Shed Geek Podcast

From Construction to Sheds: Carl Zeiset's Journey

• Shed Geek Podcast • Season 3 • Episode 78

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Have you ever wondered how a construction professional transitioned into the shed industry, and not just survived, but thrived? Join me as I engage in a captivating conversation with Carl Zeiset, an industry veteran who switched from overseeing a construction company to shaping the future of the shed industry. In this vibrant discussion, we explore Carl's unique journey, discussing the nuances of different building processes, the potential for automation, and the surprising twists that awaited him in this new arena.

Carl Zeiset, known for his practical and proactive approach in business, sheds light on the significance of learning from the experiences of others to avoid repeating past mistakes. We discuss his approach to sales in the shed industry, emphasizing the value of personality, appearance, and demeanor. As we navigate the terrain of long-term career prospects and marketplace platforms, Carl offers valuable insights into the importance of reaching out to rural customers and the untapped potential of collaboration within the industry.

In the final part of our discussion, we explore the critical role of faith in business. Carl opens up about his connection with the Amish community and how the shed industry has served as a form of ministry for him. We discuss the concept of righteous anger, the importance of standing your ground, and the necessity of learning from others. Carl’s experiences remind us to give back, thank God, and uphold the values of collaboration and transparency. Tune in for an enlightening conversation that promises to shed light on the intricacies of the shed industry and the power of faith in business.


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This episodes Sponsors:
Studio Sponsor: Union Grove Lumber

Riehl Steel
MIDCO
Shed University
Realwork Labs

Shed Geek:

Okay, welcome back to another episode of the shed geek podcast and interview, round number two here at the Midwest shed haulers barbecue 2023. And I've got Carl sitting down with me, who I just met. So this is going to be a fun interview, I can tell already, because everything I'm saying is going to be off guard. Uh, Carl, tell me a little bit about, like, introduce yourself, who you are, your company and what you guys do.

Carl Zeiset:

Um, I'm Carl Zeiset and I build for Cumberland buildings. They're based out of Nashville, Tennessee. Um, we're more of a? Uh of a production company. Uh, we don't do any finished out buildings. Um, we kind of follow the Derksen model. If anybody's familiar with Derksen, that's pretty much the model that we follow.

Shed Geek:

I'd say most people are at this point pretty large company, pretty well known, so um so. So you're out of Nashville but now you live in Missouri.

Carl Zeiset:

Yes, Memphis, Missouri.

Shed Geek:

Okay, so that's where you build. That's correct. Okay, so how did you get what? What's your journey to the shed industry? How'd you get started?

Carl Zeiset:

Well, I had a construction company, um, I had about eight employees and we were busy and I had a fellow called me that said he had a friend in Bloomfield, Iowa, um, that was considering going into the shed industry. But he had backed out on him, um, and I said I'm sorry, I'm not interested. I had a lot going we were pouring concrete and I had a lot of employees and it went about a half year. He called again and said we didn't find anybody. Would you like to talk numbers? And I said I don't think so. I said I'm happy where I'm at. And he said um. Well, he said I've got three guys that want to come talk to you. At least let them come talk. And they showed up. Um, they came, they flew into Kirksville, Missouri, showed up at my door and went threw it all. I told my wife. I said let's do it.

Carl Zeiset:

Um, I had three boys at the time. I have four now, um, and they were getting older and I said this is some way to get my family into it. You know out, in construction we can't integrate children Quite as easy. In the shop is within 400 feet of my house, so it's really family oriented. That's what pulled me into the industry was for my family.

Shed Geek:

It's easy to work from home, correct? Uh yeah, you're not going to the job site all the time. When you've got young ones, it's uh, not to mention they learn a trade. They kind of pick up things around the shop and start to follow along. A lot of oh, that's right, a lot of them do so. Um, so now, how long ago was this? Has this been a while yet?

Carl Zeiset:

This was in 2019.

Shed Geek:

Okay.

Carl Zeiset:

When we started building was in March of 2019.

Shed Geek:

Very good.

Carl Zeiset:

Um, and it kind of hit me a little bit. You know we started in the 19. So we were gearing up. 20 was COVID, 21 was COVID, 22. They said was normal, which I have no idea what normal is. And now we're following kind of following the model of 22.

Shed Geek:

Okay, yeah, very, very good point. Um, that's, those two years were kind of their lips on the radar for all of us to kind of try to make sense of.

Carl Zeiset:

Yeah, we had, um, I think we built about 300 barns in 19,. Uh, in 20, we jumped up to maybe 500 in 21. We built 650 barns, Wow. And then last year we dropped back. So you know you don't want to see a new business dropping back, but we don't have a real realistic model to base it on.

Shed Geek:

Well, there, yeah, that's the thing You're. You started when it was up here and then it's trying to find some level, you know, level off somewhere and uh, sales are, I would say probably, depending on how your structured sales are typically uh, a little bit of a struggle right now because the economy is doing some different things. So we're probably having to adjust to things like that. What's been now. But you did you do construction prior. You said you did concrete, but had you done like new home construction or we did about anything.

