Shed Geek Podcast

The Journey from Cripple Creek Cabins to Westwood: A Rebranding Story

• Shed Geek Podcast • Season 3 • Episode 76

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Curious about what it takes to grow a successful business whilst maintaining a strong community focus? In our latest episode, we promise to give you an inside look into the shed industry, as we chat with Arlan Riehl and Mike Yoder from Westwood Sheds & Cabins. They offer a heartening recount of their journey, from the rebranding process from Liberty to Westwood, to the unique ownership opportunities they've created for their team. Be inspired by their faith-driven approach to business,  and gain an understanding of their annual buy-sell period.

Let’s talk business branding. Arlan and Mike share a unique perspective on the significance of community and identity when it comes to business growth. Hear their process of rebranding Cripple Creek Cabins to Westwood Cabins. You'll also gain an appreciation for the importance they place on relationships in the workplace, and how these bonds have shaped their company.

Lastly, prepare to be intrigued by the 'Buffalo culture' - a fascinating code of conduct that guides Arlan and Mike's business decisions. Learn how they use the herd mentality of the Buffalo as a model for handling tough conversations and adversity. We'll also touch on their exciting venture into the tiny home movement, further emphasizing the role of identity in their growth. Join us for a conversation that promises to be a refreshing take on business, community, and personal growth.


Also, find out how the podcast can be heard throughout the plain communities by dialing the number 330-997-3055. If the number is busy, just dial again! 

For more information or to know more about the Shed Geek Podcast visit us at our website.

Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube at the handle @shedgeekpodcast.

To be a guest on the Shed Geek Podcast visit our website and fill out the "Contact Us" form.

To suggest show topics or ask questions you want answered email us at info@shedgeek.com.


This episodes Sponsors:
Studio Sponsor: Union Grove Lumber

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Shed Geek:

Okay, Welcome back to another episode of the shed geek podcast and here in a familiar place with some familiar folks, somebody I keep seeing every time I go somewhere in the shed industry Um, future or past guests, maybe future guests as well too. But a reintroduction, a rebrand, Um, I'll tell you what guys. Just introduce yourself a little bit about who you are, what you do. Yeah.

Arlan Riehl:

Arlan Riehl formerly Liberty sheds. That's what the name was the last time we did the podcast back on here as Westwood and Westwood sheds and cabins.

Shed Geek:

Very nice and we have none other than Mike. Go ahead Mike Yoder.

Mike Yoder:

That's me, and we've had an interesting journey. That was exciting and I'm fun. I'm happy to be here with you again, Shannon.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, Well, it's good. I don't feel like you guys need an introduction, but hey, it's always good to do the formalities. Yeah, we're so. We were joking, we, that's. That's where we should have went when you guys came on, but we couldn't. We couldn't figure out who was going to take the oh no Like. So, yeah, well, a big change since. Uh, well, for for for me and for you guys. Since then, like, things have been different. I, you, were one of the first 10, maybe episodes I don't even remember. So we're like climbing, like knocking on the door of 200 before too long. So it's kind of crazy to think about all the change. This office didn't exist the first time we we showed up down here.

Arlan Riehl:

It was a phone interview, that first one was a phone, yeah, so. Mike and I were around the phone and conference table that's over in that conference room up in the little office up on the hill, okay, and we did that first interview.

Shed Geek:

Well, it was a portable.

Arlan Riehl:

What's the name of the thing? Williams, a modular office, yeah.

Shed Geek:

Okay, construction trailer. So so Liberty now to Westwood, and Westwood's come a long way. Holding down the anchor. For those who who are curious, the shed sales professionals page. You'll see their office on the their website. Um, as far as the logo goes. So that's where we're at, this beautiful, beautiful office. Due west is sort of a it's not a destination location, so it's always nice whenever I show up and see this nice, beautiful office out here in the middle of sort of nowhere.

Mike Yoder:

This office has had a lot of unintended consequences.

Shed Geek:

Okay.

Arlan Riehl:

I've had a lot of unintended consequences.

Shed Geek:

So I, I relate, um, yeah, it's, but it's beautiful. Um, you guys are I don't know. You get around shed folks and you guys are graduating into other areas of business. But you get around shed people and you kind of like know within a few minutes, or spend a little bit of time with them, how serious they take their craft, how much they're trying to better themselves, those around them, um, you guys have a just a top notch um appearance and I think that what's inside is kind of what's reflecting on the outside. Um, I remember talking to you guys early on about your, your faith and community and how that was really important to you. So tell me what, what's? What's the new branding of Westwood? Bring what's sort of, uh, the change from liberty to now. What's, what's the identity?

Mike Yoder:

Our local community is pretty important to Arlan and I both and that was one of the big motivations to buy out our partners in Liberty. That helped us get started. And shout out to Bobby, you know, he came down, he gave us resources and tools and he helped us get a fabulous company gone and we couldn't have done it without him. Um, but as we matured as a company there was stuff that changed on his side and you know, because we don't know the future right, things move and change.

Mike Yoder:

Um, and as we it's been what two years ago, three years ago, that we started the conversation of what would it look like if we would buy out um the out of state partners so we can bring the ownership into Abbeyville County here. Um, though that was one of the big motivations for that and as part of that agreement then that we came to was the rebrand from liberty to Westwood. Um, because you know liberty does exist up in North Carolina and so moving away from that company the rebrand was was a part of that agreement. Um, the other piece that was really meaningful for Arlan and I partnership is really important to us and we wanted to be able to offer ownership opportunities for all of our people in our companies in Westwood sheds and Westwood cabins, and so we've done that with the restructuring, and the new companies that we set up were set up as partnerships and we have provisions made so that our people can actually write us checks and buy shares in the company and share in the ownership and in the direction of the company.

Shed Geek:

Very cool, and I'll have that application back to you just as soon as I can get it completed.

