambassador:

And you had great results, your first time around too that's right. Yeah, yeah, we had to come, so we're going to make sure we get this. Some of these episodes get backed up a little bit, but we're going to make sure we get this episode out before yours. You're the first weekend, the first Saturday in September this year. Is that what you're doing?

Cliff Knepp:

um, no, it's actually going to be. I think it's the third Saturday, to be honest with you. Oh, is it really? Maybe not September 14th?

Sambassador:

I think, I have the wrong date. That is interesting. I'm pretty sure it's the second Saturday.

Cliff Knepp:

I'm not looking at a calendar right now.

Sambassador:

Yeah, it'll be the second Saturday.

Cliff Knepp:

Second Saturday okay, yeah, September 14th.

Sambassador:

You know what? That's what I got in my calendar. I just told Deanna wrong. I told her it's the first Saturday, so we actually have an extra week to get this worked in there you go. Yeah, let's talk about that a little bit. You guys showed up in Pennsylvania, man, you guys showed up and showed out. You had all the fancy rigs out front. Were you picking up some? No, you brought WKM's trailers in, didn't you?

Cliff Knepp:

That's right.

Sambassador:

Yeah.

Cliff Knepp:

I had actually bought. Those was actually mine. I had bought two of them that year that spring. We was kind of in a growing spurt right then, and so I bought two new ones, and then they wanted to use those two. We kind of made sure it came out that they was finished over that time right over there. I think it was march maybe, when that was anyway, and then we just pulled those out there to use as their demo trainers.

Sambassador:

So yeah, okay, yeah, so they were. They were your trainers they were.

Cliff Knepp:

They were my trailers, yeah, and I still have those today yeah, you're still running those.

Sambassador:

That's right yeah, Okay, very good, so yeah. So you go back home and you're like, hey, let's throw one of these together, get good results from it. Do you remember what the turnout was on the first one?

Cliff Knepp:

I think we would have had arounds something like that and maybe 175 to 200 people there. On the very first one, yeah, nothing like the big bass, but we still had a lot of fun.

Sambassador:

Yeah, you do. Is this the third one or the fourth one?

Cliff Knepp:

This is the fourth one. We're getting ready for the fourth annual. Goodness, that is crazy. Amazing how time flies. That is crazy, yeah, Amazing how time flies right.

Sambassador:

Oh, absolutely. So, yeah, you would have had one in 21, 22, 23, and now 24. So, yes, that's right. That's right, yeah, what are you expecting?

Cliff Knepp:

this year. What is it looking like? We're hoping for a big turnout. Yeah, like I said, it's September 14th of this year and it's going to be at the same place again, the Simon J Graver Complex building. It's a big building, got concrete out front, nice place to park the rigs. We're looking. Last year we had I think we had in the 40s like 45, 48 rigs, something like that and around 250 people. I'm hoping to top that this year. Should hit 250 people.

Sambassador:

So I'm hoping to top that this year.

Cliff Knepp:

So we try to make a little more enticing. To bring a rig. We always have grand prize and you can't buy raffle tickets for the grand prize. It's only if you bring a complete shed rig that you get a grand prize. Get entered in the grand prize drawing. We gave away a fishing trip one year. Last year we gave away a grill.

Cliff Knepp:

And this year we're giving away a 22-250 high-powered rifle, and it's going to be a special edition, so we may post pictures of it here in a little bit, but it's definitely one you won't want to miss.

Sambassador:

That is awesome. I'm going to have to find somebody's rig to steal to bring up there, or else find a local guy up there that I can get his rig from.

Cliff Knepp:

Go to Betsy and bring her along.

Sambassador:

Yeah, I heard that.

Cliff Knepp:

Yeah, good food. Yeah, we're going to have some barbecue pulled pork barbecue and we always get the banquet meal catered in. Should have cheesy ranch potatoes. Go with that and all the fixings.

Sambassador:

I want to give a shout out to any of your sponsors. Everybody coming back, that's normally on.

Cliff Knepp:

Yeah, we sure can do that. We actually had posted just this morning I posted the flyer and all the events, and I've got a lot of attention even today about people wanting to help out with the sponsorship. So, we really appreciate everybody that helps out and makes it possible, I should say. But one big one I'd really like to shout out to is Cardinal Leasing, Jonathan Miller. He has stepped up to the plate from very first one. He has taken over the banquet meal and he has taken care of the banquet meal for us every year and he just reached out to me this morning and said put me down for the banquet meal again.