Carl Zeiset:

I didn't finish new homes. I did a lot of concrete work, Um, I did. I had about 300 feet of wall forms, so we did a lot of pits for hog barns, um, and then frame the hog barns. That was what we did, but then in the winter you know when that slowed down we did a lot of new construction, Okay.

Shed Geek:

But you, so you would just get, you know, just dry them in pretty much. If you, if you did new home or anything like that, would you?

Carl Zeiset:

Correct. So we did a lot of concrete work and then we would frame and we didn't do any interior finishing.

Shed Geek:

So that kind of compliments you for what you're doing in the shed industry. That's something you could walk into, that's right.

Carl Zeiset:

And it was. You know, I didn't know anything about the shed, and it's right. No relation really. That did it. Um, I was clueless, but in some ways I think that helped me.

Shed Geek:

And that's a strong statement. Uh, you can. You can learn the wrong ways to growing up and then carry those.

Carl Zeiset:

I had no basis, um. So I went and toured a lot of different shops when I was going to build my shop. You know, if I would, if I would have built in a shop, I would probably build that way, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but you can. You tend to head towards what you know why. I didn't know anything. So I toured shops and that was, that was actually a benefit.

Shed Geek:

What was? That's a great, uh, it's just a great sound bite you, you. You begin touring these shops because you were looking for resources, Correct, Um and you found them to be valuable. What else did you find to be valuable and helpful, like sort of, on your journey? Now I'm a preface that by saying you, you primarily built. Do you do any sales?

Carl Zeiset:

Yes, I'm a dealer also.

Shed Geek:

Okay, so like what are some of the things that kind of helped you? What are resources that just on your journey there.

Carl Zeiset:

Um, sales. Of course Cumberland was a really a ready, an established business of sales. They pretty much took on on that. But what I found when I was going to build my shop, there is no model for a shop out there. I mean, there is a hundred different ways to set up a shop. So that was primarily why I toured other business. The sales was kind of taken care of by Cumberland. You know, they had the resources. They already had several hundred dealers out there. So, that wasn't really a factor.

Shed Geek:

So, so interesting that you said, like the, the, the shop model is so sort of fragmented. What are the things that you found helpful, that you said, hey, we want to incorporate that into into what we're going to do.

Carl Zeiset:

Um, there was a lot of different shops that I went to and I picked them up and picked them apart, you know. So I didn't just get a model from any particular shop. For instance, I toured an old Hickory shop in Wisconsin and they had a really nice setup but they had metal on all the interior and it was just terrible loud. So you know, from that I picked up I don't want to build like that and it was just a lots of little things from a lot of different shops.

Shed Geek:

Yeah.

Carl Zeiset:

I'm not saying we have the perfect model, but it was definitely helped me down the road to go towards the shops before we built.

Shed Geek:

Yeah. Have you had any surprises that come along that you you didn't expect? Oh, yeah, yeah.

Carl Zeiset:

Yeah, definitely.

Shed Geek:

What are? What are some of the things that surprised you the most?

Carl Zeiset:

Probably one of them was the crane. Um, I was in the Hickory shop in Mayfield, Kentucky. We toured that shop and they had the pole crane. I went to several other shops and they said, well, if you have enough people, don't even mess with them, especially in the size buildings you're doing. You're not doing anything real big. That was one thing. Um, I probably didn't have any just real huge shockers as far as things we would have done different. Um, one of the surprises I guess was the difference in builders is trying to set up your, how to set up the bay. Um for a particular builder. It's amazing how different some people are in their process, their way of going about thing.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, yeah, um, do you have like several bays?

Carl Zeiset:

I do yeah.

Shed Geek:

So, and then you could hire those crews.

Carl Zeiset:

Um, it's just one, one person per bay. Uh, and then we have a roofing bay.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, yeah, uh, everybody's going to have their own system. Uh, and and and trying to like, uh, mechanize that so that they know where their stuff is. Uh, we're having their jigs created already. Uh, reachable and the lumber in a in an area that I worked for a large company and they, they would take like this Uh, it was a Japanese approach called Kizan, and the whole idea was to minimize steps and in a production setting.

Shed Geek:

It was to try and like, create, like the minimum amount of steps, the minimum amount of effort, the maximum amount of potential to come out of that.

Carl Zeiset:

Uh.

Shed Geek:

Automation is like a conversation that kind of gets tossed around in the shed industry for manufacturing purposes. Do you see like, do you do any of that? Do you see any of that being like coming online soon or?

Carl Zeiset:

Um, I do, Um the downside to going to like a factory base, um, when you maybe you're referring to like a family line building, yeah, um, we don't, because I'm a percentage, I pay on percentage and my builder's kind of come and go as they please. So you know, as long as they're keeping up with production, they don't have to be on there. You know, if you switch the factory model it's not quite as worker friendly, as kind of what I see. You know, maybe more efficient, but the workers like this model better, I think.

Shed Geek:

What are some of the things? That's kind of surprised you Like? You were in concrete and you were like, I don't know, we're kind of happy here. Has the transition been good to Sheds?

Carl Zeiset:

It has, sales for me aren't really top. I'm really in a rural setting. My shop is in a gravel road, I don't have real good road frontage. I do have somebody that does marketplace for me, which has been a huge help because because of my location and I don't know that I've really had any surprises in sales it was. I didn't know what to expect, you know, and we're doing okay Sales this year. I've stayed right in with last year. It's not softened up at all. I have a pretty steady word of mouth thing going.