Arlan Riehl:

It's perfect timing. Our annual buy-sell period is open right now. Oh man, it does require full-time employment.

Mike Yoder:

Oh, there's a hiccup, that's where they get you.

Shed Geek:

They say they get you somewhere.

Arlan Riehl:

Um, I think it's beautiful, I think.

Shed Geek:

Um, yeah, definitely. Uh, profit sharing is a motivator, but it's a, it's a buy-in. Uh worked for a large corporate company that had a whole marketing campaign that was based on own it, o W N it, own it, do you? You own it? Um, what does that mean? Like, well, you have ownership when you come to work. How you put your head on when you walk through the door, did you put on the head of an employee or did you put on the head of somebody who's systematically helping grow the industry in every avenue? Or is it just a clock in, clock out? Um, man, that's almost segue into like sort of a top of mind conversation for me that I had even this morning with not separating your ministry, your personal life, your work life. That's a big part of it.

Arlan Riehl:

Yeah, that's.

Shed Geek:

that's the question that I posed for some of you, that's. That's the question that I posed for somebody this morning was like man, how do you not, if you build on relationship, how do you not like? How's it not personal to be in business I hear the term it's just business thrown around quite a bit. I'm like I don't know it never is for me, so it's always. There's always more to it. So by bringing that under one umbrella, it's pretty awesome. So, Arlan, what's what's been your like experience with the change so far?

Arlan Riehl:

It's been really good because you see the value in putting energy and effort into something for long term and for who you are. I think that's what I would sum up short as possible is an identity thing. Like Mike mentioned, bobby gave us a really good start here and it was great working with him. We wouldn't be where we are without that and at some point there's identity that is borrowed or used or put in from somewhere else and you kind of have that even in a family setting. In some ways. Kids are your kids and they are your kids until they're an adult and they're still your kids and you love them. But they are making choices and there's a bit of an identity that can change, and that's what I would sum this up. So there's a bunch of gratitude to Bobby for what he helped us do. Then there's a clear growth into an identity that we've been able to embrace and all of our people have fully embraced, and it is a hat tip to local. That's directly in the name.

Arlan Riehl:

We're obviously not in what a lot of people consider the West. We're in the West from a lot of the world, but here in the US we're not in the West. But Westwood is a direct hat tip to Due West, the town that we live in, town that we work in. Getting here has taken a lot. It was probably a longer road to hoe and a lot more energy and effort than we first would have thought to get it rolled out like we do. But the buying is incredible. The people that we've got are phenomenal and the culture that comes from that, from a full confidence. I don't want to use buying because it's kind of overused, but in an identity is what we have.

Mike Yoder:

And one piece that I missed in the rebrand conversation is the Liberty Sheds is what we started with here back in 2015 with Bobby's help. But the cabin company actually started out under Cripple Creek Cabins. I don't know if you remember that name.

Shed Geek:

Okay, I do.

Mike Yoder:

So when we did this buyout and brought the ownership all of it local here to Abbeyville County, we needed to do the rebrand already because of part of that agreement on the shed side. But we went ahead and rebranded Cripple Creek Cabins to Westwood Cabins to, just for the ability to bring everything under one parent brand.

Shed Geek:

The one thing I hear you guys talking about a lot is the start of what I feel like should be the start of the marketing campaign is with your branding. You guys are mentioning branding a lot and I could be completely wrong on this. It's just my thoughts or opinions or whatever and I think that comes down to probably your traditional mission, vision, values, but sort of like your why I mean everybody's probably seen the Simon Sinek, you know. Find your why at this point and not telling us what you do and how you do it, but why you do it. It's very community driven. Why is community so important to incorporate into your branding?

Arlan Riehl:

I mean a quick answer from that, from me, is because that's what that's the foundation we've laid. It matters to us to be connected, what it is to be a human and what it means to work and what it means to interact and what it means to have relationships. But at the core of it, what we started with here was people, a vision for growth, a vision that we can do something, and then really good people to just go do it.

Mike Yoder:

And our vision statement talks about space for life. That's why we do what we do and that space for life happens on multiple levels. For us personally, we don't want to have to work 80 hours a week to be able to have the life, the lifestyle and the life in the space that we want with our families are people that come and work here. We want them to be able to make good money to enjoy their jobs, so when they go home they have resources and mental space to enjoy their families and enjoy their lives. They're like just creating a space for everybody to enjoy life and be who God created them to be. So that's the internal side of that. And going external, we build space right Storage buildings is space, homes is space, and giving our customers, our clients, that space for them to live their lives and enhance their lives. But yeah, it's just been really neat for us to be able to have an internal and an external focus on our why and what we're trying to do here.

Shed Geek:

I can't help but think like I know there's a lot of podcast I've listened to that have been like all moments.

Shed Geek:

You know you ever have that all moment or that paradigm shift like in your day or in your life that you're like I've been missing it, been looking at that wrong the whole time, and then all of a sudden it just hit you all at once.

Shed Geek:

It's the same as like listening to a you know, like a Bible verse in church and then you've graduated to the level of understanding it at a different level and you're like whoa, how I saw that 10 years ago versus how I see that now speaks to me on this way, different level. I think about the people who wake up today and whether they listen to the podcast or they go to the shed show or whatever they're doing in the shed industry or just a course of their daily life, and they're like just woke up one day and realized I love this, or I just woke up and realized this is not what I'm supposed to be doing, like wow. Like you know, I thought I'd be selling sheds or building sheds or hauling sheds and it was like if somebody would have told me podcast, marketing, space, any of that I would say it's not even in the realm of what.

Shed Geek:

I'm going to do so. I think it's interesting as you, as you chase your why to kind of like find that and just man getting the hammer lane of that and just go and do what God's kind of purpose you to do and it's the funnest thing, oh man it is, it is man.