Cliff Knepp:

So big shout out to him for doing that taking care of the banquet.

Sambassador:

Yeah, they don't come any better than him. He's a good man, he's good to have around.

Cliff Knepp:

Jonathan's hard to beat. He sure is. There's a lot of other good ones as well. Cardinal, of course, is going to do the mule competitions. We're going to have three levels. We're going to have first place, second place and third place. They're going to do those and sponsor those. They also sponsor the building for us which is the big complex there. That's a big sponsorship as building for us, uh which is the big complex there and that.

Cliff Knepp:

So that's a big, that's a big sponsorship as well for us. And then WKM um, I, uh, yeah, I buy all my trailers from WKM. Not a Pine Hill guy, so, but uh, I, I don't mind Pine Hill, but we are about three hours from WKM two and a half to three and they have always treated me very well. Norman just can't get much better than Norman when it comes to service or whatever. So, they have always stepped up to the plate. They sponsor the truck competitions and we also have first, second, third place on that and we're going to do that same this year and they sponsor that as well, and they usually have a trailer there and everything for vendor setup.

Sambassador:

Oh yeah, yeah. WKM has always been on board. They're great guys, always willing to help. I always like to see the trash talking that happens between the WKM and the Pine Hill guys and then the. Myers boys show up. They all want to flex their muscles. You know, know, I can post pictures of all of them being broke.

Cliff Knepp:

It's that's right. That's right. That's what I've always said before they. Anything that's man-made, it's going to break sometime, when you're all a chance

Sambassador:

especially if you let a shed hauler get a hold of it.

Sambassador:

It's, it's just a given they're going.

Sambassador:

You know it's, you know that's. It's actually a huge testament and a shout out to Cardinal and their mules. You know the stuff that we put those things through. You know you and I started when we didn't have those things we had to, you know, and we didn't have nice trailers. In fact I never day to day ran a nice trailer. When I started buying nice trailers and mules, I was doing it for my drivers. I never had it for me. I got the word. You know know I wasn't scared to do anything. Anybody did with a mule. But um, on average you just give me a good old little flatbed roller trailer and I was happy, as you know anybody yeah yeah before the days of mules uh, the shorter the trailer, the shorter the trailer.

Cliff Knepp:

Uh, it was the best way to go, really. I mean you could. It was amazing. Like I said, I ran probably close to two years with just a trailer and then I started with uh. Then I went to mule three. That was the first mule I had and boy that thing,

Sambassador:

you had a mule

Sambassador:

Three,

Cliff Knepp:

I had a mule three.

Cliff Knepp:

You talk about a Bucky Bronco.

Cliff Knepp:

It's like riding bulls for a while.

Sambassador:

Could you do like Keith and ride that thing without a building on it?

Cliff Knepp:

No, no, I never did master that. I tried it, a tiger too but I never did master all of it. Boy, you get that thing. I remember you'd get a building on it and jump on that little platform. It was just, you know, just a wee little platform, barely big enough to stand on. Uh, you get in a little bit out of level ground, start turning that sucker, start bouncing like this and, man, it felt like he was on a bull oh, my word.

Cliff Knepp:

But yeah, it was a lot of fun, but then, yeah, it was like then I went to mule four and uh, now we're running. Actually, we got all mule sixes now. So, uh, so yeah. We all went to all track machines now.

Sambassador:

You're running all track machines. You don't have any wheel machines.

Cliff Knepp:

Do not have any wheel machines at this point anymore. I don't think they'd let me go back to a wheel machine anymore. They'd probably quit.

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Sambassador:

So, let's talk a little bit about business side. You've done very well in seeming to keep your head together. Grow smart. I know you rotate some trucks in and out because I see them come up for sale and I see them go elsewhere. So, you know Merv Miller. He rotates trailers like nobody I've ever seen. I don't understand how he does it. Your trailers seem to hang around a little bit longer and you said a little bit ago you still have those trailers that you know you got four years ago. And Merv, be like man, please. It's time for new trailers. And listen, Merv is highly successful. What he does works for him. It doesn't work that way for everybody. Give me some thoughts on what good business looks like to you. What makes you tick? What makes you work as a business guy?