Shed Geek:

Why do you think like the? You were talking about the marketplace versus the rural brick-and-mortar setting. Why do you feel like that reaches people or helps? Is it just because of the way people choose to shop now?

Carl Zeiset:

Absolutely. That's where people are. I really believe if you don't have a resource for marketplace, you're missing a huge resource, especially in our area. There might be other platforms that work, but I had tried several others in it. It just never. There's nothing like marketplace.

Shed Geek:

It's I use this term quite often to digital storefront. I mean you're trying to use that to reach as many people as you possibly can.

Shed Geek:

Absolutely Because that's the way shoppers are choosing to to shop nowadays. It's really it's interesting as we find ourselves sort of at a crossroads. It feels like sometimes in the shed industry, where you know good sales, people who can set at a brick-and-mortar location and still connect with customers are very valuable and needed, yet at the same time, some tech-minded people who can go out and get in front of more potential customers.

Carl Zeiset:

Right. We have some locations that are in excellent location, acrossroads, huge traffic areas, and one of them doesn't do any, doesn't have a computer for marketplace they do know it's just drive-in. And we have another one that is off the main road. They're kind in the center of town, not very good visibility, and she sells a ton of buildings and from her house on on Facebook marketplace. Yeah that is strictly where she sells her building.

Shed Geek:

Amazing, right, like the difference, that kind of like the I'm telling you that crossroads. It feels very real. What do you feel like is coming in the shed industry in the four years now that you've been doing? What do you feel like? Is there like a lot of competition in your area? Do you feel like you can collaborate with those people, even though they're competitors? Like how can you work with them? Is all that stuff something that you desire?

Carl Zeiset:

I don't know. I do know quite a few of our competitors and in our area sheds aren't as huge as they are in some that the market is fairly open, so it's not cutthroat in our area. I think there's plenty of room and we're not out to beat anybody down. I love it.

Shed Geek:

I just met you and I don't know how much I appreciate that comment that you just made. What brings you here? Today we're at the Midwest barbecue 2023 event with Cliff Knapp and Howie and the rest of the gang everybody here but what brings you? What makes you say I'm gonna get my vehicle drive over there and see what this is about?

Carl Zeiset:

Well, when we started four years ago, my brother-in-law was driving for me and we needed to go to Georgia to pick up a trailer and we ended up going to Lancaster County, pennsylvania, to the Shed Hauler's bash and that really got me going. I saw the camaraderie with among the Shed Haulers Sam Beiler, jason Kaufman have really done a lot in the Shed Hauling industry and I would like to see builders collaborate like that, but I don't think you will, because it's a little more maybe competition-based but I do see a lot of good in talking shop.

Carl Zeiset:

Yeah, that's why.

Shed Geek:

For sure. It seems like more representation is always a thought whenever it comes to if it's building and it's making a better industry, if networking and coming together can happen. I think a lot of that happens at the Shed Expo. You know. I think is a good example of people coming together. I know there's a large vendor model there and things like that, but I feel like a lot of people come together at events like that and kind of talk about Shed Building and what they're seeing and stuff like that. But you think like an event like this would would go well for builders to come together.

Carl Zeiset:

I think it would, but I don't see it ever being to the place that the that the haulers are, because a lot of those I would say the greater percentage of Shed Haulers are independence. You know they have their own business. They really don't have somebody to answer to besides themselves for what they say. You know, yeah, in the building industry there's a lot more secrets out there. There's more things you just don't talk about. You know, in a crowd no, that's a good point.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, I wonder who or how something like that could happen, because it seems like it would just be awesome, maybe not to give away your trade secrets, but really to just build each other up as an industry. You know, in general, and I agree with you, there are a lot of independent haulers. What approach have you guys taken, sort of a vertical integration approach?

Carl Zeiset:

Well, it's funny you ask because I just bought a truck two weeks ago. I'm the Shed owner and I hired a driver. I'm gonna be putting my own rig on the road. We had two independent guys hauling for us and the one guy's quitting here September the 10th and I'm gonna be putting my own truck on the road, so I guess I can be an official here now.

Shed Geek:

It sounds like. It sounds like vertical integrations on the map in many ways. So, yeah, where do you think the industry's going? Do you feel like it's going in a positive direction? You're excited that you're in it.

Carl Zeiset:

Yeah, I am. Covid has caused a ripple, you know, in 2021. There was a lot of people jumped in. So, especially in our area, there has been probably three shops went up in the last three years and a lot of that is because of the huge, the fake raising in production and people said, hey, this is a good industry and they jumped in. So I think that ripple effect is gonna. It's gonna ripple for a little bit. You know, a year and a half ago or two years ago, equipment was rare, it's hard to find and I'm noticing a lot more shed equipment on the market.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, it's a little bit more available now and, and probably labor has been a little bit different, it's been affected. I know it seemed like we saw just a ton of you know inventory leaves, so people were trying to ramp up their production, but then, as things started to come back down to normal, you have a surplus of people and building a lot of inventory and now they're trying to find ways to get that off the shelf, which is where you know the sale cycle is coming back into play now, because before you couldn't try to help people sell more sheds, they already had so many sold that they couldn't build enough.