Mike Yoder:

I was so many times when I'm in my truck, headed up to work in the morning, and I realized that I'm really excited about the one to work this morning, like that's my. It's not always, it's not every day, but it's my normal feeling on the way to work and it's such, a such a gift to be able to have that.

Shed Geek:

Yeah Well, your, your brand sort of speaks that. I love the logo, I love what you guys have done with just sort of all the rebranding. Been talking to Bobby for some time now and we keep saying, yeah, we got to get together and it's just hasn't worked out more. So on my end, uh, just in our travels, because I, if I can, I love to do them in person, like this is so much better than by phone. I don't mind by phone or zoom, but it's always better whenever we can do this.

Arlan Riehl:

Um, you need to tell the logo story though, mike, because that does also crew. It's an example of the identity, of why it is that it's connected and people and relationships.

Shed Geek:

So, for those who haven't seen the logo, we've got it back here. But yeah, definitely, Mike. I'm curious what? Where did this come together?

Mike Yoder:

Where was the so our market positioning statement is built for life and you'll see that in a lot of places. Um so built for life, and that speaks to the quality of our product, it speaks to the longevity of our product and it also speaks to, like, the quality of life, right, um, and it touch, it connects to the idea or why of creating space for life. Um, so this logo, when we needed to do the rebrand, we didn't want to um, we wanted to give the new brand an organic, true beginning.

Mike Yoder:

So, rather than trying to modify what we had previously, we're going to like we said we're going to start from scratch, and so we did that, and we spent hours and days and weeks looking at logo options and color options and looking at names and we finally settled on the name.

Mike Yoder:

And then we had to get to work on the logo.

Mike Yoder:

And at our Christmas banquet we took a big, a big board with top four options printed on it and we told everybody man, this is what we got, four options here, let's pick the one we like best.

Mike Yoder:

And one of the shop guys with one of the Westwood cabins guys actually his wife likes doing design or graphic design stuff and she didn't like any of them, but she didn't tell us, but they went home and what it was?

Mike Yoder:

A week later we get an email from her and she's like hey, I have some logo ideas here that I think are better than what you guys had. And we got to look at them and we're like, whoa, this is like a completely different way to look at it and there's like ideas that we hadn't even explored. And so we threw out everything that we had done up to that point all those hours and days and weeks of looking at logo options and design and colors and we chucked them all and took a few of the options that she gave and it didn't take long at all to settle on this right here, and the reason that it was so powerful for us is that's a live tree on the on one of that, on the right half of the logo, and what signifies life more than a strong, healthy tree right?

Mike Yoder:

And then on the left it's a building, it's physical space, that's what we do here, and it's also a great big, giant number one, so that makes me happy.

Shed Geek:

Oh, I hadn't seen that until you said that that's interesting. Yeah, it is a number one. Well, and it's, you know, the the sort of a double entendre there, right, whether intended or not. I mean the. The building comes from the tree. You know what I mean and how many. It speaks on a couple of it's not a good logo.

Mike Yoder:

It takes a healthy tree to get you quality products to build your house with, and there's a foundation element there.

Shed Geek:

That's what was so impressive about interviewing you guys. The first time was that it was sort of like, I said, the the outward appearance was of the inward product, you know, and I think whatever you can manifest, that, that's like really powerful. It's like lightning in a bottle, if you can capture it, and I think that. I think that if people can see it and respond to it, naturally that's that's kind of what they get it just hits Um yeah, and I was.

Mike Yoder:

I was just amazed that we went on that big, long logo loop and we ended up with a logo that's actually fairly similar to our old Liberty logo.

Shed Geek:

Do you remember any of the four names that were the finalist on the board you came to?

Mike Yoder:

So the name was settled on.

Shed Geek:

The name was the name was settled on. It was the logo that was up for discussion.

Mike Yoder:

Yeah, that's interesting, I think the name I really wanted or like the runner up name when we were picking a company name was Buffalo Sheds and Buffalo Cabins.

Shed Geek:

And that's part of sort of y'all's identity that you still incorporated here, right?

Mike Yoder:

It is the Buffalo culture, so what's?

Shed Geek:

the tell me the we talked a little bit about it the first time, but just sort of reiterate.

Mike Yoder:

It's kind of a code of conduct like you see it up on the wall back there. It's guard guide rails for us in how to handle tough conversations and how to do tough things together and not shy away from adversity or problems but face them head on. So the Buffalo is a herd animal right.

Shed Geek:

So there's community.

Mike Yoder:

There they stick together. Um Buffalo, it's a prairie animal, so there's not much protection from storms for them, and a Buffalo is the only prairie animal that will. When there's a storm coming, they stay together in a herd and they'll actually run right into the storm so that they can get through it, cause if you run with the storm, you'll just hang out in it for forever, right? Yeah, um so, and it is something from C12, which is a peer mentoring business group that we're a part of, and they just have a lot of cool stuff. So some of the highlights from the code of conduct is we find a way, we head into the storm, we enjoy a herd mentality, we protect the herd and we are always moving.

Shed Geek:

Would you say that, like culture is imperative in your business, whether it be shed related or not?

Mike Yoder:

Absolutely. You're going to have a culture, whether you pay attention to it or not.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, it's taking control, sort of, of that culture and and sort of shifting it in a way that all can work together. Yeah, I like it, that's good. Well, you guys are onto some new adventures now. Um, as you can see by the logo behind us, like not just in the shed business anymore, which is the beauty of where the shed industry sort of bleeds into other industries and you begin to try to find where one stops and one starts, and part of that is kind of the, the inevitable. Only way I know how to explain the only words I know how to use is the tiny home community and movement.

Shed Geek:

So yeah, this new adventure Westwood cabins. We had to bring in a whole new person to interview, to talk about this because there's just so much to talk about.