Cliff Knepp:

well, I don't know, you might have me on this one, but and sometimes it just goes with the flow, you know, but no one thing, uh, one thing I've figured out is uh and I know it's been said on here before but is the growing too quick? Uh, the growing too quick, going out there and spending all your money? Uh, you know, going getting big fast, I mean it, it looks good, feels good at the time, but unless you got a lot of work to back it up, uh, it takes a lot of work to back it up a lot of times, but, no, a lot of times. I mean, I used to trade. I used to try to trade about every three to four years. I trade trailers. I don't do that quite as much anymore.

Cliff Knepp:

I do have a 2018 model yet that I'm running, but that is my oldest one. Then the next oldest is those 21 models that I got. That was out at the PA bash. I don't know With the cost, with the high cost, I figured out that it's almost better to hang on to it for a while, do a little more repairs to them. That was my get for it.

Cliff Knepp:

But I mean, there's a lot of what works for some people doesn't work for others, you know so but, I like to hang on to them for a while and even if they need to do paint job, make them look better. Sometimes I give them fresh paint job, so yeah, how much?

Sambassador:

how much do you credit good drivers to?

Cliff Knepp:

that it makes a huge difference. I've always said the driver can make it or break it, and that is exactly, exactly right they can. That makes a big difference on how they take care of it. And maintenance is a real big key as well. You got to get out, they got to keep your wheel bearings up, got to keep your trailer slides greased. Yeah, just maintenance is big key. Uh, we have, uh, we usually every time the trucks go in for service, uh, they get everything gets going through. Check the wheel bearings, uh, check everything on the trailers. Uh, every, pretty much every, and that's about every 10 to 12,000 miles is what we run on that.

Sambassador:

So yeah, that's. You know I. I watch a lot of guys in this industry and, uh, we've got some good ones coming along right now that are they're doing it right, they're doing it slower, they're not spending all their money all the time on, you know, upgrading or adding other rigs whenever that somebody offers them a couple of sheds or whatever. I honestly feel like we're almost getting down to where we could put a list together of what can make you and break you in hauling sheds, and at the top of there I would put you know, don't grow too fast. Your people can make or break you and you have to keep up with your equipment. It is amazing to me.

Sambassador:

So I like to sneak off during the barbecues and the and the bashes. I like to sneak off and walk around people's rigs. It's uh. In fact, I tell the judges when we do the you know the judging contest with judges I tell them I said you know more important. Listen, I love chrome, I love lights, I love shiny rigs, but I like to look and see if I can find where the guy takes pride in areas that we don't normally look at, and I see that. I see that on Merv's rigs and see it on your rigs. Paul Stalmacher, you know I look at his rigs the way they're capped up. Vargas, you know, puts his guys in really nice rigs. I'm telling you you're not going to beat that little Detweiler kid on anybody for keeping a rig cleaned up.

Sambassador:

Detweiler is probably at the top of my food chain when it comes to guys that take respect and pride in their ride. Obviously, he's been there a long time. Something adds up. It's something adds up, you know it. It makes a difference.

Sambassador:

Um, what would you tell somebody that was looking? Let's say they come, okay, so right off the get, go. We see these guys show up on the page all the time. You know, hey, I want to get in the hole. Man, this looks like a blast, we're going to have fun. And you know, first thing I ask me is who you're going to haul for. Oh, I don't know. Well, okay, end of story.

Sambassador:

But let's say we find somebody. And let's say they come in there like, hey, look, you know, I found this company Very built. They're putting a big plan in over here and so and so. And you know, they're offering me, you know, 300 sheds the first year. What do you tell a new guy? And let's say he's in trucking? Let's say he understands truck, at least from, because if you don't even understand that part man, I'm just hanging my head. Um, but let's say he understands trucking a little bit. Um, what are we going to tell a new guy that comes in and says hey, I think I can do this. I'm, you know, fairly smart guy. I've been running trucks, what do?

Cliff Knepp:

you tell them well, I don't know. Uh, I will say that the shed industry and the shed hauling is completely different than general frank. There's not even a. I mean there's a connection because you're talking trucks, but there's, they're just the way to go about it. I mean there's a lot of points you've got to cross all in sheds. You've got to have a driver.

Cliff Knepp:

That, first off, he's got to be polite to the customer. We've all got all those customers you get out there. I just had one the other day. He wanted the barn one block high and I told him I said when we get to the other end, that barn's going to be two eight-inch blocks high. I said block high and I told him I said when we get to the other end, that barn's gonna be two eight inch blocks high. I said I think you need to leave that one down. He said no, no, go for it. So, I put those blocks under there, get done. Well, of course it's 16, 18 inches off the ground the other end and he said man, I don't like that. I said, no, hey, I don't think you will. You need to take that back off, but it's, it's all to um, it's all working with them. Um, if you don't work with the customer, he's not going to work with you.