Carl Zeiset:

That's right and a lot of that was false. You know, there was a lot of, a lot of money getting thrown out there. The government was throwing huge amounts of money and people had money to spend and that pendulum is gonna swing for a while. You know, lp was up against in production a lot of those. You know OSB for a while we couldn't get it was up at 50 bucks a sheet and that was. That was all false. Eventually that's all caused by people going into the industry and not all of those people are gonna find a home, you know, or a long-term home. So that's what I mean by the pendulum. That pendulum is gonna swing for a while, I believe.

Shed Geek:

So what is the philosophy for Cumberland? It's Cumberland right.

Shed Geek:

Correct. What is sort of the philosophy for you guys? What approach are you taking at manufacturing moving forward over the next couple of years?

Carl Zeiset:

Well, for one thing, you have to meet demand and production, and that's what we tried to do, although COVID made that really hard. So we are trying to take a pretty slow approach. You know, build the company not over 25%. You got to be really careful with that because you can overbuild. You know there's a lot of people who have expanded their shops in the last three years that I believe are starting to regret it. Interest is high and it's really hard to find production to fill your needs for the size facility. So we tried to maybe tone down our rate a little bit, keep it to what it was prior to COVID.

Shed Geek:

Do you find that collaborating with other salespeople is helpful?

Carl Zeiset:

Oh, absolutely.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, have you found it like possible? Oh?

Carl Zeiset:

yeah, maybe not outside our industry as much but, like I say, through the Cumberland there's a ton of resources available for that, so that has been very helpful for me to be with a bigger company.

Shed Geek:

I did a speaking event recently where I was asked to speak on teamwork at a company picnic, and the one thing that I would take away from it is just how essential teamwork is, whenever you have a company like Cumberland or any other company, for the dealers to get together and not only network in the industry, but network together. You can learn so much more by being open to finding out from others. What have you seen along the way that helps? I've often said that shed sellers are on an island by theirself a lot of times and sales, unlike hauling and building, can be a very emotional process.

Carl Zeiset:

It can.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, you can. You can lose a buyer and you can think, man, I did everything wrong. But with the shed, you know from A to Z. You know what it's supposed to look like when it's finished. That's right. What approach do you guys take? What sort of like your? If a customer of yours was listening, what would you want them to know from your perspective at Cumberland?

Shed Geek:

As far as the building, yeah, the building, the quality, the process, like if you're, if you're thinking about sales and customers walking up, what do you hope that they take away from that transaction?

Carl Zeiset:

For one thing is my personality. You know your approach. What they think of as you as a person is huge. They have to like you First of all. They have to like you. There's a lot of little things that go into that your dress, your manner, your your office. You know. As far as the building, I would say one of the things for sales Number one is never bash your competition. Don't even mention your competition. People will respect you for that. And the other thing is, if you name a competitor, guess where they're going when they walk out your door if they didn't buy shed. So be civil, be polite and, like I say, make. Make them like you.

Shed Geek:

You think it's a long term career move for you. I mean to continue to expand into what it sounds like vertical integration owning your own sales law, building your own buildings I mean having your own trailer and truck seems like it's a strong industry to be continuing to venture into.

Carl Zeiset:

Cumberland has been very good. They have treated me very well. I'm very glad to be a part of them and yeah, absolutely it's long term. I own the shop. You know they pay percentage for me to build for them. So obviously I have a lot invested. I have the sales lot and now I'm, the truck is mine, I'm hiring a driver for it. So yeah, you know, with all those moves, it has to be a long term investment.

Shed Geek:

Sounds like just a really good company to work for.

Carl Zeiset:

They are.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, and to work with and to find that, while you're already satisfied what you were doing, Well, there wasn't a risk.

Carl Zeiset:

you know I'm not buying any material. I have no risk in that. None of the buildings are mine, None of the materials in mine, the shop. They told me the percentage that I'm going to get paid. They told me this, basically the size of the square foot I need, and they've done very well in keeping my shop moving. So that is all things you can pencil, you know. So a big factor of going with Cumberland was I can make it a decent percentage and I don't have the risk.

Shed Geek:

What are some things that you wish you'd have known two or three years ago. Jumping into that, you can attribute now three, well, maybe three, four years in, and be like man. I wish I would have, really wish I'd have known this, because I would have went a different direction or would have doubled down on what I already did.

Carl Zeiset:

You know that's. I'm not sure how to answer that, because we actually got pretty fortunate on the size shop and our setup. I would have to think on that because it's working pretty well yeah.

Shed Geek:

Yeah.

Carl Zeiset:

I think that's a huge mistake, I guess, and that's a good thing.

Shed Geek:

No, that's, that's really good. Where do you feel like the industry itself is going?

Carl Zeiset:

I think it's going to tone down. Like I say, that ripple effect from COVID is going to some people that jumped in aren't going to be able to hold on. Interest rates have gone up. Production is definitely down from what it was. I guess I'm going to say watch your basis, you know, because it's there's going to be a ripple effect for a while.