Shed Geek:

And for those that are in the Shed industry that are kind of finding themselves in this metamorphosis, would you like that? That's right, I use big words here at the Shedgeek podcast, but they're in this stage of like hey, we want to build tiny homes. It's been around for 15, 20 years now.

Shed Geek:

Even saw something recently we were joking about that said the tiny home movement. Where did it go? It's dead and it's like look around, I don't know it's still here, if you ask me, but we find ourselves in the Shed space so often, kind of like getting these questions and maybe that's what leads us into it. But you guys do an actual went through the legal certifications whatever you want to call it to become a manufactured or modular housing distributor.

Arlan Riehl:

Is that correct Is that how it works.

Shed Geek:

Kind of take me if I was a newbie and I'm like yeah, I'm trying to get in the Shed industry but I'm trying to decipher storage tiny homes, like why can't I just build a nice building and call it a tiny home and put it out there?

Arlan Riehl:

Yeah, you can. There's people that do it and there's scenarios that it works okay and scenarios that it doesn't.

Mike Yoder:

It varies by states too. So, like some states do whatever you want, there's no inspections, there's no. You have to get a permit for your septic system and then you can build whatever you want. So in those states and Texas is one of them it might be changing, but Texas historically has been one of those states where you can just. You don't necessarily have to have your house inspected. You can just buy something and or build it yourself whatever, and it didn't matter. But in here in South Carolina, where we're at, if you don't have engineered plans and inspections and make the inspector happy, you're not getting a permit to move into that house, you're not getting a permit for power, you're not getting a permit for septic.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, there's politics play into that perhaps, but staying away from from that on a large level, yeah, Texas would be a little bit more cowboy right, A little more freedom, a little more. We do what we want, Don't tell us. But you end up in all these other things in the more more populated areas, especially in the East with HOAs, and I know those exist in Texas too. I'm just saying you're going to come across some coding and stuff that you're going to have to overcome Chase. Is that process difficult? Is it time consuming? Is it rewarding, now that it's done, so that you can sell something with confidence instead of sort of like skirting the the details?

Speaker 4:

Right, it's definitely a process, very big reward at the end. But it it is definitely a lot of work. It was when I came on board it was partially done and it still took me, man, I would say three to six months to tie up loose ends. You know, get another state or two. You know certified for another state or two. But it it definitely is a job. There's a lot of manuals, paperwork, certification, inspections that you get you got to go through. But again, the reward is at the end when you are able to do these homes that you know no building or inspection office is going to question what you're bringing to to their area. Everything is certified, it's approved by the state and you know built to code.

Mike Yoder:

Yeah, and those codes are address specific. So a house down on the coast in Charleston is going to require different specs than a house here in due west and a house up in the mountains in North Carolina are going to require something even different. So having the ability to make sure that you're building to the codes for the address that the home is going to and all necessary parties have signed off on that, so when the home shows up, the local inspector he's going to look at everything and and sign off on it because everything's been done right.

Shed Geek:

Does that make it easier, Mike. Once you've done that, to like incorporate that same process into other states?

Mike Yoder:

Oh, yes, yeah.

Shed Geek:

So you guys are in South Carolina, but you can actually move into other states.

Mike Yoder:

We currently are licensed. We are currently licensed in South Carolina, North Carolina, Georgia and Virginia. It's really easy for me to add new states Now. I just tell Chase hey, chase, we need our license for Alabama because I sold one there.

Speaker 4:

Right, and then I get to work and it's interesting going from one state to the next. Like it's not a nationwide program, every state has their own requirements in their modular program. Some states are rather complicated in the time consuming to get set up and then, like Virginia I think, I filled out a two page form and presto ready to go. It's interesting going from state to state. But, yeah, once you've done it a couple of times, you kind of you have all your manuals and paperwork laid out and makes it pretty simple to incorporate a new state.

Arlan Riehl:

And there's there's multiple levels in that. So you have to be certified as a manufacturer. We have our operations here as far as there has to be an inspection inspection for our plant or manuals around how we build and then each individual plan for each house also has to be inspected and certified, and each of them have to happen in the different states.

Shed Geek:

Do you guys felt, like the certification in the red tape process, like, do you guys see the value in that?

Mike Yoder:

Is that a good?

Shed Geek:

thing, or are you guys kind of?

Mike Yoder:

like eh Well, I mean, that's not even a fair question.

Shed Geek:

OK.

Mike Yoder:

Because we couldn't do it without it.

Shed Geek:

OK.

Mike Yoder:

So without it, our company wouldn't exist.

Shed Geek:

Yeah.

Mike Yoder:

So do we see the value? Yeah, because we couldn't do it without it.

Shed Geek:

So let me ask it another way Do you prefer that that's there because it ensures safety for the folks living in it, or do you feel like the red tape is maybe too micromanaged?

Speaker 4:

That's a great question and again that kind of varies state by state. There are things about South Carolina that are paying. There's things about Georgia that are paying At the end of the day. It is nice because it separates what we're doing from a lot of different things that are out there on the market, so it gives people a piece of mind of they know what they're getting when they buy a home from us, and it shows up.

Shed Geek:

I think you're right there where I'm living or trying to be there's like a trying to segue to their storage shed manufacturers, and then there's what you guys do and there's some hybrid model that we always see in between. That's like we sell tiny homes. Do you sell tiny homes Like right, you know what I mean? I don't know Is that really? And the question is, how many are in between storage and what you guys are doing?

Arlan Riehl:

And so for myself, there's a couple pieces in that. Yeah, sometimes it feels like overreach. Let me do what I want to do on my property and let me alone it doesn't forget about I go live in Texas.

Arlan Riehl:

But, at the same time, there's also a lot to be said for having using things in the way they're meant to be. There's a reason the El Camino kind of didn't do a whole lot. The thing's a car, no, it's a truck. Well, what is that? Well, it's neither. Well, it's both. Whatever, have it all.