Cliff Knepp:

A driver's got to be polite, but still they have to be. How would you say it? They've got to be creative because you've got to be able to get in this tight hole and do what you've got to do. So I think I mean the new shed hauler. What to tell him? First of all, he's got to be polite to the customer. He's got to keep his rig up. He's got to know how to drive a mule. That's a big plus and you can learn that with experience. I mean, not everybody's going to know right on hand, but yeah, it's not just closing trailer doors and driving down the road to the next drop.

Sambassador:

There's a lot of difference. So, I kind of set you up for that. Because you do some other hauling, you know what it's like, the whole general freight, regular freight, flatbed, dump and dump, close the doors and go. So, the setup to that for me is just be. It's like it doesn't even help that they come from the trucking industry. It's so foreign to the fact of what a shed hauler has to be. And the first thing is he has to be polite. But here's, here's what I'm going to add piggyback onto that is he has multiple customers that he's working with. He's working with the customer that he's delivering the shed to. He's working with the sales guy that sold that shed. He's working with the manufacturer that built that shed and unless he's an independent which he could be he's working for a boss that he has to keep happy. And then there's RTO company.

Sambassador:

You can pretty soon have four or five different people that can frustrate this guy every day, and that's one point, outside of the fact he has to have a can-do attitude, or half of them would never get put in. We got to figure out how to do it. That's not good for truck drivers. Truck drivers want to shut the doors and go down the road. You're exactly right. I agree, you have to be equipment minded, because the way these trailers work, if you have a really nice trailer and if you have a mule or whatever else you're running, you got to be able to set a building to where it looks good. You have to be able to.

Sambassador:

You know, I know guys, you know that set buildings on pads and they don't even carry a level. I couldn't do that myself. I, those dudes, they're my buddies, but I couldn't do that. Um, I can tell you know, I I grew up building houses, you know, and driving trucks. So it's like, I know, I got a pretty good feel of both of those. But I cannot stand if I pull up or if I'm driving down the road and I see a shed sitting over there it's on a nice gravel bed, did eight level, you know. I'm like come on, you know, push some gravel under one side, put a block under, do something, you know.

Sambassador:

I guess that's one reason why I still actually appreciate blocking sheds is because most times at least they're level, until you get a customer that says oh, I don't like it that way, put it back down, you know, and you leave the thing out of level, but it's, it's. It's a unique. I'm not. I don't feel like I'm throwing rocks at sales guys and builders and all the other pieces of our puzzle when I say that you can take somebody that builds houses and they can build sheds. You can take somebody that builds barns and they can build sheds. You can take somebody that sells cars and you can teach them how to sell sheds. All of those, you follow what I'm saying. You can kind of interact them fairly well there's. You know, it's like those videos that Matt Black keeps making for us and then God made a shed hauler. You know, like old Paul.

Cliff Knepp:

Harvey says there's just nothing there, just nothing quite like it. Yeah, I've always said it takes a special breed and it just to be honest with you I've been blessed with some very good drivers, I've been blessed with some very good ones and get ready to look for another shed hauler if one of them quits or whatever it's like you know quits and goes on to some males. It just kind of yeah, it kind of worries me. I mean where am I going to find somebody that can actually haul a shed? You know, I mean it takes a special breed, that it is for sure.

Sambassador:

Yeah, you know, we see a lot of them come and go. You don't really think about it until you're all of a sudden you're like, well, where'd that guy go? I haven't seen him in. And here's the funny thing the guys that are really good at it and actually do it, they can't seem to stay away either. They'll go do something else for a while and then they'll come back. Then they'll go do something else for a while. We're not going to say any names like Josh Stovers or Laverne Beachies or those guys, but you know what I'm saying.

Sambassador:

It's like I had an interesting conversation at lunch yesterday when I asked one of the guys that I feel like is one of the most brilliant minds when it comes to finance industry stuff, not even in sheds. I mean, he is in sheds but even outside of sheds, and I asked him I said, Richard, I said if you had all the money in the world at your disposal to do a business with, would you still stay in sheds? And he was like, yeah, I would, because that's where my heart is. And he says and I love this industry, I love everything about it. He says I would have things, I would do different, but I would want to help the shed industry and I can identify with that. Can you identify with that? Or are you like man? If I get the first chance, I'm going to real estate.