Shed Geek:

I have been doing something different to generate conversation recently and I know that mean you just met. So it's probably going to be a bit challenging because normally I know the people that interview. Like if I don't know them very well. I know them at least a little bit, and we just got a chance to talk here today. So I'm going to give you a chance to turn the microphone around which is what I've been doing a lot with different interviews here lately and ask me questions. So you're sort of new to the industry but you're sort of new to knowing about Shed Geek and what we do here. But I'll allow you to take the microphone and ask me questions. We've started out, plenty of time here left and I want to make sure and offer valuable, good information. So ask whatever question you've got and then we'll see what conversation it exists or that comes out of that.

Carl Zeiset:

Sure. So how did Shed Geek start? Where was your beginning?

Shed Geek:

So initially began in purchasing. So I started with a larger organization and I was doing purchasing, eventually went into sales, even got a truck and trailer and thought about building and then ended up in sales sales management, which led sort of to RTO work and I just kind of realized that like it's kind of hard knocking on doors because it's so competitive to knock on doors and always, you know, try to get people to sign up that you're trying to build, so the customer acquisition times a lot longer. Customer comes into buy a shed. You kind of know this is what they want. Now If you're trying to sell them on like RTO services, you got to build relationship over years.

Carl Zeiset:

So you're talking investments, investors? Sure, yeah, I can see that.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, For me, I eventually I got to the point to where I was. Like you know, the space I really like is just meeting and greeting and talking to these people and getting to getting to interview them. I genuinely like enjoy that.

Carl Zeiset:

So what is your approach as far as building trust? I mean that you really have to get people involved with you in order for people to trust you. Yeah.

Shed Geek:

Well, I think that people have to know your motives. For instance, since starting the podcast, we've started a launch to marketing campaign. There's other things in the works. There's just you know how can I collaborate with people in the industry? If you collaborate with one company, does it make the other company mad? You kind of have to walk on eggshells.

Shed Geek:

You know what I mean, so like sometimes you have to kind of be like well, you know, it's not a matter of like question of my loyalty, it's about how do you, you know, leverage your opportunities to make a living Right. So I try to be very transparent first and foremost. I believe that it that this is why people ask me questions on the podcast, because I'm like you know, I live very publicly. So I do like a, you know, a trust check. You know what I mean. If what I'm saying behind the scenes doesn't, in other words, if my audio doesn't match my video and what people are seeing and hearing are two different things, then I got a problem.

Shed Geek:

But as long as I build that long-term customer acquisition trust and say, hey, if we do business in three, four years or whatever, so yeah, I just I guess the best way I know how to answer that question is just kind of live transparent. I mean, we put everything on Facebook. We're doing pretty much, you know. I can tell you where I was this week. We were down at, you know, kevin connections in Kentucky doing a talk with their company. Next thing, you know, we're doing a podcast with Randy on Friday came here to Cliff's place on Saturday. On Wednesday I was supposed to be down in Glasgow and that got canceled. But we're rescheduling that and two weeks will be at the expo. So like I just live very like transparent and public.

Carl Zeiset:

And that's. That's kind of funny. You mentioned that because you were asking me about sales and that's important. You know people can pick up in a heartbeat if you're real or not. Sure, you know that's like to say everybody's got a built in meter and and they can tell and sometimes you get fooled.

Shed Geek:

Don't get me wrong, but the really the hardest question you know. For me, carl, is like you know, there's people that you'll never do business with it, or your friends.

Carl Zeiset:

Oh, absolutely.

Shed Geek:

That you're just going to like and trust, and there's genuinely people in this industry that I think a lot of and probably would never work together and if it comes together, to be you know God's timing or whatever that looks like. But so I really think that that, just doing that, I think I think people want. They want people to support. I think people by nature are generally good and they want to see people do well.

Carl Zeiset:

Oh absolutely.

Shed Geek:

I think the only time it becomes conflict is if that person's doing well. It's costing them something.

Shed Geek:

Right, yeah, if all of a sudden you're doing well, because it's hurting me, and that's whenever people get defensive and things like that. Right, and the conversation for you know, this year, from everybody I'm talking to his collaboration is key. How do we collaborate more to be better people, to serve our customers better, to serve the industry better? You know, where is our competition? The thing that I spoke on whenever I was in Kentucky I'll just go ahead and give you my keynotes here from where I was talking was, you know, I was in Kentucky in particular, so I pointed out that the richest person in Kentucky is actually there north of Lexington and they're they're in the storage business.

Shed Geek:

It was a yeah it was a, it was an air to public storage, you know, and, and public storage is one of the largest, if not the largest, you know self storage facilities across the nation. They have like I think it was like 2,500 locations or something like that.

Shed Geek:

And I. My keynote to them was to talk to them really about how self storage is. Even though it's not really our competition, it's the closest thing we have to it, because what you're trying to do is take that you know 10 by 10 storage unit and and put it up on a cardinal mule, load it on a trailer and bring it to their backyard.

Shed Geek:

So, they don't. They don't have to go downtown to get all their stuff, right when, in which they're renting, and they never have a path to ownership, so they can't buy or you know they can't rent to own that space, sure. So I mean, like we're offering those opportunities. So you know, we talked about that, we talked about networking or teamwork, and I kind of talked about how communication, I think, is the key to that.