Arlan Riehl:

If you want a truck, you're going to get an actual truck. The El Camino is going to be useless. If you want a car to put people in it and go somewhere, it's kind of useless for that too. So there's some spots for those kind of things, and it wasn't just a novelty. It does work. You can make the thing look a little bit different and call it a ranger, and you almost have the same thing. So, is it a truck or not? But thinking about what you want to do and why you want to do it, how long it's going to be here, what are the other pieces connected to it? On the how specific stuff Like that's questions you have to walk through with the customer too. What you want to use it for, does it going to be here for a long time? Do you need to do financing? Is it new property? Do you have existing? Well, septic or power. Those are all questions that can change some of what your answers are, but at the end of the day, do you want a house or not?

Shed Geek:

If somebody would have told me you were going to make all the El Camino drivers today, man, I don't know, I would have not, there ain't that many of them I did not believe that. It's like a mullet, isn't it Like El Camino's business in the front and party in the back?

Arlan Riehl:

I stayed away from whether a Ford is a truck or not.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, but I know what my soundbites going to be now, so no, I do.

Mike Yoder:

That's an easy question to answer.

Shed Geek:

Well I'm. So my RV is a Ford. It's the first Ford I've owned ever, so like I was kind of impressed because I was like, okay, I don't know where I'm going to go with this, otherwise I'm a GM guy and I just lost half of my audience, is your RV one of the expensive ones?

Mike Yoder:

No, it's not See that's why they can use Ford yeah.

Shed Geek:

Wow.

Speaker 4:

All right, wait a minute, where's?

Shed Geek:

like, where's like our? Oh, there we go. Manufacturer's from last, or something. Yeah, oh, there we go. That's right, that's the best of it.

Mike Yoder:

Arlan touched on a couple of things, like back to your question of is it worth the pain. So there's a few things that does, in my opinion, make it worth it. One is a liability issue. So like if we're building these things, people are buying them and living in them and outside of any building program there is no inspections. Like people, living in a house is different than just buying a shed and putting a lawnmower in it and that's a lot of liability to carry as a company to have all of these houses out there that people are living in 24, seven and building it under the modular license that we have and having the third party inspection agency that is signing off on every house that comes out of our factory. A lot of that liability is shifted from us as Westwood cabins to the third party inspection agency because it's their signature that local inspectors are accepting. So that's one piece and the other piece is that financing becomes simple with everything that it takes to operate under a modular builders license.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, these are larger, higher price point products than like a traditional storage shed or even a finished out shed. So, yeah, not rent to owning like these.

Mike Yoder:

So far we've not found anybody willing to do a rent to own on them.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, yeah, well, I would imagine that's, and I don't think it would even make sense. It would you do a rent to own on?

Mike Yoder:

a $100,000 unit. And you'd think that would be crazy.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, it's kind of it would yeah it's obscurity even think about sort of from the price point and then the details of like how far you could go out on a contract and stuff like that. So it's interesting. But you are finding, you know, and that's the thing you are finding a lot of people who are sort of in that hybrid stage of like when you add plumbing that's the one thing I remember specifically when you add plumbing to it, it sort of like changes the complexity of the whole conversation, no matter where you are. All of a sudden, those local inspectors get really involved and interested, and we've actually I've sold one before that had to. They had to go in and pull the panels off of and inspect the plumbing and then rebuild the panels. And we learned a really important lesson.

Shed Geek:

And it was like oh, because before you know, I'm like the Texas guys. You know, america, freedom, we can do what we want. Don't tell us what to do. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh no, there's a lot of rules and we're gonna get trouble in there, so a lot of money, so we want to do it. You want to do it the right way, and sometimes you don't do it the right way on purpose. Sometimes you don't do it because you're not educated, and I think that's why this conversation today is so important is because it shows that the going through the process that's the right way will yield you the better results. To just go ahead, and so you have to, almost kind of like, make a good plan and path forward If it's something you want to do instead of I'll just do it until I get caught.

Arlan Riehl:

Right, and even in that kind of goes into the use of the term tiny home. What is it? What exactly is a tiny home? I'll go back to my previous analogy. There's a thing called trucks. What's a truck? Maybe it's an El Camino, maybe it's an F-150. It's for sure a GMC Denali 3500. It might be a Mac dump truck. They're all called trucks. You kind of have the same thing in the classification with tiny homes. What is it that you're calling a tiny home? It can be, and Chase might need to speak to these, or Mike is. I might get out of whack a little bit, but there's tiny homes licensed and inspected and stuff like that under other that's right.

Mike Yoder:

Yeah, there's nothing that's called a tiny home. That's licensed and inspected.

Arlan Riehl:

What is a park model?

Speaker 4:

That's tiny home that's inspected, built and inspected, but it's under a whole different set of rules. It's an RV, correct.

Arlan Riehl:

So a tiny home can be an RV.

Mike Yoder:

Tiny home can be a modular home, a tiny home can be a 16 foot utility trailer with a structure built on it.

Shed Geek:

Right.

Mike Yoder:

There is no such thing as an official licensed tiny home. That doesn't exist.

Arlan Riehl:

The only thing is a square footage thing, sort of.

Mike Yoder:

I mean the square footage thing only applies to park models. It has to be less than 400.

Speaker 4:

Now, when you walk into a building department, you don't use the words tiny home ever.

Shed Geek:

Okay.

Speaker 4:

So, and I tell my customers, our customers, that right out, right out of the gate, when you walk into that permit office, do not use the word tiny home. And the reason is most actual building departments. When they hear that word tiny home, they're thinking of the park models, the tiny homes on wheels that are built to RV status or HUD status. They definitely don't like the ones built as an RV for a permanent living structure. But that's immediately where their mind goes when you say tiny home. I learned that one the hard way.