Cliff Knepp:

No, no, I totally agree with you as you was talking there. So I started back in 06 and I had done a little bit of construction right out of school and then I got right into shadow and fairly young which a lot of the guys do it seems like early 20s, you know and anyway they yeah, I just got into it and it's something that runs in your blood, I mean, I think you can see that whenever it seems like these guys are quick for a while and go do something else, they always want to come back to shed hauling. But I do believe it is. It's either you like it or you don't like it. I do believe there is some guys that just cannot get into shadowing. Whether it's just the wear and tear of it, I'm not sure what it is, but there is some that don't like it and I think you have to like it, enjoy it, to be able to do it all long term, I think.

Cliff Knepp:

But, yeah, I keep laughing. Now I say, that's all. I know how to do anymore. So I guess we'll just keep doing it.

Sambassador:

I'm with you all the way. It's, you know, it's I there's. There's times I'm pretty, pretty involved in my local community. I have a lot of business associate guys you know around that do other stuff. I'm sure you do too, because I just know who you are and I know that community, you know, and it's like, oh, I could go do a lumber yard, oh, I could go back building houses, I could flip houses, I could open a coffee shop, I could do an ice cream shop and all this stuff that and I don't know, maybe I'll do a coffee shop in an ice cream shop, you know, but my it's, it's like my heart is still in those dumb little buildings that we keep putting in people's backyards. That's where it's at. There is so much you can do. Richard talks about that on his episode.

Sambassador:

Go back and listen to the episode. It's actually a two-parter that I did with Richard Mashburn. Shannon actually did it, but it's on my episodes because I was in there with him, I think it is. Maybe it's on the Wednesday ones, I'm not sure. Find the ones with Richard Mashburn where he talks about what the shed industry can do for a community. It's incredible, you know, there's that thing floating around right now. I don't know if you've seen this on Facebook, where there's the big fancy jet sitting there and the guy comes up and he says think about how many people you could have fed with the money that you spent on this plane.

Cliff Knepp:

Yep, I seen that.

Sambassador:

And you know. You know his answer is fed all the guys that did the electronics for it. Fed all the guys that built the motors for it. Fed all the guys that you know actually designed the plane. Fed all the guys that fly it, build it and all the other.

Sambassador:

That is what's behind the shed industry. We have a plant that builds a shed and that plant supports its local people. We have sales guys, we have people in the office, we have RTO companies, we have haulers. It's a community thing. And what Richard was getting at was you can take somebody off the street and you can teach them how to do any part of this business if they have the willingness and the know-how. You can teach them if they're willing to be taught. I've taught guys how to haul sheds that didn't know nothing about driving trucks or hauling sheds. It's like you said, some of them are really good at it, some of them are really bad at it, but somewhere in the shed industry you can fit somebody in. You could support a whole community off of putting a shed in somebody's backyard. That's incredible that we have the ability to do that.

Cliff Knepp:

There's a lot of people involved, until that shed lands in your backyard right.

Sambassador:

Yeah, there is. There's a bunch of people involved, so I think that's cool. Love what you're doing up there.

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Sambassador:

man,

Sambassador:

We killed an hour almost in no time flat, and I didn't even find out who you are and all the other stuff I was threatening you with. Tell me just a little bit about Cliff as a person. Where did you come from? Are you married? Do you have kids? Come from a big family? What's the backstory on Cliff?

Cliff Knepp:

Okay, well, yeah, I grew up right here in Davis County, Grew up right here in Davis County. Mom and dad they was Mennonite Grew up Mennonite. They originally would have came from the Amish longer back, but by the time I was born it was Mennonite. And then, so, yeah, I've been basically Mennonite all my life. I went to church with a girl who lived five miles down the road and got married to her, married up, and so now we've got four beautiful children. We've got two boys, two girls, and the boy's got one now that's 14 years old. So, he's been helping me some in the shed industry. He likes to go along and help set up sheds. He likes more of the technology side of it. You know, like the younger generation seem to be. Yeah, he likes the technology side maybe more than the hollow block side, you know. But I don't think we can get it worked out. I mean, sometimes it gets grew up a little bit, hopefully. So, yeah, it's been a good life. It's been here all my life, pretty much so.