Shed Geek:

So you have dealers that you can learn and grow from, rather than being worried that they take a sale away from you.

Carl Zeiset:

Well, there's some of that too. Yeah, you know, a lot of my information comes from the reps. Yeah, that know the dealers. Um, you got to be careful. You know what questions you ask, because even among a company there can be competition in dealers you know, and the last thing you want to do is hurt that relationship. So it's like you said, it can be walking on eggshells. You know, you have to be careful. Um.

Shed Geek:

I think I do a lot of that and the main way that I do it is uh transparency, like I'm actually probably a lot more shy than people realize. I grew up a lot more uh shyer than than than people would know to see me in this, in this getup outfit you would.

Shed Geek:

you would not think that would be the case, uh, but you know it, it uh, I really was, and uh for for me, um yeah, I, I just I got to the point to where I was like you know what I'm going to. Throw caution to the wind. Talk to people, build network. It's one of the things that, whenever I first started selling, I learned a lot about my competition. I didn't bash them, but I learned a lot about them Cause I wanted to know what was possible.

Carl Zeiset:

Absolutely.

Carl Zeiset:

So where has this led you? As far as throwing caution to the wind.

Shed Geek:

It's always tricky. There's no joke I like to tell sometimes about the young boy and the mule and the old man. I'm not going to tell a joke, but I would encourage anybody to go Google it. Basically, I'll give you, the moral of that is you can't make everyone happy because I'm attempting to always be everybody's friend or attempting to try to do business. It can rub people the wrong way if you're working over here in this aspect, but then these guys feel like they're slighted because of that. So, throwing caution to the wind, you have to be careful. I think that just you know. For me it's been transparency.

Carl Zeiset:

Yeah, and you know it's funny. You mentioned that because there is a time to stand to, you know when you say about everybody being your friend. There's definitely a time to hold your ground and through that you can't anger people. But usually that anger is short-lived, you know, when people realize why you took the stand that you did. But yeah, there is a time when you should hold your ground.

Shed Geek:

I've always heard people talk about, you know, righteous anger. You know being angry and not sinning. Oh right, you know. So, yeah, for me it's just usually, yeah, I don't get angry. But you know, try to explain myself the best that I can and I think, as a dealer trying to do that, you know, upscale that through like their networking process and internalized inside of their company dealers who are trying to like climb the ladder and things like that. I think you do that by not putting down your fellow people.

Shed Geek:

Right, exactly, you know learning from them, trying to be the bigger person, walk away from the things that cause you grief and conflict and things like that. So I try to do my best to do those things, but I fail, like everybody else.

Carl Zeiset:

Oh yeah, that's part of being human.

Shed Geek:

Yeah.

Carl Zeiset:

And you know when you can talk about those failures. That's what makes people realize you're human. Yeah, not to be afraid to put yourself down when it's necessary, heck, yes.

Shed Geek:

The shed industry has been not just a. I'm glad we're having this conversation so I would never know how to bring it up otherwise. The shed industry has been more than me talking about marketing and sales and online sales and building and manufacturing and hauling all that stuff and going to all these events. It's been sort of a source of ministry for me and for anybody who feels offended by me saying that I apologize, but at the same time I don't. It has really been. I've gotten to know some of the greatest people I've ever met in my life. I believe that Me and my wife get to travel together and that's just stellar, you know, like the fact that me and her can map out our routes and go out and talk to people and meet just some of the best people spend time with them.

Shed Geek:

It's kind of a I mean it sounds cheesy, but sort of a dream come true kind of thing you know to get to go out and just meet all these different people. God has put really some of the most unique situations in our path, you know, connecting with the Amish community. I mean to me, you know, it's just as unusual, not growing up in the Anabaptist community, to be able to be in that world and be, I guess, sort of accepted.

Carl Zeiset:

Well, that's, that's funny. You mentioned that because I've noticed the shed industry. If you're going to know anything about the industry, you're going to learn to know the Baptist people, because that is the basis.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, so so it's. It's you know, when you get to, to go into someone's home and meet their family and eat them and build community, finding out some of the things that are unfair characteristics that the world places on that community, and then getting to know them and being like it's nothing of the sorts.

Carl Zeiset:

That can go two ways Sure. I think, that goes both ways there, because I think you know I grew up in a Mennonite family. I'm Mennonite and sometimes I think there is unrealistic I'm not sure what word to use, but they're not. They're. Sometimes they don't include somebody that's not their own as quick.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, I understand.

Carl Zeiset:

That's why I'm saying that.

Shed Geek:

That's it Well. That's why it makes me feel like so humbled whenever I do feel that inclusion. You know I might not be included at the level that you might see, but you know it still feels good to be because somebody's afraid I'm going to ask questions that are going to be offensive, you know it could happen, but I would.

Carl Zeiset:

I would hope and I would pray to God that you don't feel that nobody in the Baptist community would make you feel excluded. You know, I hope that doesn't happen, yeah.

Shed Geek:

No, for the most part everybody's been really kind and I think it's just growing up on this opposite side of the world and then, like God, given me this really cool opportunity. We have 500. Call ends from the, the Amish community and I said the Amish, that's technically, maybe I should say the Anabaptist community or whatever but primitive communities that don't listen to the podcast on Google or get our newsletter or Buzzsprout or YouTube or stuff like that. Where we have they call, they call in and they can save their place on the landline. We have about 500 a week.