Mike Yoder:

That's sort of like and that's a little bit back to my point.

Arlan Riehl:

Like you've gotten RV the things out here in the parking lot. It serves a purpose and it does what it needs to do. But taking something that's built to that and now saying I'm going to live in it and create a permanent living spot and expect to see things appreciate like you do in a lot of other home settings, or to expect you're going to have minimal maintenance issues or to make it last, you're asking for something entirely different than what the thing is made to do.

Shed Geek:

Is this? Well, yeah, you first saw. I would sort of a credit that tiny home movement to initially television fame where it was a 150 square foot, 200 square foot, something mobile, something on wheels constantly. And maybe that was like where new technology or new ideas and creativities just are sort of out ahead of the legal process. Hello shed sellers. Let's take a moment to discuss the shed customer and meeting their expectations.

Arlan Riehl:

I think that it was mostly branding, because those products have existed in other forms forever not forever, but for a long time. Like you said, we have had campers. There's been campers around for quite a while. There's been mobile homes, single-wides, double-wides. They've been around Like let's make the thing look a little bit different and call it something different and make a TV show about it.

Shed Geek:

Yay, it's all something new. Yeah, that definitely. Well, it's not really. Yeah, you're right on it's.

Mike Yoder:

Don't forget container homes.

Arlan Riehl:

It did definitely have some creativity to it, but it was again. That's just my opinion.

Shed Geek:

Sort of reparketing the same.

Arlan Riehl:

It felt like a repackaging or a remarketing, yeah, something that already existed. I was going to say a comment about lipstick on a pig, but I won't. Is that sort of, as you just said?

Shed Geek:

Is that sort of like yeah, because of like I don't know, it's a reflection of society like do something different, be different, don't conform, have so like that creativity come out. My mind goes immediately whether I'm chasing a rabbit trail or not here. Like, my mind goes to like the video I saw of like one of the new Teslas where an officer pulled like a guy over and he was like confused by the car because technology had advanced past, like his understanding, and all of a sudden he's like you're doing something wrong. But I don't know what you're doing wrong.

Shed Geek:

I just know that what you're doing is not like what everyone else is doing so it's naturally, and he's like asking questions and the next thing you know. He's like getting educated because the technology was so advanced and like maybe that's not what we're doing with tiny homes or cabins or livable structures that come out of the shed industry. But in some ways it is like it's like the government's trying to play catch up to like the business world as usual. Right, I mean, that's oh for sure.

Speaker 4:

For sure, and we run into that occasionally, even in the city that I live in For two to three years they had a moratorium in place where any living structure had to be at least 750 square feet. So they just threw that out there, trying to blanket tiny homes and wheels whatever it may have been, when, in fact, code actually allows. I think the smallest living space that you can build to code is about 180 to 200 square feet but they didn't understand right. So it took a couple of years for them to get educated, as you were mentioning, on code, what they're going to allow and so forth. And there's I still run into building departments that they look at a blueprint that will send them. It'll be stamped everything.

Speaker 4:

Oh, it's not big enough? Well, it is, but they have a Some of the tiny home rules and regulations. They have different size limitations, and so when they see a really small modular home, they just throw it in that category. So then we have a conversation of well, this is what it actually is. It is built in a very different way. It might be smaller, but it is built in a way that is indeed permitted by code.

Shed Geek:

Do you think that this is all part of a bigger conversation about affordable housing? Or do you think that this is part of a conversation of man I don't have a good word for it on affordable housing that one works perfect, but otherwise it's like a second home, or it's like excess, it's like extra, it's like we want something that's on the lake. We got a pond, we got a little place here, whatever Airbnb it or whatever. Do you find that, like, as you guys acquire customers, like one takes the demand over the other, we just we're just looking for affordable housing or, hey, we're just looking for a second home.

Mike Yoder:

It's, I don't know. I would say there's a very low percentage of our customers that are buying our homes because it's more affordable housing.

Shed Geek:

So probably these are folks who.

Mike Yoder:

How do you define affordable? Because I can sell you a hundred thousand dollar house, but it's not going to be affordable. It's going to be very big. You'll have one bedroom and a bathroom and a kitchen. You can go buy a single wide for the same price. That's three bed, two bath. So which one is really more affordable?

Shed Geek:

Are they competitive on like a square foot compared to like traditional housing that you would see in the area?

Mike Yoder:

With a square foot price? No, yeah, no, because you're taking all the components of a home and squishing it down into a really small space, the square foot price goes bonkers.

Arlan Riehl:

Yeah, so when you're espresso or coffee, yeah.

Mike Yoder:

Do you want it in a mug or a to go cup?

Arlan Riehl:

No, I just mean you're making. You have the exact same amount of coffee present and you just add water.

Shed Geek:

Yeah.

Arlan Riehl:

The bigger home is just like square foot, like that's cheap.

Shed Geek:

Well, just wonder, because so many people that's in that, in between that we talked about from. I mean there's even Facebook groups. I mean you guys have probably seen like the shed to house Facebook private groups.

Arlan Riehl:

So it's like 60,000 members or something. Oh, it's very entertaining.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, but there's the, there's the people that's in between that modular versus just a shed, and like I just wonder, are there areas to get the education that you guys have went through to get? So it not only helps the customer but it even helps other people in the industry. Not to make that mistake, or what I'm always worried about is like and I don't know why I worry maybe that's that's the wrong word but a small concern is that, like the industry gets misrepresented somehow.

Shed Geek:

I mean I always think about that through, like the repo videos and stuff like that. I feel like if we present a positive image, like in everything that we do, it just benefits us all.