Sambassador:

Yeah, that's cool Compared to a guy like me who's moved everywhere. I moved everywhere as a kid. Once I got married I settled down, spent quite a bit of time in Georgia and now been here a lot longer than I was in Georgia, which just kind of blows my mind. Some days I can't believe how long I've been here at this spot. Almost feel like I've got roots down, which is what basically you guys all do up there. I love that community. I love the tight knit of it. I've got some really good friends there, love my step family up there. I don't get to see them near enough which I can see them more. I was just freaked out.

Cliff Knepp:

The first barbecue we had, I think, is when you informed me that you have a step family here, and I was just freaked out that my sister was married to one of your stepbrothers. So that's what's cool about it. That's awesome, isn't it?

Sambassador:

That's awesome, pretty cool.

Cliff Knepp:

Yeah, that's awesome, isn't it?

Sambassador:

that's awesome, pretty cool yeah you know that all goes back to technology, goes back to the fact that you know we have social media, we have Facebook. That draws us all together. You know, I'd like to say we're at a point now that we could actually do without Facebook. We'd still get together and have our events and we'd all hang out together, you know. But it is great to have what we have. Maybe, maybe your son will be the guy that comes up with the drone delivery.

Cliff Knepp:

If he likes technology, he'll figure out how to put a drone on four corners.

Sambassador:

Pick that sucker up and set it right in there. Yeah.

Cliff Knepp:

Then we can put them on top of them out.

Sambassador:

So, uh, any this. This is your time. Anything you want to get out to the public, that you want to share Any questions you have for any of us geeks. What have you got?

Cliff Knepp:

Well, hopefully you guys can join us at the upcoming barbecue that we're getting ready to have. Hopefully, I guess, Shannon's going to be there, is that right?

Sambassador:

Oh yeah, I think so, that's the plan we're going to try to drag Susan up there kicking and screaming. We'll see how that goes.

Cliff Knepp:

That sounds good, yeah, so no, I mean pretty much. Hopefully we get a lot of people here. I'll just go over some of the events here. I'm looking at the flyer right here, which that's on Facebook as well. But yeah, we're going to bring the whole family, got some for everyone, got bouncy house for the kids, going to have some ladies door prizes. Going to give away over $4,000 worth of door prizes is the plan. So, we've got a lot of door prizes coming up. So, a lot of shopping to do in the next few weeks here. And we are going to have breakfast on Saturday morning. We'll have breakfast from 8 am to 10.30. And then we're going to have breakfast on Saturday morning. We'll have breakfast from 8 am to 10.30, and then we're going to have some coffee and donuts available all day. We also are going to do a bugger and hot dog meal on Friday night.

Cliff Knepp:

So if you guys want to be in on Friday night. Anybody wants to come in? You can park your truck. We'll have the place rented already on Friday, so you can come in and park your truck, eat some buggers and hot dogs. Ran it already on Friday, so you can come in and park your truck, eat some burgers and hot dogs and just hang out. We're going to have a hangout.

Sambassador:

Friday night. That'll be great, yeah, what time are the competitions.

Cliff Knepp:

We're going to open the gates about 8 o'clock in the morning and then the competitions. Let's see around 9.30, I think is where I'm going to start competition 930, 945, 49 goes so.

Cliff Knepp:

I'm going to have some opening remarks, but yeah, somewhere in that, and then the banquet. What we normally do is we have the competitions, just run them all the way through, and then the banquet is about 2 in the afternoon. So, make sure you eat some breakfast a little later on maybe, and that way you can hold over until 2 in the afternoon. Then we'll have the big banquet and then we are going to have the parade at dusk, and that's one thing. One thing last year we had a lot of people go home and I understand they want to be home for Sunday.

Cliff Knepp:

You know it gets late so fast whenever they hang around like that. But we encourage you, hang around for the parade, it's a lot of fun. We take probably about an eight-mile trip, I'd say, through the community and we've done it so often now. The community word gets out and there's guys sitting along the streets and waiting on us. I mean it's amazing having people sitting in lawn chairs. You know we just drive right through the Amish community, so it's a lot of fun to hear the horns see the lights.

Sambassador:

Yeah, that's great. I do love the fact that you do a parade even if you lose. I know a lot of people they do go home. I feel like every year it's getting a little better, Like some of us are starting to be like, no, we don't want to miss the parade now, so we're hanging around a little bit longer. I think that'll help you. It's always good if your community gets involved in it to help with it. Just in case we missed it or somebody doesn't know, how do I find you on Facebook? What's the name of the Facebook page?