Carl Zeiset:

Really, and that's funny because I didn't even know about that.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, well, it's through. It's through a service that has really been really awesome for me to partner with and be able to provide that, and there are other podcasts that are, you know, also go out through that service. So to actually even be a voice in that community, I feel like there's a responsibility for me to do the right things and I'm always trying to make sure that I'm not sure if we're even how much sheds now.

Carl Zeiset:

Well, welcome to being a public figure.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, it's been. It takes me a little bit of time to get used to it. If I'm being honest with you, like I said, I'm surprisingly more shy than what people would know and and was even growing up. So in an attempt to try and like well, even to try to work with those folks, right you know there's a barrier there.

Shed Geek:

When we created our marketing company, we done it because I'm not saying that there are companies out there you can't trust. There's a lot of good companies that work in marketing in this industry that you can trust. But the one thing we noticed is a lot of builders wanted to be builders and they don't want to be drug into the sales world and marketing world and all this stuff. So it was like, well, maybe we can create a structure of trust where they might be willing to work with us and it's a win-win situation for us all. So that was you know. So now I'm trying to navigate at the eggshells, as we talked about, of how do I build trust with you and do business with you when our convictions in some cases are so different.

Carl Zeiset:

You know. It's funny you mentioned that, because what is a real conviction? You know, when you have convictions in dress. That's not what you base your trust on somebody off of. You know, when you say about being transparent, when I know somebody's transparent and they're letting me see the real them, as far as where you were born or what community or doesn't matter to me. You know, when I can sense somebody is real, it doesn't matter what their background or or their maybe I should say their materialistic convictions don't really matter.

Shed Geek:

Well, there's, I mean there's this thing that keeps coming up. You know, to me I've heard a few people say this now in the industry. They say that's just business, that's just business, or that's just the way business is done. And I struggle, carl, with separating business from my relationship. You know, like a lot of like I. Just for me it's hard, like life is just life. I don't have business life, church life, work life, family life.

Shed Geek:

I just have life, yeah, and that's why, whenever people say, well, you know you shouldn't pray on the podcast or you shouldn't bring in politics or religion, I'm like politics or religion are part of my world too. Right, you know what I mean.

Carl Zeiset:

So like it affects one, affects the other. It's a full circle for sure.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, I can't. I can't put Shannon Christian over here in this box. But then also Shannon, I'm a shed guy over here in this box.

Carl Zeiset:

So for me.

Shed Geek:

I really struggle with the idea of separating my faith from my work. It has to be present in it, absolutely you know so, and but then I don't want that to be salesy too. I don't want it to be like oh, work with me because I love Jesus. Right, like I feel like that's very cheap.

Carl Zeiset:

It's a prop yeah.

Shed Geek:

So like that's why I say, like you're always trying to perfect the process, to kind of be like well, how do I build maximum amount of trust, give myself maximum amount of effort and opportunities but then also not not be offensive? So I don't know that we're talking about sheds here, but this has been a perfect episode for my mental health. I know that.

Shed Geek:

No, I love it and I'm a drifting conversation list I I need somebody to get me back to the basis because I can go off and left field pretty quick, but I enjoy it If you are shed hauling, if you're selling sheds and you're sitting in it in an office, and if you're manufacturing or swinging hammers or you know, whatever it is that you're doing like, my thought is to always try to provide something that's educational and entertaining. So it's not always about us talking about the strict nuance of the shed industry, but sometimes it's just that, you know, talking about our faith, talking about life, talking about family.

Carl Zeiset:

And some of the greatest points or models in my life can be used to every aspect you know and when? When you talk about faith, you talk about things that can be integrated into shed building. Absolutely, yeah.

Shed Geek:

Well, same as shed sales. I can't help but like name 10 people off the top of my head that talk about how their shed sales lot has become somewhat of a ministry whenever people show up to their lot. They have an opportunity to witness and, and even if they don't get into the depths of the gospel, they can. They can be somebody's smile Absolutely, when they show up on the lot.

Carl Zeiset:

Absolutely, you know and that's kind of what I was referring to when I said be real, you know, don't be afraid to talk to the customer customer about what they want to talk about. You would be amazed at some of the conversations that have happened in my office that had nothing to do with shed sales and the people ended up buying a shed because of that conversation. Yeah, People know when you're real and people know when you care about them, not just about selling them a shed man. That's, that's great, that's a.

Shed Geek:

that's the best sound bite that I think I've gotten in the last couple of shells, and I know you didn't put that out there for that, but I did not. I just appreciate that Me and you haven't got to talk very much even before we sit down here today.

Shed Geek:

So to have this kind of discussion is kind of a that's, that's kind of cool and and you know, I've been thinking about, you know, the different people that I have on the show and, uh, you know, even talking about the advertising, you know, uh, that's the way in which we make our living. We're, we're, we're looking at trying to do some different things. Uh, and I guess I'll just do a sound bite for myself here, if you don't mind, I'll do a plug.