Shed Geek:

So, if you can kind of get everybody on that like, like, otherwise you set the expectation sometimes with those videos that people feel like they are able to act that way because it's the acceptable way to act and it's like no, that's, we don't actually want to heighten that. So it's the same way with, like, tiny homes. I'm like maybe I don't have business talking on it because I don't understand it, but I'm trying to understand it more and I bet those who are building they're they're getting customers come in all the time. That's like, can you turn these things into a home? Or for you guys and I've already seen it while I was here, including a sale we're just waiting for the Dixie Hazard Horn to go off any minute now.

Shed Geek:

But um and and someone comes in says, hey, I want to know more about these tiny homes you got down here. I guess what I'm trying to ask is like how do you better educate people? Like what's the process? Like, yeah, listen to this podcast, but do you call up Mike and Arlan and it's what starts.

Arlan Riehl:

I mean any any learning starts with a foundation of the realization that not everything might be the way that you initially think that it is, and asking questions. So, like, somebody who wants a tiny home will ask questions about what they're actually after. What is it that they want? And if it is a there's, there's places for the, the homes that I talked about earlier. It's just not everybody, and I don't think it's everybody, who thinks that that's what they want. So you have to start by asking questions and that's I don't know. That's just a generic statement.

Shed Geek:

I guess Is the is the customer acquisition time harder? I mean, if you're building a home traditionally like, you've really got to go in through the planning process a lot with those customers.

Mike Yoder:

Oh yeah, chase and I were actually talking about that just this morning. Like what's the minimum amount of time that we need from the time that we first get a deposit from a customer until we can actually start building and it's? And if it's a finance deal, we need three months. If it's a cash deal, if they're just writing a check for it, then two months was is plenty of time. And a shed we can sell a shed, build a shed and deliver that shed in three days if we need to.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, that's the the part that I remember. That was always kind of why the conversations were always so heightened around the idea of RTO, because it was like you really, with finance and customer acquisition time, you have the time to really go through it with the customer. But with a impulsive buyer who comes in to buy a shed and they've got, of course, they've got their mindset on I'm going to finish it out myself or whatever it is, all they really wants to get to the number is really quick and just you don't have time a lot of times to go through that contract or try to be, you know. So I'm curious what do you guys feel like is the demographic for those who are shopping up?

Shed Geek:

We kind of touched on that already with like, like second home or affordable home, but like, are these no-transcript? Are these folks that are? They see the value in, in what you're doing, because there's so much more work inside of what's done than just the shell, and they like the craftsmanship. Is this, uh, retired couples, you know? Are these first time home buyers? Mixture of all?

Speaker 4:

Man, that's a great question and it's definitely a mixture of all. I would say our highest percentage is going to be folks looking for an Airbnb. Um or a second home with some, yeah, but highest, highest number is some kind of a rental Um, right behind that is a secondary home, vacation home, a lake house, something like that. Um, I would say, third is going to be primary.

Speaker 4:

Um, we, we have quite a few folks that you know purchase for a primary house and, uh, we're right now I'm seeing a a big uptick in people purchasing them for a mother, father, in-law, something like that. Um, what what they're wanting to do is they're taking the money that they would spend on a retirement home, putting that into a small house that they can put in the backyard or really close. You know that that individual still has the dignity of their own place, their own thing, to take care of, something that's still theirs but close enough to you know, a son or a daughter where they can be taken care of and looked after. Um, definitely have seen a a rise in that here in the last, I would say, six months or so. Just recently we set one up for a young couple first house just getting started. They canceled their mobile home order.

Mike Yoder:

Yes, single-eyed. Interesting enough, cancelled that order and bought one from us, yep.

Shed Geek:

Nice, so it's not just grainy flats.

Mike Yoder:

It's actually first time home buyers, actually, and it's going to be interesting to see where all that goes, because this here we actually started offering multiple section homes, um, so now we're not stuck to a 15 by 52 box.

Shed Geek:

Yep. We can can add to it.

Mike Yoder:

We get creative and there's a lot of ways to do that, and we actually, just an hour ago, I had a deposit come in for the biggest house we've ever built, so that's going to be right at. I saw that 1600 square feet.

Shed Geek:

Wow.

Mike Yoder:

It's going to be three bed, three bath. Yes, yep. It's going to be pretty sweet, yeah, and so we're building a premium home that you saw them Like. The finish is the material that we're using, the fixtures and everything that you can choose Like. It's not stuff that you just go to lozen by it's, it's the good stuff. And people come in and they see that and apparently they're willing to give us money for a big house too. So we'll see where that piece of it goes.

Shed Geek:

You guys think this will be a big part of Westwood and your brand and your vision. Moving forward is in the in the cabin and the home space.

Mike Yoder:

Absolutely. Chase is here to drive that and he has big motivation.

Speaker 4:

That's right. I told Mike and Arlan a long time ago they got to keep me out of the door if they want to get rid of me. I'm not going anywhere. I'm. I am here for the long haul Love, what we do, and still blown away every day by the I don't know just the market that we've ended up in and the customer that we're serving and the demand that's out there that we're seeing.

Shed Geek:

It's interesting, like one year over the next, to continue to watch and I call it the shed industry but really just the different avenues and arteries that people are getting into, watching them expand. I mean, we're doing a podcast over greenhouses tomorrow and I think you know, and I'm like you know, that people say what's that got to do with the shed? It's like, more than you know, you know chicken coops, I mean play sets, I mean even the steel structures, like they have a conversation, they have room for a con, a conversation constantly in and around sheds, because a lot of them compliment each other and there's always this, it's always looming in the room to have the conversation about these other things play sets, furniture, you name it. It's sort of I don't know. Maybe it should have been called construction geek instead of just sheds.

Shed Geek:

It seems like it's, you know, post frame and like I've went to the NFBA shows the last couple of years, I'm just impressed by like what these guys do and then that's got it.