Cliff Knepp:

You mean on the Shed Haulers Barbecue?

Sambassador:

Yeah.

Cliff Knepp:

We actually do not have an actual page for the barbecue.

Sambassador:

It's just an event.

Cliff Knepp:

Just an event, yeah, so I've just been posting under my name. So just look up Cliff Knepp on Shed Hauler's and you will see all the posts that I make there.

Sambassador:

Okay, and if you can't find Cliff Knepp, look for me. I'll try to make sure I get it shared. A couple times too, I I'll try to make sure I get it shared a couple times too.

Cliff Knepp:

I normally try to get it in there. We'll try to share it multiple times that way, it's out there quite often. One thing I did forget to mention we do have a sign-up link on the post that you can click on. It says this is hosted by Knepp Trucking. Make sure and sign your name. Get signed up for that.

Sambassador:

That's the registration for the banquet.

Cliff Knepp:

That's more or less just to see how many people, because we have no idea if it's going to be. You know how many people it's going to be. We've got to have an idea on the food, so the catering lady wants to know that.

Sambassador:

Yeah, and coming from somebody who does big events, it's good to know an idea on food. It sure is oh, my word, that could be a headache.

Cliff Knepp:

Yeah, I don't even know how you guys keep track of all that stuff there at the bash. That would be a lot of stuff. To make sure you get the number all right.

Sambassador:

Technology man, technology and a really, really good cook. Yeah, oh, Jonathan man, he's awesome, he takes care of us, he does he does, so that makes our job a lot awesome. He takes care of us, he does, he does, so that makes our job a lot easier.

Cliff Knepp:

He loves every minute of it too, don't he?

Sambassador:

Yeah, and also I talked to Shannon about this the other day, and we keep forgetting to get our plugs in for this. You can also look up like Shannon will put it in the notes on the email what your event is so we can put the link in there into the email when the podcast comes out. But also, the newsletter that Shed Geek does also has the info in there. So, make sure that when you look up Shed Geek and anything Shed Geek related that you follow up on the what do you call it? The written side of it, I guess, because there's a lot more information in there than you realize sometimes. Even if we get it wrong sometimes, at least it's still in there.

Sambassador:

Well, hey, man, I know you're on a schedule, I know you want to skip out of town and go have some fun, and I don't blame you in the least, just much appreciate you taking the time to come on here. I told you an hour, go fast, it doesn't take long at all. Um, it's, yeah, it's, it's a lot of fun to do. Um, anybody out there that's hesitating or thinking about doing a podcast, give them a word, tell them how easy it is okay, okay, yeah it's not that hard, it's uh, it's, it's fun to do, has a story.

Sambassador:

We all need to hear it and, like we always said, education through entertainment gets us all a little further down the road. I had a guy asked me today. He's like you know, I don't. I don't understand what people even listen to it. It's like you're all preaching to the choir and I'm like, yeah, well, the choir wants more information and it works out great. You know, we're excited about listening to each other. Well, I do.

Cliff Knepp:

I will agree that. Uh, the shed haulers facebook page and podcast um, it is amazing how much information that people have. That I have gotten and people have gotten off of that. You know just different things. You can go on there ask questions. Uh, I know a lot of the questions sometimes get asked more than once, but you find a lot of info on there. Shedhaulers' Facebook page has been a big help in my industry, that's for sure.

Sambassador:

Yes, it is. It's a great place. We have our moments, just like any big family, but we normally figure out how to get through them and we work on down the road.

Cliff Knepp:

That is the main thing right?

Sambassador:

Yeah, so, cliff. Thank you very much, cliff Knepp Knpp Trucking. Is it Midwest Barbecue?

Cliff Knepp:

It's called the Midwest Shed Holders Barbecue. Yeah.

Sambassador:

Midwest Shed Haulers Barbecue, September 14th. You don't want to miss it. Thank you guys so much for being on with us today, for spending time with us and listening to us and, like I said, if you want to get the word out, get your story out there, reach out to any of us at Shed Geek and we'll be happy to hook you up. Thank you, guys, and have a great day.

Cliff Knepp:

Good having you, Sam. Thank you. Yes, sir, hey this is mo lunsford in sunny union grove, north carolina, and we want to say thank you to all the guests and listeners.