Shed Geek:

But one of the things that the hosting site has opened up is the ability to like I'll never charge it, like I'll never charge for the show. The show's free. I always try to bring education, entertainment. It doesn't cost anything. But there are ways that, um, that you can support the shed geek podcast If you so choose to it. You feel like you get value through your day or through your week, entertainment wise. There's monetary options where you can give through our hosting site and I've really been struggling with bringing that out to do that. But then here I am talking to Cliff today and you know it ain't much, but I threw some money in the pot to be a sponsor and I told him I want to do it again next year, Like if people trust me with that and they get education or entertainment through their day and enjoyment through it.

Shed Geek:

you know, if they give, we want to be able to give back. Turn it into give back to things like here today, things like Martin hostetlers down in, you know, Montezuma, Georgia, and, and, uh, Mervid Vargas out in Texas and Travis parks out in Oklahoma and you know what I mean.

Shed Geek:

Like we want to give back uh to the community that's also given to you. So maybe watch for some of that stuff. Um, I'll try to quit. I'll try to quit uh, carl, apologizing for making money. No, don't you know and uh, you know, as long as we do the right things with it and trust that that God's being glorified and exalted, through the process, then, um, and not the people?

Shed Geek:

then, yeah, there's, there's lots of opportunity in the shed industry, yet I don't think we'll stop talking about, uh, politics or religion, or whatever it is.

Carl Zeiset:

You know and it's funny you mentioned that about, about, um, the shed industry being a ministry, um, and and I I throw this out to all sales people your first call is to be a minister, and if you sell a shed through being a minister, good for you, so that's a one.

Shed Geek:

Well, I didn't know what to expect. When we sit down here today, normally I take a little bit of time and do some more questions. This went exactly as I think God would have planned for it to be, and I hope somebody who's driving around today hauling the shed or selling the shed or building a shed got some entertainment through listening to a couple of guys talk. Sure, and, uh, I know I certainly appreciated it. So, um, yeah, carl, uh, if people want to know more about you, your company, how would they get ahold of you? If they, you know, I don't know if you guys are expanding, if you're looking to do more or whatever, but if they just, you know, liked you and want to know you, how do they find you?

Carl Zeiset:

Um well, I'm not on any social platforms.

Shed Geek:

Um email is a great way. Lucky, lucky, lucky yeah.

Carl Zeiset:

My um. My email is Carl Z at NEMRnet. Um, feel free to email me. Um, I do have a website out there. Um, it's just through my dealership, which is Timberline portable buildings. Um, you can contact me through that. That's got my information on it. It's got my address, got my phone number. So check it out.

Shed Geek:

What did you get most out of coming over here today and coming to this like shed hauler event that they put together? What's something that you took away for today?

Carl Zeiset:

Well, um, for one thing, I mentioned the comatary. Um, I really enjoyed talking shop with people and I'm a people person. I love meeting people, new people, and how we had mentioned something about um, the telegram. There's a lot of people that I know through telegram, but on a social platform you don't get to know people. You have to come and you have to make eye contact, and that's one of the main reasons that I come here is to meet friends that I, I know our friends, but I don't know till I see them.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, Uh, I hope you're blessed by it. I know we had a excellent day. Like I said, we're fans of prayer and things like that. Here on the podcast We'll go ahead and wrap it up, but, um, anything else you want to share or anything else. Final thoughts.

Carl Zeiset:

There is one thing when I started the construction business um, that was back in 2010. I bought some tools off of a friend of mine that was going out of the business and he said, carl, one thing I want to tell you when you start. He said, don't think of the fellow laborers in the construction business competition. He said you're not going to make everybody in Northeast Missouri happy. Um, work with them, don't work against them. Work with them. They're all your helpers, they're all helping you in the, in the industry, and I'd like to see the same thing in the shed industry. I think it's great to realize that you're helping each other. You're not out to beat anybody, you're, you're out to help.

Shed Geek:

And what a great final thought. If you don't care, I'm going to just kind of say a prayer to close us out here.

Carl Zeiset:

That would be great Appreciate you.

Shed Geek:

Just a pleasure to meet you Like.

Carl Zeiset:

Good to meet you, shea, shea to you being on the show.

Shed Geek:

Uh, I have a heavenly father. Thank you for this day, thank you for the opportunity for this moment of fellowship. Sit down and talk and just have clarity and real, honest conversation. Um, god, that's not just, uh, you know, agenda driven. That just sort of has you at the focus of remembering the gifts that you give us to do the things that we do and to keep you, uh, a sovereign God first and all that you do and us were mindful of our dependence on you and the opportunities you give us through things like the industry and uh, to help us be better communicators, uh, with each other.

Shed Geek:

Stewards of your word, just stewards of the time that you give us here to lift our brothers and sisters up and and be real in those moments and not just use them as opportunities for business. Um, thank you for Cliff and how we've put this on today and all the folks traveled out. Like Carl, I pray that you'd give them, uh, safe travels on their way homes and just uh, or just shine on their business, uh, and the industry's business and uh, help us to keep you at the forefront of all that we do. In Jesus name, amen, carl, appreciate it so much man.

Carl Zeiset:

Hey, you're welcome. It's a lot of fun, my pleasure.