Shed Geek:

So, remarketing stuff, like with tiny homes, because now you get this part of many of and like all the stuff that goes along with that, and people are really finding a way to sell and meet customers, sort of where they are and what they're wanting and their demands, and I think the shopping process is different. You guys is like is e-commerce I don't think e-commerce would even like make sense for, like the cab inside of like no one's going to just call you up and be like, yep, buying the homes in any of the money.

Mike Yoder:

There's a certain amount of time, customer acquisition that has to happen there, right, We've had a few that called in and gave me a credit card number on that first conversation, but they usually end up canceling.

Shed Geek:

You think they just don't understand the process. They don't, like, they're just ready to go. You know what I mean? I went and looked at the shed lot and, like these guys do it, you know, on a whole different level, so they don't understand. Like you're like no, no, no, no, no. I remember selling it a shed one time that someone was wanting to live in and I'm, you know, encouraging them not to take it over and over. I'm at the point where I'm trying to not sell them a shed, really, because I don't think they understood what they were getting into. And unfortunately, it was one of the situations where it was sort of a negative thing, where and that delivery turned into a negative aspect later. You know, gosh, I don't know. I think it's an education thing. I think it all comes back to if we can educate people and that seems to be what you guys are doing. So you guys offering classes on the, on the, to the shed industry, is what you're doing?

Speaker 4:

We're busy building homes and sheds.

Shed Geek:

It seems like there's a. There's room there for somebody to step in and occupy the space.

Mike Yoder:

We do love when people come to visit because we are out in the middle of nowhere so we're not in the middle of all the action. So if people can come to us and we get to hang out and see what's going on in the broader industry shed, industry homes or whatever it is, we love hanging out with people having lunch, so all they got to do is call you up and and make it happen Real quick.

Shed Geek:

There's probably so much more we could talk about. I know you guys are doing something cool for your guys here at the office today, so we're a little limited on time so we're going to get out of here, but I did want to do offer the same thing I've been offering to all of my guests for like the last 10 or 12 shows. Some of them haven't even aired yet, most of them haven't but giving you a chance to sort of turn the microphone around just at the end of the interview here and see if you have any questions for me. The shed geek from a personal podcast, shed related anything, you name it, something you're curious about. Just incomplete transparency, uh, transparency and being an open book, um conversation, giving my thoughts on anything, any thoughts at all that come to mind? If not, it's not not required, just curious if you have any questions.

Arlan Riehl:

You got the pink suspenders and the pink bow tie on instead of the black, and I think I know what that's about.

Shed Geek:

But tell us, yeah, the pink suspenders. Uh, this is we're technically in October, um, and this is breast cancer awareness month and we know what that means all too well. So, even if this episode doesn't air until November, december, or we rush it in, whatever we we figure out, um doing that as an awareness, um, we we believe, me and my wife that and when it's been proven that early detection is definitely the key, um, we were lucky enough to catch um her breast cancer at a stage two was very aggressive.

Shed Geek:

The tumor grew, doubled in the size of a week from the time that we actually, uh, did the the initial testing to and then and then yeah, it was just during COVID there was a whole other host of like things that we had to navigate through, but I couldn't encourage uh ladies more to. You know, uh, my wife would tell you and I need to get her on here to do that, um, but get your inspections for sure. Inspections.

Arlan Riehl:

It's not the right word is it.

Shed Geek:

Go to your doctor. Go to your doctor. Early detection.

Arlan Riehl:

We get it, it's okay, it's okay.

Shed Geek:

Just for me, it makes sense it's your get yourself inspected. Yeah, uh, but it is the, it is the key, and we were lucky enough for God to take us through that journey. And kudos to my wife because she didn't complain. Like man I would have been the biggest whiner the whole time like why me and and all this, and that's okay if that's what you have to do, but, man, she was solid as a rock, so yeah, and the last time you guys were here, she was here and it was during treatment during treatment.

Arlan Riehl:

Yeah, it's looking a lot better today and it's good to see that.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, yeah. God has done some really amazing things through that process and relationships that you just can't manufacture through that. So, yeah, that's why the pink suspenders and Mike anything come to mine.

Mike Yoder:

I don't think so. I got that fishing trip on my mind.

Shed Geek:

Oh, you better get to it then, let's. Let's wrap up here. Chase, you got anything?

Speaker 4:

I just want to make sure you're educated on tiny homes before you leave.

Shed Geek:

I'll tell you what. I'll spend as much time as necessary. I would love to know more about tiny homes and, who knows, maybe I went and I went ahead and bought the tiny home podcast domain. So who knows, maybe, probably won't happen, but I bought it anyway. So, uh, listen, uh, one of you guys want to pray us out of here. There's so many good things to talk about, but you guys got fishing today, so you know, since, to keep on talking about sheds, hey, hey, not sheds, homes, homes sheds and homes.

Speaker 4:

I need you pretty quick on this, You're all you guys are top notch, like if.

Shed Geek:

I feel like it's good to acknowledge that publicly you guys are really from the top down. You guys are, if anybody's getting in the shed industry and they're just curious and the home building industry. However, it works out. Um, reach out to these guys. You're not wasting your money to drive here, fly here and pick these guys brains and they are. They are open to like being able to increase the industry and they know that. I think that happens through knowledge and conversation. So highly encourage you to be here. Um, second to none organization right here.

Speaker 4:

Appreciate that it means a lot.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, Arlan, you want to pray us out of here? Yes, all right.

Arlan Riehl:

Thanks, shannon, I really enjoyed it again.

Shed Geek:

Yes.

Arlan Riehl:

God, thank you for this time together. Thank you that you have created us in a way that connection to people means a lot. Thank you for the people that you put in our lives that help us uh see you and help us grow, that help us uh know what life's all about. Bless Shannon and the work that he's doing here, here, and the people he visits and gets around and sees. Bless our guys that are working with safety. We want to honor, glorify you today, jesus name, amen.

Shed Geek:

Amen, thank you guys, appreciate it so much.